SDCC: "Batman: The Killing Joke" Screenwriter Explains Controversial Sex Scene

[Robotman]

I can't believe they found a way to hurt Babs even more in this story. Over the years I've started to hate this comic. Barbara getting stripped naked and photographed while she's helpless on the ground is just disgusting.

[Jabare]

Barbara is a prop in this movie and the extra 30 minutes just reinforced this.


lets just ignore Bruce having sex with someone old enough to be his daughter. Someone who is a good friends daughter, someone who is a love interest and occasional girlfriend to his adopted son.


Barbara gets crippled by the joker and sexually assaulted. From that perspective this is a terrible story for Barbara there isn't really anyway to spin this into a positive.

It's a great win for the deranged Joker and another feather in his cap, but at Barbara's expense.

[Punisher007]

It's astonishing that they took the most controversial/debated element of TKJ, and somehow made it WORSE!!

[neonrideraryeh]

Somehow adding extra screen time for the character actually gave her even less agency in this story. I never really had a big problem with Killing Joke before, but this seems like a screw you to everyone, to satisfy what is probably the only shipper of this grossness in the world.

[Cmbmool]

"The thing about this is that it's controversial, so we added more controversy,"

That may be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Remember this is the same writer that rebooted Wonder Woman for the new 52.

[Johnny]

Barbara gets crippled by the joker and sexually assaulted. From that perspective this is a terrible story for Barbara there isn't really anyway to spin this into a positive.

She is not sexually assaulted. After The Joker shoots her, he simply takes naked pictures of her to torment Gordon. It is never suggested that it was a sexual assault.

[batsgrayson]

She is not sexually assaulted. After The Joker shoots her, he simply takes naked pictures of her to torment Gordon. It is never suggested that it was a sexual assault.

Do you realize that sexual assault =\= Rape? Being stripped naked against your will counts as sexual assault.

[Jabare]

thanks for explaining so I wouldn't have to. I specifically said sexually assault not rape.

I'm not going to get into the whole was she raped or not. It's a fictional character and I could just do a million other things, but I'm always curious why some people are so adamant that she wasn't especially in the comics where it is pretty vague. Probably just because they don't want it to happen, even if the set up might further suggest it. Hell in the 2008 Joker comic he rapes Frost's wife, but no one ever want to talk about this.


Anyway this was never going to be a good story for Barbara no matter how you spin it, but it's ironic they managed to make things a little worse.

[Confuzzled]

So Azzarello is rapidly turning into Frank Miller 2.0 Only in Miller's case, nobody else was doing this with the popular and established characters when he wrote his stories, so his early work at least counted as fresh.

[Johnny]

Do you realize that sexual assault =\= Rape? Being stripped naked against your will counts as sexual assault.

Okay fine, so the argument is that horrible things should not be done to female heroes, because they are female heroes? Jason Todd is beaten to death and then blown up by The Joker, does that "victimize" or "objectifies" him as a means for Batman to go after Joker? If so, why does nobody say a thing about it, but using Batgirl as part of Joker's cruel games is for some reason unacceptable? I guess DC should never give Batman sidekicks again, because some villain might decide to use them against him. God forbid if Zsasz ever decides to go after Harper Row.

[DurararaFTW]

Okay fine, so horrible things should never be done to female heroes, because they are female heroes? Jason Todd is beaten to death and then blown up by The Joker, does that "victimize" or "objectifies" him as a means for Batman to go after Joker? If so, why does nobody say a thing about it, but using Batgirl as part of Joker's cruel games is for some reason unacceptable? I guess DC should never give Batman sidekicks again, because some villain might decide to use them against him. God forbid if Zsasz ever decides to go after Harper Row.

Barbara Gordon was not used a female hero in The Killing Joke at all. She was a female connected Batman, end of relevance, however distantly, her part in the comic didn't require her having any lines whatsoever. Your example does not hold up ar all. As bad as the Jason Todd's death comic was, he was allowed some measure of agency up till the point of his death. He did stuff, he was allowed to be Robin for a bit.

These days what happened in the killing joke generally would not happen to a prominent female hero. That is not a bad thing.

[Johnny]

Barbara Gordon was not used a female hero in The Killing Joke at all. She was a female connected Batman, however distantly, her part in the comic didn't require her having any lines whatsoever. Your example does not hold up ar all. As bad as the Jason Todd's death comic was, he was allowed some measure of agency up till the point of his death. He did stuff, he was allowed to be Robin for a bit.

These days what happened in the killing joke generally would not happen to a prominent female hero. That is not a bad thing.

Sure it's not a bad thing, I'm simply calling out the double standard for what it is. Jason really does nothing of significance in A Death in the Family. He is captured by Joker, beaten to death and blown up by him after the latter taunts Batman to come save him. Jason is every bit of a "victim" in that story as Babs is in TKJ. My example holds up well, you just don't seem to have the same problem with it as you have with what happens to Babs.

[Lady Nightwing]

Jason was smart enough to figure out his mom was still alive and find her and brave enough to try and rescue her. He died a hero. Babs was molested and shot.

[Johnny]

Jason was smart enough to figure out his mom was still alive and find her and brave enough to try and rescue her. He died a hero. Babs was molested and shot.

He didn't die a hero, he died a victim of Batman's nemesis, that Bats wasn't quick enough to save. Barry Allen died a hero, so did Superman. Both Babs and Todd suffered through horrible things that people for some reason don't see the same way, while if you look at the stories for what they are, both of them were used as victims by writers who meant to use them as victims in said stories. Case closed.

[DurararaFTW]

Sure it's not a bad thing, I'm simply calling out the double standard for what it is. Jason really does nothing of significance in A Death in the Family. He is captured by Joker, beaten to death and blown up by him after the latter taunts Batman to come save him. Jason is every bit of a "victim" in that story as Babs is in TKJ. My example holds up well, you just don't seem to have the same problem with it as you have with what happens to Babs.

They are both "victims". But Jason seeks out his death through his own actions as Robin. The entire story up till his capture does not have no significance because you say it does. Barbara on the other hand does not need to be Batgirl for the part she served, does not need to concious at all really.