Bruce Timm on Origins of 'Risky' Batman-Batgirl Sex Scene in "The Killing Joke"

[Deadxman]

Norman Osborn and Gwen Stacy having babies doesn't sound so crazy after this...

Dude it's Norman. He created a cure for Cancer and then turned it into a weapon

[Babs]

I don't know how old Babs is supposed to be in this movie but since she's a librarian I can at least assume she's in her mid 20s or older
Adults are still allowed to have sex last time I checked so the controversy seems really pointless
Timm may not have spoke well here references Bruce's parenting skills(really any sort of parental role should not be applied to him) but yeah the complaints really have no merit to them and should be ignored if you don't like the story don't watch.

If you strip it all the way down to just two adults having sex, than maybe it has no merit, but that is not the case here. There is a context here that makes it strange and disturbing. If Bruce Timm had decided that he was going to write his own stand-alone story exploring his ideas about the sexual tension between Batman and Batgirl, that would have been a whole different and much less controversial story. They deliberately added a pointless cheap controversy to an already highly controversial Batman story.

[kalorama]

If you strip it all the way down to just two adults having sex, than maybe it has no merit, but that is not the case here. There is a context here that makes it strange and disturbing. If Bruce Timm had decided that he was going to write his own stand-alone story exploring his ideas about the sexual tension between Batman and Batgirl, that would have been a whole different and much less controversial story. They deliberately added a pointless cheap controversy to an already highly controversial Batman story.

What context is that? Because despite people's attempts to spin it that way, Batman was never really a father figure to Barbara the way she was to Dick. He didn't raise her, she didn't grow up under his roof, he wasn't the one who shaped her morality and values. In most depictions, Barbara was already an adult the first time she even met Bruce Wayne or Batman face-to-face. The only real context here is that they were colleagues/friends who developed a romantic/sexual relationship, which happens all the time and is not inherently controversial.

[Babs]

What context is that? Because despite people's attempts to spin it that way, Batman was never really a father figure to Barbara the way she was to Dick. He didn't raise her, she didn't grow up under his roof, he wasn't the one who shaped her morality and values. In most depictions, Barbara was already an adult the first time she even met Bruce Wayne or Batman face-to-face.

The Killing Joke deals a major blow to the Gordon family. Now add "Speaking of going by the book, Jim, i should tell you, before Joker penetrated your daughter with a bullet, i did it with something else... giggity" to that.

The Killing Joke didn't need this extra bonus controversy, and after months of Timm & crew telling us they felt Barbara's role was problematic in TKJ and they were adding 30 mintes to the story devoted to her, fans of the character were expecting something better than some stupid rooftop sex scene that comes out of nowhere, and again, was put there for no other reason than more controversy.
What it shows to me is that Bruce Timm and crew are turning into typpical washed up has-beens, and this is exactly the kind of exploitation of controversy people in that stage of their career tend to come up with to get attention. The glory days of Batman Animated is now two decades ago, and they know it.

I mean, have you even looked at the film's animation? It really doesn't look like a lot of effort went into this beyond voice acting. I'm not just saying that to hate on it, it's really quite bad. Not terrible, but if you compare it to Mask of the Phantasm or even lower budget productions like Sub-Zero, it really doesn't look up to any of that quality.

I talked to my boyfriend about it, and he said this whole Killing Joke thing looks like the last convulsion of the overly dark and edgy storytelling of Batman, since both comics and film now seem to aim for lighter tones after the critical reception of BvS.

[anyajenkins]

What context is that? Because despite people's attempts to spin it that way, Batman was never really a father figure to Barbara the way she was to Dick. He didn't raise her, she didn't grow up under his roof, he wasn't the one who shaped her morality and values. In most depictions, Barbara was already an adult the first time she even met Bruce Wayne or Batman face-to-face. The only real context here is that they were colleagues/friends who developed a romantic/sexual relationship, which happens all the time and is not inherently controversial.

...even the guy who made it (and likes it) said there was a 'parental' relationship. Nobody had to reach for that...

I was borderline on this before, because killing joke not my favorite, but ugh, pass for sure .

[kalorama]

...even the guy who made it (and likes it) said there was a 'parental' relationship. Nobody had to reach for that...

I was borderline on this before, because killing joke not my favorite, but ugh, pass for sure .

But that's not actually what he said. So, yes, actually you did have to reach for that. Which is why I said Timm's using the phrase "parenting skills (which appears in single quotes within the larger quote, suggesting that Timm didn't mean for it to be taken literally) was a mistake.

[Babs]

But that's not actually what he said. So, yes, actually you did have to reach for that. Which is why I said Timm's using the phrase "parenting skills (which appears in single quotes within the larger quote, suggesting that Timm didn't mean for it to be taken literally) was a mistake.

"his 'parental skills' aren't that great" He did say this. If you're gonna try and twist this like this isn't exactly what it suggests, than you're reaching for it out of blind defense.

[master of read]

look, i dont have a problem with barb and bruce knocking boots. they both adults and they both made a choice to get nasty on the roof.

i just don't like timm's explanation about why it happened.

he should have just said "batman gotta bat-smash".

[Deadxman]

The way people are talking you'd think they rotoscoped the porn parody

[master of read]

also don't forget that, according to the wall, bruce was kind of a big slut when he was around.

[maxmcco]

The thing most defenders here aren't getting is that it isn't about whether or not she's 'legal'. Lot's of things are legal that are reprehensible. It paints Bruce in a negative light with his immediate rejection of her after they're together and it makes Barbara seem incredibly desperate afterwards. Remember, this is one of Bruce's best friend's daughter. To sleep with her and then immediately reject her?! Character assassination for two of my favourite heroes. Pass.

[MadFacedKid]

The thing most defenders here aren't getting is that it isn't about whether or not she's 'legal'. Lot's of things are legal that are reprehensible. It paints Bruce in a negative light with his immediate rejection of her after they're together and it makes Barbara seem incredibly desperate afterwards. Remember, this is one of Bruce's best friend's daughter. To sleep with her and then immediately reject her?! Character assassination for two of my favourite heroes. Pass.

I honestly don't see how this is ignored. The explanation suggest that the creator of this adaption see's Bruce as a parental figure for Babs to. It's kind of disgusting that he can say that as a reason for why Bats could have sex with a student (Babs). He's not the best parental figure? Really!? I agree with just because something is legal doesn't make it acceptable. If you see someone as a parent to another individual don't write them having sex.

[GlennSimpson]

Jesus Christ. Can you people stop acting like fictional characters and fictional events reflect a person's views? Oh my god. A female comic book character was killed! The author must be a misogynist. Characters are having sex! What a creepy perv!

It has nothing to do with the author's views. It's about continuing to promote the idea that women are just objects in men's stories. That's something that needs to stop, regardless of the intent of the author.

[joybeans]

I don't know how old Babs is supposed to be in this movie but since she's a librarian I can at least assume she's in her mid 20s or older
Adults are still allowed to have sex last time I checked so the controversy seems really pointless
Timm may not have spoke well here references Bruce's parenting skills(really any sort of parental role should not be applied to him) but yeah the complaints really have no merit to them and should be ignored if you don't like the story don't watch.

I didn't realize that the Killing Joke was not allowed to be criticized.

[mfactor]

Really disappointed in all involved who decided to include this in the movie. Just dont understand why they would put it in there. Its creepy. For those of you thinking its ok means u are ok with banging your friend's daughters when they come of age. That's creepy to me.