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  1. #76

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    Everyone I talk to is upset that a fictional female is used as a plot device in this story (even though thousands of males are used as plot devices in these type of stories and no one bats an eye; what, do you just not want any woman to ever get caught in the cross-fires between two males, even if that is what feels natural for the story, because of your own personal hang-ups?) and that these scenes just enhance that or whatever, but I'm only upset that, well..... it's just wrong. In the original story, the characters actually acted like themselves but this.... Batman would never do this. Never. It's just so absurd, I can't wrap my mind around it.

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by justinslot View Post
    Ugh Bruce Timm:



    He's going back to the frigging camp Adam West show to justify his ongoing Bruce/Babs fanficcing.
    Yeah........ to think I used to like him, smh. Now I'm ashamed to even look his way.

  3. #78
    Fantastic Member justinslot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unfinishedsentenc View Post
    Yeah........ to think I used to like him, smh. Now I'm ashamed to even look his way.
    Oh I'm still fond of him, or his earlier work. This thing appears to be a clusterfudge, though.

  4. #79
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    He's good overall. But like pretty much every writer, he ain't perfect. He has his weak points just like most of them do, and this is one such weak point.

  5. #80
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    I agree with Timm.
    I hate this new fan culture of lashing out at anything that is different and new just because it not the norm they are used to. That is the whole freaking point. No writer wants to come in and tell the same old stories again and again and again and again and again and so on. There is only so much you can do with tired old Batcat or dickbarb or whatever. I hated the Burnside abomination which I thing is the worst thing that happen to Batgirl since the killing joke. It completely downgrade and stripped her of important growth over the decades yet I didn't act like DC/writers didn't have the right to tell their stories or acted like they personally assulted my family or something. The overaction is ridiculous like always from the interenet.

    Batman is overexposed and overused, I'm glad some writers are willing to take chances and give us something different even if I may not like whatever they come out with (not really bothered by Bruce/Barb). It beats getting the same old tired dance for 7 odd decades of character relationships and dynamics over and over and over and over and over again.

    I'm not sure if exploring Bruce/Barb stuff was right for this venue though. It would have been better if they did new movie or comic for it. But it is a prologue and it really changes nothing about the TKJ story. Is all there as it was. People need to chill.
    Last edited by batalia; 07-23-2016 at 04:16 PM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinslot View Post
    Ugh Bruce Timm:



    He's going back to the frigging camp Adam West show to justify his ongoing Bruce/Babs fanficcing.
    He's gotta cling on to something lol. I like Timm, but not a fan of this relationship he wants to push.
    Superhero shows are trash

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batalia View Post
    I agree with Timm.
    I hate this new fan culture lashing out of anything that is different and new just because it not the norm they are used to. That is the whole freaking point. No writer wants to come in and tell the same old stories again and again and again and again and again and so on. There is only so much you can do with tired old Batcat or dickbarb or whatever. I hated the Burnside abomination which I thing is the worst thing that happen to Batgirl since the killing joke. It completely downgrade and stripped her of important growth over the decades yet I didn't act like DC/writers didn't have the right to tell their stories or acted like they personally assulted my family or something. The overaction is ridiculous like always from the interenet.

    Batman is overexposed and overused, I'm glad some writers are willing to take chances and give us something different even if I may not like whatever they come out with (not really bothered by Bruce/Barb). It beats getting the same old tired dance for 7 odd decades of character relationships and dynamics over and over and over and over and over again.

    I'm not sure if exploring Bruce/Barb stuff was right for this venue though. It would have been better if they did new movie or comic for it. But it is a prologue and it really changes nothing about the TKJ story. Is all there as it was. People need to chill.
    Dick and Barbara have never had a major romantic story in something outside of comics though. So acting like it is overused isn't true. I mean you can love the idea of Bruce and Babs hooking up for whatever reason like Timm, but it doesn't fix the problem that the Batgirl prologue was a bad story in this movie. It doesn't really show her as a strong character and doesn't hold up on its own and then makes the actual TKJ part of the movie feel completely separate. She comes across as an annoying teenager or some jilted lover looking for some validation from her authority figure in Batman. It sort of takes what is meant to be a Batman and Joker story and makes it more about Barbara when she wasn't meant to be a focus. Also the idea of trying to defend something because you disliked a completely unrelated story in Burnside seems really bizarre to me.

    I mean if you want Bruce to have other love interests there are plenty to choose from in comics that isn't a character that over the last few decades is more of a daughter figure to him, the actual daughter of his friend, and his ward's ex girlfriend.

  8. #83
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    Also the whole "well his romantic life might not be the most wise" thing isn't even "new or different." His two most famous love interests are Catwoman and Talia al Ghul (who both walk the line between good and bad a lot).

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Dick and Barbara have never had a major romantic story in something outside of comics though. So acting like it is overused isn't true. I mean you can love the idea of Bruce and Babs hooking up for whatever reason like Timm, but it doesn't fix the problem that the Batgirl prologue was a bad story in this movie. It doesn't really show her as a strong character and doesn't hold up on its own and then makes the actual TKJ part of the movie feel completely separate. She comes across as an annoying teenager or some jilted lover looking for some validation from her authority figure in Batman. It sort of takes what is meant to be a Batman and Joker story and makes it more about Barbara when she wasn't meant to be a focus. Also the idea of trying to defend something because you disliked a completely unrelated story in Burnside seems really bizarre to me.

    I mean if you want Bruce to have other love interests there are plenty to choose from in comics that isn't a character that over the last few decades is more of a daughter figure to him, the actual daughter of his friend, and his ward's ex girlfriend.
    I find it bizarre people see Bruce and Barbara like father and daughter but whatever suits them I guess. Not everyone sees things the same way. People don't have a hived mind. Fans need to stop acting like their views are the reality or fact. That is the problem with these overaction and lashing out from fans in Ghostbuster, hydracap and now this. Fans seems to develop very strong sense of entitlement and expect writers to write what they want like they are in a restaurant ordering food.
    Last edited by batalia; 07-23-2016 at 04:57 PM.

  10. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by batalia View Post
    I agree with Timm.
    I hate this new fan culture of lashing out at anything that is different and new just because it not the norm they are used to. That is the whole freaking point. No writer wants to come in and tell the same old stories again and again and again and again and again and so on. There is only so much you can do with tired old Batcat or dickbarb or whatever. I hated the Burnside abomination which I thing is the worst thing that happen to Batgirl since the killing joke. It completely downgrade and stripped her of important growth over the decades yet I didn't act like DC/writers didn't have the right to tell their stories or acted like they personally assulted my family or something. The overaction is ridiculous like always from the interenet.

    Batman is overexposed and overused, I'm glad some writers are willing to take chances and give us something different even if I may not like whatever they come out with (not really bothered by Bruce/Barb). It beats getting the same old tired dance for 7 odd decades of character relationships and dynamics over and over and over and over and over again.

    I'm not sure if exploring Bruce/Barb stuff was right for this venue though. It would have been better if they did new movie or comic for it. But it is a prologue and it really changes nothing about the TKJ story. Is all there as it was. People need to chill.
    I can think of thousands of story ideas for those tropes, each one of them new yet the same. That's the freaking point of comics for me; looking at what's been done before and thinking "Ok, how can I make this refreshing and engaging yet still keeping with the core essentials people are used to." Changing a character's basic traits or his or her personality (like this clearly does) ruins the fun and begs the question of where the point of no return is, of just how far can you really go until there's no more resemblance whatsoever.

    Else-worlds stories, of course, are a different matter.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batalia View Post
    I find it bizarre people see Bruce and Barbara like father and daughter but whatever suits them I guess. Not everyone sees things the same way. People don't have a hived mind. Fans need to stop acting like their views are the reality or fact. That is the problem with these overaction and lashing out from fans in Ghostbuster, hydracap and now this. Fans seems to develop very strong sense of entitlement and expect writers to write what they want like they are in a restaurant ordering food.
    Why do you find it bizarre? Outside of Timm's influences they have never been romantic with each other and Batman is generally an authority figure to her similar to her own father. What Robin is to boys Batgirl was created to be that for girls. For a while now she is generally put in the same category as the Robins in the Batman Family with Bruce operating as this father figure to all of them. Having her be with Dick (who is basically a son to Bruce) further makes her into a contemporary of Robin rather than Batman. Then you have animated series like Young Justice or The Batman which show her becoming Batgirl at an age even younger than what BTAS did. I guess you might think it is bizarre if you haven't followed any Batman related media in a long time maybe.

    Also I think comparing this to Ghostbusters or Hyrda Cap is completely missing the point. Ghostbusters was a shit movie that only came together because Sony was trying to cash in on a IP they had and they had no passion behind it. Hydra Cap is just the typical Marvel gimmick that everyone will forget about in a year. This movie was a passion project by many involved and they attempted to create a better story for Barbara to appeal to her fans to ease them into TKJ movie. They wanted to show how strong and capable she is in this prologue, but they failed at doing that and in some sense made it even worse.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Why do you find it bizarre? Outside of Timm's influences they have never been romantic with each other... ...
    On that note, Timm's influence on the Batman animated works is not that original when it comes to its women. He simply threw Barbara into the ever-expanding harem of love interests Bruce had in the DCAU.

    Babs can be legitimately grouped with the likes of Selina, Talia, Zatanna, Diana, and Andrea [Phantasm] with the exception that her relationship with Bruce was never genuinely explored in the cartoons like the others. It was just simply meant to be 'bad, embittering' and a deliberate wedge within the Batfamily.

    I suppose this film now remedies that problem, but then it also underscores how any Bruce/Babs exploration should have been a different movie and not hitched to TKJ which already had troubling themes for Barbara from the get go.

  13. #88
    Incredible Member Rakiduam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batalia View Post
    I agree with Timm.
    I hate this new fan culture of lashing out at anything that is different and new just because it not the norm they are used to. That is the whole freaking point. No writer wants to come in and tell the same old stories again and again and again and again and again and so on. There is only so much you can do with tired old Batcat or dickbarb or whatever. I hated the Burnside abomination which I thing is the worst thing that happen to Batgirl since the killing joke. It completely downgrade and stripped her of important growth over the decades yet I didn't act like DC/writers didn't have the right to tell their stories or acted like they personally assulted my family or something. The overaction is ridiculous like always from the interenet.

    Batman is overexposed and overused, I'm glad some writers are willing to take chances and give us something different even if I may not like whatever they come out with (not really bothered by Bruce/Barb). It beats getting the same old tired dance for 7 odd decades of character relationships and dynamics over and over and over and over and over again.

    I'm not sure if exploring Bruce/Barb stuff was right for this venue though. It would have been better if they did new movie or comic for it. But it is a prologue and it really changes nothing about the TKJ story. Is all there as it was. People need to chill.
    If he wants to do something different maybe he should stop doing adaptacion of previous stories. They guy is not aiming to originality, he is aiming to controversy

  14. #89
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    This is embarrassing. Soon we'll have to look for Batman comics in the Adult Books section.

  15. #90
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    I'm not completely opposed to Bruce/Babs but The Killing Joke is sure as heck not the right context for it. And the footage I've seen is the opposite of inspiring.
    FYBW: my Black Widow blog.

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