Wonder Woman trailer from SDCC2016

[Powertool]

The thing is, Gunn's movie doesn't set the stage for the entire DCEU. Even if he completely does a 180 and makes Justice League fun, this is still the universe where Batman quoted Dick Cheney and used guns.

Well, that's a logical fallacy if I've ever seen one. I explicitly wrote that GotG is a great compendium of the things in the Marvel approach to movies I don't like but that can unfailingly be found in every MCU cinematographic installment, meaning that I find it to be the most representative movie out of them all. A thesis which finds indirect support in the fact that it turned a bunch of D-list characters into world-wide recognisable names almost overnight, a fact that definitely influenced the relative importance of the Guardians in the wider context of the franchise-spanning Infinity Gems storyline. And I have good reason to do that since, after more than a dozen movies, I know that there's very little (though not null) chance of a curve ball in the future of the Cinematic Universe.

Elevating Zack Snyder's movies to the role of representatives of the whole DCEU just because they were the first in chronological order is very unfair towards all the other directors who'll work in the sandbox that may have been established by him but where he definitely has no absolute control (or are you saying that he was the mind between Suicide Squad, just to name one?). Being the most representative always beats being the one who came first, otherwise, looking at the character's history, you'd never complain about Batman using guns.

And about him quoting Cheney, what can I say? Never really listened to the man's speeches so no way I can refute your point. I just know that the Batman I saw in BvS was like, a hundred times more bearable than the one starring in comic books in the late Nineties, especially the one featuring in JLA, where he came off as a sort of hybrid of Josif Stalin and Lavrentij Beria. How can anyone forget Tower of Babel, where his reaction to working in a team side by side with people like J'onn J'onzz, Diana and Wally West, people who thought him a friend or at least an ally, was to create a list of counter-measures to take them down if there were any need of it? When I first read that story I thought that the reason he wanted to have those plans was that was afraid the aforementioned heroes would've one day stopped putting up with his crap and decided to come after him! And what about that time when, all by himself, he kicked out Huntress of the JLA for not having killed Prometheus and the whole scene was framed as if he had been patiently waiting for even the weakest pretext to give her the boot and ruining her career as a superheroine? And those comic books were written respectively by Mark Waid and Grant Morrison! People I'd assume actually knew what they were doing.

You couldn't call the Marvel Cinematic Universe, as it were, "the Gunnverse" if you wanted to because James Gunn did not "start" Marvel's movies. Guardians Of The galaxy is like their 10th, 11th, or 12th movie. Zack Snyder's directed movies started it all.

There's a "huge" difference, between being an 11th movie and "starting" a franchise out and for someone to be pointing things out, as you have, it's amazing that you overlooked that or missed that or chose to ignore that.

I already answered to that in my reply to ImprobableQuestion but I think I'll get a bit deeper in my reasons here. The problem with elevating something that is part of a wider context as representative of the whole context is a logical fallacy because there are waaaay too many examples, not just in fiction, of the phenomenon known to the community of TvTropes as "early installment weirdness". By now the MCU has reached an acceptable degree of maturity that a single element of it can be taken out of it and used as a representative of the whole ensemble. The same cannot be said about the DCEU and it'll probably take at least five or six years before we get there. In the meantime, the end of Snyder's involvement in the franchise and other authors with different sensibilities entering it could very well take what was established in the beginning about the few characters introduced by Zack and reshape it in unexpected ways. After all, before Civil War I thought Captain America and Iron Man to be deep down people with a head firmly on their shoulders. How wrong I was proven!

[Powertool]

Wow, your first sentence beat me to it. I can't believe he made that comment, online no less, and had to have two people point out the error in his statement.

Sorry, I didn't know there were limitations on posting my honest opinion online.

But seriously what was so outrageous about it? Is it a mystery that Wally West's Flash title started under Mike Baron but today it's almost exclusively known for what Geoff Johns and Mark Waid did with the character? Or that most people are familiar with Ash as he acted in The Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness and would struggle recognising the rather bland final girl -- I mean, boy from The Evil Dead if it weren't for that unmistakable jawline?

[codystarbuck]

I found the WW1 setting to be an odd idea; but, I suspect they didn't want to go with WW2 to avoid comparisons with Captain America (in Hollywood thinking). Thing is, to me, it looked like they were trying to make WW1 look like the fighting was as dynamic as WW2. WW1 has always been a hard subject for Hollywood. The war lent itself to great tragic stories, like All Quiet on the Western Front, Gallipoli, and Paths of Glory, while the few attempts at doing action films were usually involving either the air war (Hell's Angels, Wings, Brown vs Richtofen, The Blue Max) or the desert fighting (Lawrence of Arabia, The Lighthorsemen, ANZACS, etc..). You do get a few oddities, like Zeppelin, with both aerial war, espionage, and a commando raid.

I have no real problem with them having WW's debut being in World War I, as it still gives her and the universe a history, and also keeps her out of the Justice Society, if they want to keep them as WW2 heroes (provided they ever use them in films or tie the films into the tv series continuities). I still think Lynda Carter should have a nice cameo in this (nothing has been revealed, to my knowledge). Heck, let her be Hera or Aphrodite, or even Athena (which would probably fit better, as a role model for WW. I think Hera would make for a more interesting cameo, with you seeing Godot reverently referring to her as "Great Hera," and Lynda giving her that trademark smile. Alternatively, you could have her be a suffragette and be someone who WW can admire.

[Vanguard-01]

I think they used WWI because Diana pretty much should've ALWAYS debuted in WWI. Marston used WWII because it was going on at the time he started writing. At that time, no one gave a crap about WWI anymore.

But WWI was the first ever truly global human conflict. Not only was it geographically massive, it was one of the biggest and most senseless wastes of human life in history.

Within Diana's mythos, this means WWI would undoubtedly have been a playground for Ares and his followers. It just seems weird to say that one world war happened in the world, with no known involvement by Ares, and it wasn't until the second world war that the situation got bad enough to warrant sending a champion like Diana into it.

[Punisher007]

Given her views on the world in BVS, I'm going with the idea the she starts out naively and idealistically trying to help. Which isn't bad in an of itself, but she doesn't all of the facts or information when she makes that choice. She assumes that she knows who the "good" side is and who the "bad" side is (perhaps the battle between the Amazons and German troops on the beach combined with Steve's own thoughts/comments help convince her of this).

But then when she actually gets involved, she realizes that things aren't quite as clear-cut/simple as she first believed and it has an effect on her (as does the sheer scale and senselessness of the carnage and destruction that WWI caused in general).

[Powertool]

Given her views on the world in BVS, I'm going with the idea the she starts out naively and idealistically trying to help. Which isn't bad in an of itself, but she doesn't all of the facts or information when she makes that choice. She assumes that she knows who the "good" side is and who the "bad" side is (perhaps the battle between the Amazons and German troops on the beach combined with Steve's own thoughts/comments help convince her of this).

But then when she actually gets involved, she realizes that things aren't quite as clear-cut/simple as she first believed and it has an effect on her (as does the sheer scale and senselessness of the carnage and destruction that WWI caused in general).

That would be a great idea! It dovetails quite flawlessly with the near-century of retirement Diana enjoyed before the events of BvS and introduces a neat element of complexity to the story. You know what would be even neater? A plot twist where both Falkenhayn (if the movie is pre-1917) for the German Army and Alexander Haig for the British one are revealed to have been pawns of Ares. Those men really were birds of a feather when it came to send wave after wave of young soldiers to the meatgrinder.

[companion]

I can't stop watching this trailer. I think it's amazing and I'll keep watching it an smiling.

I just wanted to follow up on something Borntohula and Nyssane were talking about earlier in the thread.

Would someone rewatch the trailer and see if I'm crazy? The line "Be careful, Diana. They do not deserve you" It seems like it runs together, but I think it's two different lines and two different characters.

The first part "Be careful, Diana," sounds like Hippolyta. (Connie Nielsen has a very specific Dutch accent.) The second line "They do not deserve you" sounds like an Irish accent. It sounds to me, like two different people.

Would someone let me know if it's just me?

[My Two Cents]

I love the scene where Wonder Woman is rising up from the fox hole
the music just makes all the more exciting and chilling (in a goose bumps kind of way)

[Vanguard-01]

I can't stop watching this trailer. I think it's amazing and I'll keep watching it an smiling.

I just wanted to follow up on something Borntohula and Nyssane were talking about earlier in the thread.

Would someone rewatch the trailer and see if I'm crazy? The line "Be careful, Diana. They do not deserve you" It seems like it runs together, but I think it's two different lines and two different characters.

The first part "Be careful, Diana," sounds like Hippolyta. (Connie Nielsen has a very specific Dutch accent.) The second line "They do not deserve you" sounds like an Irish accent. It sounds to me, like two different people.

Would someone let me know if it's just me?

I don't think it's just you. It DOES sound like two different voices. Not sure what to make of that just yet.

The one saying "They don't deserve you" could be one of Diana's aunts. Maybe Antiope. She has a history of being less benign than Diana's other Amazon role models. I've long suspected that she may eventually end up being revealed as a villain. Maybe that line is her trying to convince Diana to not go to Man's World because men aren't worth helping.

[Punisher007]

I kind of don't want her to be a villain. That'd be really predictable/cliché. I kind of want her to simply be "antagonistic" in the sense that she has a different philosophy and viewpoint from Hippolyta, and that causes disagreements at times.

[Vanguard-01]

I kind of don't want her to be a villain. That'd be really predictable/cliché. I kind of want her to simply be "antagonistic" in the sense that she has a different philosophy and viewpoint from Hippolyta, and that causes disagreements at times.

That would be my preference too. It's cool to show that Hippolyta isn't just surrounded by a bunch of yes-women who always agree with her and Diana. Making one outright evil isn't really necessary.

If they turn her villainous, then they should try to make it a case of "Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons." Antiope may not be full-on evil. But she may be convinced that Hippolyta is leading the Amazons down the wrong path and she takes action to protect them. She's wrong, of course, but she isn't doing what she does out of any sense of malice. Just misguided loyalty.

That would be the best way to handle that if it must be done at all.

[enish]

A collegue and friend of mine who is not so much into comic book movies and bsolutely hated BVS just told me that the Wonder Woman trailer really made him want to see the movie.
This kind of impact this has on people can be really motivating sometimes!

[Punisher007]

That would be my preference too. It's cool to show that Hippolyta isn't just surrounded by a bunch of yes-women who always agree with her and Diana. Making one outright evil isn't really necessary.

If they turn her villainous, then they should try to make it a case of "Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons." Antiope may not be full-on evil. But she may be convinced that Hippolyta is leading the Amazons down the wrong path and she takes action to protect them. She's wrong, of course, but she isn't doing what she does out of any sense of malice. Just misguided loyalty.

That would be the best way to handle that if it must be done at all.

Agreed. That could work, if the writing is good-enough. The question then is, do they let her redeem herself by the end of not?

[Herowatcher]

Well I can't say it was horrible.
DC could be waking it up, but it's still too soon to say.

A lot of potential here...and not a Snyder film (yeah!).

Still...don't like the fact it's during WWI and that Diana is carrying a sword and shield...and no single red star on that ridiculous tiara she's wearing too.

I did like that Zeus wasn't mentioned as "my daddy" (his name could still be edited out...hoping).
The best parts for me were at the beach in the beginning and the joke with Etta Candy at the end.
Also, good action moments here and there.

[Nyssane]

This site claims to have visited the set, and that the woman with the mask is indeed Doctor Poison.

It would be fitting that her first "super-villain" is the first one she ever battled way back in Sensation Comics #2.