Who is the current Superman?

[Sacred Knight]

I know this may seem redundant but it really isn't, as while we've had a ton of discussion focusing on whether New 52 Superman will come back and what he is, I don't recall a single thread dedicated to the new/old Superman and just what his secret is. He purportedly has one that he doesn't know about according to Mr. Oz, so, I guess I wanted a go-to place for theories on what that secret is and what he really is.

My guess is right now that he and New 52 Superman are the same person. New 52 Superman didn't die, he got pulled into the timestream and was lost there. He's the being that Wally felt lost in the time stream with him for a brief moment before being pulled out for the Saturn Girl scene in Rebirth Special. I also am of the mind that Superwoman is going to be a planned finite minseries, slated to end at a particular point in time, probably 12 issues. The end of her story will see her disappear as well, also lost to the timestream via some sort of plot device. The result being, that Lois will find Superman who is lost as well. Together, they find a way out and end up on some alternate Earth. It is here they stay, reconnect, and eventually become lovers. All this while Lois still has the powers she got from the initial power surge on Superman's "death". What this does is negate the Kryptonian/Human incompatibility and they end up conceiving a child together. As the fetus grows, Lois's powers begin to wane. They're being "fed" in a sense to the baby. Eventually, by the second trimester or so, Lois is technically a completely normal human again. Also around this time, the Earth that they are on has a portion of it bottled by Brainiac Prime with Lois and Clark present at the time. They are bottled on Telos and Superman loses his powers. For some reason, these two in particular are experimented on by Brainiac, and have their memories wiped, and are transferred to a bottle of the post-Crisis Gotham City, their memories re-wired to make them think they are the Clark and Lois of that reality. After the events of Convergence, Clark, Lois, and baby Jon (who has both his father's powers and the artificial powers of his mother, which will cause oddities later in life), are returned, albeit older, to the Earth they originated from, all the while not even knowing it.

[suemorphplus209]

Well, I think your explanation is about spot-on, only question, which is the million dollar one, is how long will they take to admit this? Either within a few issues, they will admit it, or they will wait toward the end, in which I will be thinking, "Drop It altogether".

[Sacred Knight]

The absolute latest I think they could drag out revealing these answers I think would be a year, so next summer. And that's the latest. I think it would be more proper to give these answers by the winter. With double-shipping that's more than enough story-telling with the mystery hanging around before it gets ridiculous. Any longer is just asking too much. They need to acknowledge the goodwill they've lost and know that there are some fans like myself not willing to just shell out dough waiting for answers and trusting it'll be good. Tell us what's going on sooner or later so everyone can move on, both fans and the lore alike. In my mind there's absolutely no way they can wait the full 2 years of the larger Rebirth initiative.

My theory leaves out what the mystery new Clark Kent is. I leave that out because frankly, I don't really know. I guess he could still be a robot or something. He can be an android with artificial blood so the injuries don't necessarily rule out that idea. But I don't think he's going to last that long anymore to be of any real consequence regardless what he is and its doubtful he's the New 52 Clark. Someone once said before that they felt the only purpose of this guy was to re-establish in the public's view that Clark Kent and Superman are two different people, and that's it. At the time I felt there was more to it than just that, but I'm rather thinking that's more right on now. I think there will be a collaboration between him, Superman, and both Lois's to concoct a story to sell to the world to explain away how the Truth reveal and how Lois's subsequent story about Clark's life after his death were all just elaborate ruses to serve some other purpose. Once the world gets on board with that and its established in their eyes again that Clark Kent and Superman are two different beings, the "new" Clark, whatever he truly is, will go away. Though it would really suit the story better if Superman figures out that he IS the New 52 Superman by this point. This way it would seem less like trashing on the new 52 Superman's legacy just so this Superman can be Clark Kent again. New Superman WANTED the story of his life told after all...it would like a slap in the face to his memory to make a mockery of that unless there's the context that hey, I'm not really dead so I need my secrets again.

[manofsteel1979]

I think this is pretty much the answer or some form of it. It's the most logical explanation and one that comes the closest to explaining most of this mystery.

I also think that by then,the post Rebirth DCU will have most of their missing years back,allowing for the "greatest hits" of the 1986-2011 timeline to be officially added to the New 52 continuity. Most of which will likely be composed of the post Exile time line through 1999 ish. In other words after Byrne and before Loeb,which most consider the 'golden age' of the Post Crisis era.

[Sacred Knight]

I will say though that I always have and still do want a more classic Cyborg Superman back. IOW, Hank Henshaw. So I'd still very much enjoy it if they could work in that this new Clark is actually Hank, with his appearance changed for reasons. Then somewhere along the line he gets seriously injured and disfigured and well, the rest writes itself.

And yeah, as for a history I would go Morrison's origin and the New 52 (constituting the first five years and taking place of everything Byrne), then post-Crisis circa Exile all the way up to Dominus. Ball park, not verbatim. No Byrne, no Loeb, no 2000s. Byrne's run as a whole was not terrible but the origin was a major mistake so it has to go. Loeb years were underwhelming at absolute best. And everything after that just a complete trainwreck which led to the desire for a reboot in the first place.

[manofsteel1979]

I will say though that I always have and still do want a more classic Cyborg Superman back. IOW, Hank Henshaw. So I'd still very much enjoy it if they could work in that this new Clark is actually Hank, with his appearance changed for reasons. Then somewhere along the line he gets seriously injured and disfigured and well, the rest writes itself.

And yeah, as for a history I would go Morrison's origin and the New 52 (constituting the first five years and taking place of everything Byrne), then post-Crisis circa Exile all the way up to Dominus. Ball park, not verbatim. No Byrne, no Loeb, no 2000s. Byrne's run as a whole was not terrible but the origin was a major mistake so it has to go. Loeb years were underwhelming at absolute best. And everything after that just a complete trainwreck which led to the desire for a reboot in the first place.

also with the New 52 history in place,its also easier to sneak in Pre Crisis stuff as well due to the similarities between Bronze age Supes and baseline pre event quagmire New 52 Superman status quo:s. Handled right we could finally get the closest we are ever going to get with a unified Superman timeline encompassing the entire publishing history of the character.

Heck you could use the Dominus stuff to keep things like the Byrne version of Supes origin,the Loeb stuff etc as a quasi part of continuity as alternate lives for Superman that he has scattered memories of. Kind of like how with Batman,Morrison Incorporated all the goofy 50s stories as part of drug induced visions when Batman underwent training with Dr Hurt.

Hell,actually I would almost prefer that we find out that Mr. Oz isnt Ozmandys at all,but Dominus and he's been still screwing with Superman's life since 1999 ish. Would explain a LOT.

[The World]

Something I've been wondering for a while now is who was the Jimmy Olsen that was inside the dome with Clark and Lois? Was he also the REAL Jimmy Olsen?

[Patrick Gerard]

I've been suggesting for awhile a variant on this, based on a conversation I had with Jurgens where he identified Superdad as "my Superman".

Jurgens started on Superman after exile.

My one twist is this:

I think the switch happened in Convergence #0/the start of Geoff Johns' run.

Reading order for Superdad would be:

Morrison Action #1 through Convergence #0. Followed by the return (post-Exile) through Grounded through Lois and Clark to present. His origin was unstable because he was in the wrong universe in the 90s and 2000s and the "graft" was imperfect.

Reading order for the other Superman would be:

Byrne Man of Steel #1 through the Warworld match circa Action Annual #2. The switch occurs circa Geoff Johns' first issue. Byrne Superman gets nabbed by Manhattan and made to think he's New 52 Superman by Oz. He dies.

When the dust settles, you have New 52 Superman with his 90s/2000s history grafted on. Maybe one wrinkle in dealing with Jon is that you have Clark get Lois pregnant with Jon just before Doomsday's attack, which was "ten years ago"/"five years into Superman's career"/"A few years after Bruce impregnated Talia". Thus Jon being around would get superimposed as a background detail in things like Morrison JLA (which is going to be revised if it happened anyway) and the Imperiex fight.

[Truman Burbank]

also with the New 52 history in place,its also easier to sneak in Pre Crisis stuff as well due to the similarities between Bronze age Supes and baseline pre event quagmire New 52 Superman status quo:s. Handled right we could finally get the closest we are ever going to get with a unified Superman timeline encompassing the entire publishing history of the character.

Heck you could use the Dominus stuff to keep things like the Byrne version of Supes origin,the Loeb stuff etc as a quasi part of continuity as alternate lives for Superman that he has scattered memories of. Kind of like how with Batman,Morrison Incorporated all the goofy 50s stories as part of drug induced visions when Batman underwent training with Dr Hurt.

Hell,actually I would almost prefer that we find out that Mr. Oz isnt Ozmandys at all,but Dominus and he's been still screwing with Superman's life since 1999 ish. Would explain a LOT.

I'm definitely in the camp that there should be more to Mr. Oz. Ozymandias seems like too easy a move to make; I think there's a different "Oz" reference to be used (the "we're not in Kansas anymore," "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" one) that opens the door for him to be any number of reality-manipulating characters, Dominus included.

[adrikito]

For some reason.. I was thinking about the origin of N52 Kon-el... clone of the son of N52 Superman and Lois in an alternative future.. Yes, I remember this John was evil thanks to Harvest and finally die... I was just thinking about this topic as something similar..

Anyway .. When your character loses what you loved of him.. You only think... WHY? then you leave him.. example, anti-new 52 fans.. Dick Grayson was Agent 37, but this not affect the character.

N52 became Superman in something better, more dynamic and enjoyable.. But some people prefer a more sentimental and pure superman..

Now, if your theory is correct, the existence of PF superman, affects the character and he becames in the same kind of character.. and loose the best of him...

I have my doubts ... DC talks about superdad, as someone more experienced.. This theory is imposible, like another things this is a proof, he is the previous superman...

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

This is post-Crisis Superman. I don't think there's any question about it. He has all of the memories and knowledge that Superman possessed Pre-Flashpoint. The secret that Mr. Oz is referring to is most likely that, while Clark doesn't believe he is from this world, he actually is. When Dan Di...I mean Dr. Manhattan messed with the timeline, Superman was pulled outside of time by Brainiac. Mr. Oz noticed that Superman was missing and, believing that the DCU needed a Superman, thereafter created a copy of Superman to fill in and implanted false memories into the copy to make him believe he was the real Superman.

That is the most straightforward solution. Saying that this is actually New 52 Superman just makes it MORE convoluted. Explaining how they somehow lived through/remember all of Post-Crisis continuity (including all of the other characters) takes way more effort than to simply say that they in fact ARE of that reality and that that reality is really just this reality with 10 years tacked on to it.

[Sacred Knight]

That does not fit the Rebirth mission statement. It may be convoluted to say they're the same guy, but it fits with the mission statement. In its very concept, dropping New 52 history into pre-FP history is convoluted. There's no getting around that. But its what they're doing. They've flat out said so. So based on that, no answer is going to work unless the New 52 version was still Superman. It'd make all his stories pointless otherwise, you don't make five years worth of tales pointless. He cannot be a false creation if they want to retain any integrity at all with the line. If the plan is not to have them as two separate Supermen, then they have to be the same guy. Hell even though I prefer the two Superman idea, it doesn't really fit the Rebirth mission statement either. In an unbiased view, that they're the same guy is in reality the only answer that truly fits. Its the only solution that connects everything, and that appears to be the aim with Rebirth, to connect everything (to a degree, I'm sure they'll reserve the right to wipe out certain post-Crisis stuff they don't want for all their properties along the way). The New 52 Superman and his stories must matter.

In the end Superman will possess his post-Crisis memories AND his New 52 memories. Because its going to turn out that they're all the experiences of the same man. His situation right now is simply reversed from everyone else outside of Wally. Everyone knows their New 52 history and has forgotten their post-Crisis years due to the lost time. Superman knows his post-Crisis years but can't remember his early New 52 history. And that's what the New 52 era will probably end up being for everyone. The early years of these heroes (in Superman's case, the New 52 origin and all that, with the possibility of tweaks, will supplant the Byrne origin, that will have never occurred). New 52-Jurgens era-Rebirth. That'll be Superman's official history book once this is all said and done. "The fallen Superman was not who he thought he was....and neither are you." The new 52 Superman didn't know the totality of his true self because he had memories and experiences stolen from him. Current Superman doesn't know the totality of his true self because he had the opposite collection of memories and experiences stolen from him.

All this applies to Lois as well, btw. Superwoman Lois and and older Lois are the same person too. The how of all this will have something to do with what really happened to Superman when he "died", as I'm pretty sure now he didn't die at all, rather was removed from this plane. In fact don't be surprised if something very similar happens to Lois at the end of the Superwoman run.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

That does not fit the Rebirth mission statement. It may be convoluted to say they're the same guy, but it fits with the mission statement. In its very concept, dropping New 52 history into pre-FP history is convoluted. There's no getting around that. But its what they're doing. They've flat out said so. So based on that, no answer is going to work unless the New 52 version was still Superman.

Yeah there can be. I just provided an answer that would work.

It'd make all his stories pointless otherwise, you don't make five years worth of tales pointless.

Better to make 5 years worth of stories pointless than 30 years worth.

He cannot be a false creation if they want to retain any integrity at all with the line.

I actually think it would add integrity to the line. It would rid the Superman line of that horrible 90s Image aesthetic once and for all and serve as a way to finally restore Superman books to their former glory.

If the plan is not to have them as two separate Supermen, then they have to be the same guy. Hell even though I prefer the two Superman idea, it doesn't really fit the Rebirth mission statement either.

I think they've made it painfully clear that they're separate people. Nothing they have done even remotely suggests that they are one and the same person. And the fact that New Fifty-twoperman disintegrated into ashes is not a good sign that he is really anywhere but dead.

In an unbiased view, that they're the same guy is in reality the only answer that truly fits.

Only answer that truly fits to you...the majority of people never really liked the New 52 Superman.

Its the only solution that connects everything, and that appears to be the aim with Rebirth, to connect everything (to a degree, I'm sure they'll reserve the right to wipe out certain post-Crisis stuff they don't want for all their properties along the way). The New 52 Superman and his stories must matter.

It doesn't make them pointless. It just makes them stories that happened to someone else.

[Ascended]

Lets be honest guys, there is no answer out there that will make sense and make everyone happy. Given that, I'd just as soon see DC throw out the simplest answer, which is almost certainly that Superdad is what he appears to be and so was Nuperman and he's really dead, and just move forward. This whole mess is convoluted as hell and there isnt a solution that is going to make it less so. Not without pissing off a chunk of the fans anyway. If Superdad is the status quo DC thinks will sell, then just focus on that until they're proven wrong, when they'll toss out the next poorly conceived and executed Hail Mary act of desperation.

Whatever Rebirth was supposed to do, whatever it was meant to achieve, they did not follow that formula with Superman. If they had, we'd just be looking at a few post-Crisis extras added onto Nuperman. I dont think Rebirth is a viable measure to gauge what is going to happen in Superman/Action.

[Tayswift]

Anyway it will be convoluted, but it is too late to change superdad to be the new 52 and not the post crises one