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  1. #31

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    They presented that possibility in Batman Beyond where Barbara was explaining to Terry how it happened.

  2. #32
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    Maybe they aged her up in this version. I hope they aged her up in this version. Because otherwise this is seriously creepy.

  3. #33
    Incredible Member Den's Avatar
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    You know, being a silly old perv myself sometimes, I am perfectly okay with superheroes having sex lives. I even understand the urge to ship a little.

    BUT... not if it hurts the story. And I'm not sure this doesn't do just that. Now, confession time, I think I read the Killing Joke... once, and that was a long time ago. But part of the complaint is that spoilers:
    Barbara is crippled chiefly as a means to motivate Batman..
    end of spoilers with little attention paid to her as a person. Okay, so Barbara has sex with Batman in the film version... and the claim is that it is on her terms and this makes her 'strong'. Frankly, I would hope that any romantic relationship between two folks would be on "their" terms... I've always been raised to believe that was the healthiest way.

    But in a way, it seems to me to risk hurting both Barbara and Bruce...
    Before, Batgirl was a peer, a fellow crime fighter. Now, as a romantic partner... it makes it seem like Bruce is more motivated by selfish reasons when he goes after the Joker. We all want to protect our SOs, our lovers... that's human, but the further away someone is involved in us, the more heroic it is to lend them aid. The Good Samaritan is so noble because he helped a stranger he didn't even know, not because he helped his girlfriend. So oddly, to me at least, it seems less noble, less selfless for Batman to be on the case when it involves his paramour.

    And on Barbara's side... I wonder if, despite the comment how she's 'stronger than the men' it's going to come across as 'my boyfriend's back and you're gonna be in trouble... hey nah nee nah' while she cheers (Okay, lays in a hospital bed) on the side while Batman saves the day.

    It's a Batman (And Jim Gordon) story... he should save the day. But my point is, I think the romance actually makes a common complaint about that story worse, not better.

    Am I making any sense? Anyway, all the above is just my rambling opinion
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  4. #34
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    I agree. "Controversy " what a stupid reason to do anything. Why oh why do they let Azrello near anything DC. Isn't the damage he did to Wonder Woman enough. The man is dangerous to superheroes. Let him go create his own heroes and leave ours alone

  5. #35
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Den View Post
    You know, being a silly old perv myself sometimes, I am perfectly okay with superheroes having sex lives. I even understand the urge to ship a little.

    BUT... not if it hurts the story. And I'm not sure this doesn't do just that. Now, confession time, I think I read the Killing Joke... once, and that was a long time ago. But part of the complaint is that spoilers:
    Barbara is crippled chiefly as a means to motivate Batman..
    end of spoilers with little attention paid to her as a person. Okay, so Barbara has sex with Batman in the film version... and the claim is that it is on her terms and this makes her 'strong'. Frankly, I would hope that any romantic relationship between two folks would be on "their" terms... I've always been raised to believe that was the healthiest way.

    But in a way, it seems to me to risk hurting both Barbara and Bruce...
    Before, Batgirl was a peer, a fellow crime fighter. Now, as a romantic partner... it makes it seem like Bruce is more motivated by selfish reasons when he goes after the Joker. We all want to protect our SOs, our lovers... that's human, but the further away someone is involved in us, the more heroic it is to lend them aid. The Good Samaritan is so noble because he helped a stranger he didn't even know, not because he helped his girlfriend. So oddly, to me at least, it seems less noble, less selfless for Batman to be on the case when it involves his paramour.

    And on Barbara's side... I wonder if, despite the comment how she's 'stronger than the men' it's going to come across as 'my boyfriend's back and you're gonna be in trouble... hey nah nee nah' while she cheers (Okay, lays in a hospital bed) on the side while Batman saves the day.

    It's a Batman (And Jim Gordon) story... he should save the day. But my point is, I think the romance actually makes a common complaint about that story worse, not better.

    Am I making any sense? Anyway, all the above is just my rambling opinion
    This is exactly my problem with it. It's something completely unnecessary to add to this adaption and doesn't add anything positive to Barbara's character other then making what happens to her even more problematic while furthering Batman's "Man-pain."

    And even if that weren't the case...it would still be kind of icky and creepy thing to put in there for a lot of reasons.

  6. #36
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    Am I supposed to be surprised by this? It's not like the DC Animated stuff hasn't done this before coughDCAUcough.

    When they said that they were adding more plot to Babs role in the story (which I was all for), I was hoping that it be something besides this.

    The dumbest part is them flat-out admitting that they did it because "they like controversy." TKJ is already a controversial-enough story as it is, especially the Barbara parts. Oh and the controversial stuff there was sex/assault-related. So your big addition to her character, is more controversial sex stuff (just in a different capacity), brilliant (not).

    Just going out of your way to tick lots of fans off is baffling to me.

  7. #37
    Incredible Member kivatt's Avatar
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    Maybe DC just hates Alan Moore.


    Y'all better trap it out the bandwidth

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Nite-Wing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    Maybe they aged her up in this version. I hope they aged her up in this version. Because otherwise this is seriously creepy.
    Well they are both obviously adults
    Babs is not a teen in this from the gif alone
    She has her job as a librarian in this movie too so she should be at her pre crisis age and not super young.

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Antagonizing a fanbase on purpose is just douchebag behavior. And I have no doubt that's the only reason this happened. "Controversy" as its used here is just another word for making people mad for the sake of making them mad. Because the laughable justification they stated shows that absolutely no thought went into doing this to make the story nor the character better. Just to rile people up.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 07-23-2016 at 08:56 AM.
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  10. #40
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  11. #41
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    That's nowhere near a good-enough justification for me. You want to show how "strong" a character she is and her overcoming this horrible thing that happens to her, I have no problem with that. Heck I welcome it.

    But if your brilliant plan to show how "strong" she is as a character is "have her start sleeping with Batman," then they and I have different definitions of that term.

    And no, I'm not opposed to have sexuality in these films in-general. I was fine with the Deadshot/Harley sex scene in AOA (actually it was hilarious imo) for example. Nor am I opposed to Barbara having a sex life. But THIS, this was awkward and off-putting the first time around and it does nothing to make her a "stronger character."

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Am I supposed to be surprised by this? It's not like the DC Animated stuff hasn't done this before coughDCAUcough.

    When they said that they were adding more plot to Babs role in the story (which I was all for), I was hoping that it be something besides this.

    The dumbest part is them flat-out admitting that they did it because "they like controversy." TKJ is already a controversial-enough story as it is, especially the Barbara parts. Oh and the controversial stuff there was sex/assault-related. So your big addition to her character, is more controversial sex stuff (just in a different capacity), brilliant (not).

    Just going out of your way to tick lots of fans off is baffling to me.
    It would've been enough, in my opinion, just showing her active and heroic as Batgirl, and that's what I thought they were going for.

    Now they're doing something that arguably makes both Barbara and Bruce look bad before we go into the actual Killing Joke stuff.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Azzarello has issues writing strong female character or at least that is how I'm beginning to read his work now. Between this and new 52 Wonder Woman I'm really going to think hard before buying any story with a female lead he writes. And I know a lot of people liked new 52 WW, but to me it had a lot anti female subtext to it.

  14. #44
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    I normally detest outrage culture and I think Killing Joke is a fine story. In theory, I don't even have a problem with Batman and Batgirl sleeping together - they're both adults.

    But this completely changes and ruins the story on a fundamental level. This is so, so, so stupid. Biggest mistake they possibly could've made. The fact that they actually admit they did it solely to add more controversy is the cherry on top. Will not be buying or watching this. It sucks because DC has been making so many right moves for awhile now. I wonder what Alan Moore is thinking about this. I'm done with Azzarello and Bruce Timm has used up the last of my goodwill. Dude's kind of a creep.

  15. #45
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    Well I know that Moore has expressed regret at Barbara's treatment in the original story (and DC's apparently very flippant/dismissive attitude towards it as well). So, I don't think that he'd be a fan of this idea. He might not outright detest it (I mean there is lots of sex in his work, including creepy/awkward sex). But with THIS story in-particular, IDK.

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