Titans #1 Preview

[MadFacedKid]

So it would seem, but we won't know the answers fully for 2 years.

They are playing the long game with this storyline. The intrigue and confusion over what is going on is part of the storyline. We're not supposed to fully be able to make sense of everything, or clarify what the end result will be yet.

Some people think this is pre-flashpoint Wally de-aged by the missing ten years, others think it's a new 52 Wally who gained memories of his pre-flashpoint life in the speedforce. And either could be correct at this point but again, no one can know for sure until rebirth is over.

2 years? Damn that's a long time to wait for the continuation of a story. Regardless I'm really curious to hoe they explain this continuity thing more then anything so I'm pumped.

[Vericc]

An interesting thing to note is that, in the recap of his life, Wally seems to have memories from BOTH pre-Flashpoint and post-Flashpoint backstories.

His memory of running alongside Barry includes Barry wearing the 'classic' Flash suit without the New 52 seams and 'armor'. But his memory of the Teen Titans shows us Dick wearing his New 52 Robin outfit as opposed to the classic version. And then his memory of being with Linda shows him as the Flash...something which only happened pre-Flashpoint.

It seems to me that Wally's memories are a mess right now. He vaguely remembers some key aspects of his pre-Flashpoint life (his career as the Flash, Linda etc.) while also having memories of the Teen Titans of the New 52 timeline. But we don't know how much he really remembers about pre-Flashpoint.

It would be interesting to see Wally run into the likes of Cyborg, Starfire or Raven. Would he remember serving alongside them on the New Teen Titans (an incarnation of the team that doesn't seem to have existed in New 52 history)?

Yeah I really want to know the extent to which wally's memories are remembered.

[Frontier]

An interesting thing to note is that, in the recap of his life, Wally seems to have memories from BOTH pre-Flashpoint and post-Flashpoint backstories.

His memory of running alongside Barry includes Barry wearing the 'classic' Flash suit without the New 52 seams and 'armor'. But his memory of the Teen Titans shows us Dick wearing his New 52 Robin outfit as opposed to the classic version. And then his memory of being with Linda shows him as the Flash...something which only happened pre-Flashpoint.

It seems to me that Wally's memories are a mess right now. He vaguely remembers some key aspects of his pre-Flashpoint life (his career as the Flash, Linda etc.) while also having memories of the Teen Titans of the New 52 timeline. But we don't know how much he really remembers about pre-Flashpoint.

It would be interesting to see Wally run into the likes of Cyborg, Starfire or Raven. Would he remember serving alongside them on the New Teen Titans (an incarnation of the team that doesn't seem to have existed in New 52 history)?

He reached out to Cyborg when he was trying to find a connection to hold his existence together, so he might still remember Vic being part of the Titans pre-Flashpoint.

[AcesX1X]

i really dislike lilith looking like a homeless person! i wish they would change her look asap!

[alton]

i really dislike lilith looking like a homeless person! i wish they would change her look asap!

Do what everybody does with the homeless just shake your head dispprovingly, step over them and walk away. Maybe the look is the point. God forbid the really disenfranchised should appear in the prissy over privileged world of the predominantly white Titans. With all the hoorah over Race and gender issues in the comics world you would think that people who have dropped through the cracks would become part of the Spandex landscape as well. Not that the rest of us aren't hovering on the brink when the next Depression hits.This is why I don't read crap like Titans/Teen Titans.

[GlennSimpson]

I *think* DC is trying to simplify things by making it seem like the effects of Flashpoint were not retroactive, like everybody just has forgotten what things were like pre-Flashpoint. Like that sequence where Wally is alongside the (new52 version) of the Titans (note Dick's costume) and then he's meeting Linda and then it all gets taken away. When, really, those two panels are reversed. He was with Linda "before" he was a new52 Titan (kinda-sorta).

So again, I think they are trying to move on from the Mr. Twister thing and just focus on Flashpoint/Dr. Manhattan. I can see where simpler is better, but obviously there are still a lot of comics fans trying to figure out how it works.

[Atlanta96]

Do what everybody does with the homeless just shake your head dispprovingly, step over them and walk away. Maybe the look is the point. God forbid the really disenfranchised should appear in the prissy over privileged world of the predominantly white Titans. With all the hoorah over Race and gender issues in the comics world you would think that people who have dropped through the cracks would become part of the Spandex landscape as well. Not that the rest of us aren't hovering on the brink when the next Depression hits.This is why I don't read crap like Titans/Teen Titans.

I think the issue is that she's not intended to look that way. Like, she's supposed to be a financially stable social worker and the look they gave her doesn't match up with her background. It's not a slight against the disenfranchised or anything.

Also, if you're not reading Titans you're missing out big time!

[Agent Z]

Do what everybody does with the homeless just shake your head dispprovingly, step over them and walk away. Maybe the look is the point. God forbid the really disenfranchised should appear in the prissy over privileged world of the predominantly white Titans. With all the hoorah over Race and gender issues in the comics world you would think that people who have dropped through the cracks would become part of the Spandex landscape as well. Not that the rest of us aren't hovering on the brink when the next Depression hits.This is why I don't read crap like Titans/Teen Titans.

May I ask exactly why you're commenting on this if you don't read Titans?

[sifighter]

I'm pretty excited for this, Wally West return was amazing in the Rebirth special and I can't wait to see where Abnett takes the Titans in the next two years.

[AcesX1X]

Do what everybody does with the homeless just shake your head dispprovingly, step over them and walk away. Maybe the look is the point. God forbid the really disenfranchised should appear in the prissy over privileged world of the predominantly white Titans. With all the hoorah over Race and gender issues in the comics world you would think that people who have dropped through the cracks would become part of the Spandex landscape as well. Not that the rest of us aren't hovering on the brink when the next Depression hits.This is why I don't read crap like Titans/Teen Titans.

she's not disenfranchised or dropped through the cracks. she's just got an awful costume design.

[GlennSimpson]

I *think* DC is trying to simplify things by making it seem like the effects of Flashpoint were not retroactive, like everybody just has forgotten what things were like pre-Flashpoint. Like that sequence where Wally is alongside the (new52 version) of the Titans (note Dick's costume) and then he's meeting Linda and then it all gets taken away. When, really, those two panels are reversed. He was with Linda "before" he was a new52 Titan (kinda-sorta).

So again, I think they are trying to move on from the Mr. Twister thing and just focus on Flashpoint/Dr. Manhattan. I can see where simpler is better, but obviously there are still a lot of comics fans trying to figure out how it works.

I just thought of something...what if Wally has become an unreliable narrator since he has been out of the Speed Force? In other words, what if Wally NOW thinks it was like this:

New52 for 2-3 years (he joins titans)
10 years of new52 (the period when he became the Flash and married Linda)
Dr. Manhattan steals those 10 years away.
Adjusted new52 without those 10 years.

What if (bear with me here), Wally is remembering a post-Flashpoint version of a 15-year new52 ?!?!?! That would explain why his earliest memories are starting to still resemble the new52.

In other words, Wally doesn't remember Dick ever wearing the short pants or Cyborg ever been a Titan. He just thinks that the new52 universe used to be 10 years longer than it currently is.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I just thought of something...what if Wally has become an unreliable narrator since he has been out of the Speed Force? In other words, what if Wally NOW thinks it was like this:

New52 for 2-3 years (he joins titans)
10 years of new52 (the period when he became the Flash and married Linda)
Dr. Manhattan steals those 10 years away.
Adjusted new52 without those 10 years.

What if (bear with me here), Wally is remembering a post-Flashpoint version of a 15-year new52 ?!?!?! That would explain why his earliest memories are starting to still resemble the new52.

In other words, Wally doesn't remember Dick ever wearing the short pants or Cyborg ever been a Titan. He just thinks that the new52 universe used to be 10 years longer than it currently is.

Obviously not given that he reached out to Vic in DCU Rebirth #1. He also remembers Barry and Iris's marriage. Ergo, his memories are of a time when Victor was a Titan and Barry was his uncle who presumably died while fighting Anti-Monitor (hence his ascension to the Flash mantle). On top of that, he's wearing his pre-New 52 Flash outfit. So it's safe to say, he's remembering the Pre-FP timeline. Because the Pre-FP timeline IS the New 52 timeline plus those 10 years. Dick wearing the pants is just because it's no longer favorable to portray teenage boys in tight speedos (which is understandable). All of the Titans probably had all of the same adventures as they did before FP, they just looked different doing it.

[bat39]

He reached out to Cyborg when he was trying to find a connection to hold his existence together, so he might still remember Vic being part of the Titans pre-Flashpoint.

Back when he was in the Speed Force, Wally DID remember his entire Pre-Flashpoint history. And once he emerges from the Speed Force, he starts to lose those memories (though he's able to hold on to a few, like Linda Park and the fact that he was the Flash apparently). This is made clear in the Rebirth special.

I just thought of something...what if Wally has become an unreliable narrator since he has been out of the Speed Force? In other words, what if Wally NOW thinks it was like this:

New52 for 2-3 years (he joins titans)
10 years of new52 (the period when he became the Flash and married Linda)
Dr. Manhattan steals those 10 years away.
Adjusted new52 without those 10 years.

What if (bear with me here), Wally is remembering a post-Flashpoint version of a 15-year new52 ?!?!?! That would explain why his earliest memories are starting to still resemble the new52.

In other words, Wally doesn't remember Dick ever wearing the short pants or Cyborg ever been a Titan. He just thinks that the new52 universe used to be 10 years longer than it currently is.

That's an intriguing theory, though I don't know if that's the case.

There's a larger issue here regarding cause and effect. Did Doc Manhattan mess with the Pre-Flashpoint DCU, making it the New 52 DCU? Or did he mess with some previous iteration of the Post-Flashpoint DCU (that was closer to the Pre-Flashpoint DCU) and make it into the New 52? While, to simplify things, it may well end up being the former, what the Rebirth special implied was the latter.

It seemed from the special that Barry did mess things up with Flashpoint, and while he was fixing them, Doc Manhattan interfered (through Pandora?). The question is - what would the world have looked like without Doc Manhattan interfering? Is the post-Flashpoint world that Barry 'originally' created the Rebirth universe? Is THAT the world Wally is remembering?

But things get even more confused by the fact that within the New 52 continuity, there's a reason for Wally's disappearance and people not remembering him, namely whatever happened with Mr. Twister (I haven't really read Titans Hunt). New 52 Wally never physically met Linda Park and was never the Flash...yet he remembers both vaguely from some half-forgotten life. So we've got memory wipe upon memory wipe and Wally's backstory within the context of the Rebirth universe is now as convoluted as Wolverine's...

And now my head hurts...

[GlennSimpson]

Back when he was in the Speed Force, Wally DID remember his entire Pre-Flashpoint history. And once he emerges from the Speed Force, he starts to lose those memories (though he's able to hold on to a few, like Linda Park and the fact that he was the Flash apparently). This is made clear in the Rebirth special.



That's an intriguing theory, though I don't know if that's the case.

There's a larger issue here regarding cause and effect. Did Doc Manhattan mess with the Pre-Flashpoint DCU, making it the New 52 DCU? Or did he mess with some previous iteration of the Post-Flashpoint DCU (that was closer to the Pre-Flashpoint DCU) and make it into the New 52? While, to simplify things, it may well end up being the former, what the Rebirth special implied was the latter.

It seemed from the special that Barry did mess things up with Flashpoint, and while he was fixing them, Doc Manhattan interfered (through Pandora?). The question is - what would the world have looked like without Doc Manhattan interfering? Is the post-Flashpoint world that Barry 'originally' created the Rebirth universe? Is THAT the world Wally is remembering?

But things get even more confused by the fact that within the New 52 continuity, there's a reason for Wally's disappearance and people not remembering him, namely whatever happened with Mr. Twister (I haven't really read Titans Hunt). New 52 Wally never physically met Linda Park and was never the Flash...yet he remembers both vaguely from some half-forgotten life. So we've got memory wipe upon memory wipe and Wally's backstory within the context of the Rebirth universe is now as convoluted as Wolverine's...

And now my head hurts...

That's kinda why I think DC is trying to simplify it, and suggest that what Wally knows is missing is actually missing new52 history, not pre-Flashpoint history.

But now that you bring it up, I can get behind the notion that because there were two different meddlers, there were two different results. So maybe Barry didn't really fix the universe completely - he turned it into a 15-year new52.

Then Dr. Manhattan yanked 10 years out of that, and created the 5-year new52. This explains a lot:

1. How stealing 10 years could change the nature of Krypton and put the Demon Knights into the Middle Ages. If we assume that Barry could create the Flashpoint world, it's not hard to see where he could retroactively create a version of the new52. And then the ONLY change Manhattan makes is the theft of the 10 years and required de-aging that goes along with that. Which is why Wally is so focused on the 10 years.

2. It explains why Wally is mixing up pre-Flashpoint and new52 history in his monologues. It's because he's actually remembering stuff from the 15-year new52.

The downside for some fans in this case would be that Wally never actually remembered pre-Flashpoint...unless he did while he was in the Speed Force, but now that he is in the new52 his memories are altering to fit.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

That makes no sense. You're really trying to bend over backwards just to stay in denial that they're bringing back Pre-FP continuity.