Bruce Timm Weighs In On Implications Of "Killing Jokes" Sexualized Joker

[CBR News]

Timm discusses what the film says about Joker's sexuality, and its approach to the graphic novel's sexual violence.


Full article here.

[dan12456]

Is Timm a chronic liar? Those lines seem pretty dang intentional, not something you'd throw in just because. The fact you have a scene of Batman questioning prostitutes about the Joker implies it was relevant or why include it?

[KingsLeadHat]

I get the sense that DC is subtly attempting to troll Alan Moore but at this point...Alan Moore just doesn't care. Let's face it, making money aside, DC is filled with a lot of jilted creators who idolize Moore but were hurt by his dismissal of their talents and originality. Creatively at least, the joke is on them (oh how ironic) given that they're still mining so much of what Moore did and accomplished. It's even more amusing since Moore has said that he dislikes what he did in Killing Joke. American's Best Comics was a kind of atonement for his past sins. Only now, in 2016, is DC caught up to where Moore was at in 1999 with their Rebirth philosophy. Creatively, Moore is running away with this.

[LonestarF1]

I could maybe believe that Timm didn't think those lines meant what they did, but I absolutely believe they meant exactly how they sounded. I love Azzarello's work, but it's not the first time he's written a Joker with sexual desires that raped a women over the course of the story. If those lines aren't meant to remove the "Did he or Didn't he" from Joker's scene with Barbara, then the scene with the prostitutes has zero reason for existing at all. It's there to serve a purpose, simple as that.

That being said, I also don't believe he raped her in the original story.

[Bluebolt1967]

Hmm.. is it possible to be controversial just to be controversial? What's the reason for Batman and Batgirl having a relationship? Doesn't it just sound weird - "man" having sex with "girl"? Shouldn't they at least call her "Batwoman" to make it not sound so creepy? Isn't Batgirl about Robin's (Nightwing's) age? Seems like she would be ten years younger than Batman or more. Additionally, seems odd that Batman would have a relationship with Gordon's daughter. I don't know - I'm probably over-thinking things but I don't see how this extra part makes the story better but I can understand how it would creep people out.

[LonestarF1]

Hmm.. is it possible to be controversial just to be controversial? What's the reason for Batman and Batgirl having a relationship? Doesn't it just sound weird - "man" having sex with "girl"? Shouldn't they at least call her "Batwoman" to make it not sound so creepy? Isn't Batgirl about Robin's (Nightwing's) age? Seems like she would be ten years younger than Batman or more. Additionally, seems odd that Batman would have a relationship with Gordon's daughter. I don't know - I'm probably over-thinking things but I don't see how this extra part makes the story better but I can understand how it would creep people out.

To be fair, when the book was original released, Dick and Barbara were never really a thing. He had a bit of a crush on her, but she was a decent bit older. He was with Starfire for most/all of the 80s.

[Alkaidswrath]

They even have a line in the movie where Commissioner Gordon asks her if she remembers when the Joker first appeared in Gotham and she responds something like " Dad I was 6, just a little kid". Also she is the one who initiates the sex scene with Batman in the first place and he just kind of lets it happen.

[dan12456]

To be fair, when the book was original released, Dick and Barbara were never really a thing. He had a bit of a crush on her, but she was a decent bit older. He was with Starfire for most/all of the 80s.

To be fair, none of this decision has anything to do with the book, which had no hints of it (the book was shitty to Barbara in its own unique ways).

[Bluebolt1967]

They even have a line in the movie where Commissioner Gordon asks her if she remembers when the Joker first appeared in Gotham and she responds something like " Dad I was 6, just a little kid". Also she is the one who initiates the sex scene with Batman in the first place and he just kind of lets it happen.

That entirely seems responsible and in character for Batman (Much sarcasm implied)

[LessThanLegal]

I'm not buying it. In the comic, when Batman is visiting Barbara in the hospital, Bullock says to Batman that they "found a lens cap on the floor which doesn't match any camera in the house so they think Joker took photos of the body". This line is totally absent in the film and Bullocks dialogue stops after telling Batman about Barbara being naked.

The comic gives an out to the reader that they can think Joker stopped there, but I feel that a lot more is insinuated in the film with the references to Jokers sexuality.

I'm not knocking the film btw, I really enjoyed it.

[Flyattractor]

So what are the chances of this being the result of WB Studio Exec Involvement aka Stupidity?

[Ohnooze]

Sexuality this, sexuality that...I'm so over the sexuality stuff. Whats the damn fascination with everyone's sexuality anyway? No I didn't read the article and I'm not going to because it has "sexuality" in the title. Sorry if my reply has no substance I'm just jaded I guess....

Ok, I did read it and it's as stupid as I expected. Seriously some of the articles on this site seem like wannabe CNN writers....sexuality and more sexuality and then we will add some sexuality to the sexuality article because everyone wants to know about everyone's sexuality.

[mabromov]

Is Timm a chronic liar? Those lines seem pretty dang intentional, not something you'd throw in just because. The fact you have a scene of Batman questioning prostitutes about the Joker implies it was relevant or why include it?

Why don't you ask Brian Azzarello as to why he wrote that?

[joybeans]

In the comic, Batman does interrogate a group of prostitutes, but it's only a single panel without any dialogue, and its place is among a sequence of similar dialogue-less panels in which Batman visits various seedy characters looking for information. There's no implication that the prostitutes are personally connected to the Joker. It seems to me, that the writer, to pad the story out, chose to provide more explicit context to these scenes, and gave Joker a sex drive to justify why Batman would interrogate the prostitutes. I'm more willing to take the position of Hanlon's razor here and assume that this is just a case of nearsighted writing (something that the film certainly has no lack of), than specific intent to imply rape.

With that said, intentional or not, the implication is clearly there, with nothing to contradict the possibility, and Timm's Word of God does nothing to change that.

[solletaire]

Hmm.. is it possible to be controversial just to be controversial? What's the reason for Batman and Batgirl having a relationship? Doesn't it just sound weird - "man" having sex with "girl"? Shouldn't they at least call her "Batwoman" to make it not sound so creepy? Isn't Batgirl about Robin's (Nightwing's) age? Seems like she would be ten years younger than Batman or more. Additionally, seems odd that Batman would have a relationship with Gordon's daughter. I don't know - I'm probably over-thinking things but I don't see how this extra part makes the story better but I can understand how it would creep people out.

It furthers the idea of Batman and Joker being opposites? Batman has a consensual relationship with Barbara while the Joker assaults her. Either war it reduces Barbara to an object/plot device to bounce off of and explore the two male characters in the story.

But yes, I agree it's creepy and in poor taste. Just as the Killing Joke is outdated.

I can see how this story (even without the Batman/Batgirl relationship) was interesting and jarring as it made a clean break from more kid friendly comic stories in its time. But in 2016, just not something that deserves all this pomp and circumstance, imo...