Who is the current Superman?

[JAK]

I know this may seem redundant but it really isn't, as while we've had a ton of discussion focusing on whether New 52 Superman will come back and what he is, I don't recall a single thread dedicated to the new/old Superman and just what his secret is. He purportedly has one that he doesn't know about according to Mr. Oz, so, I guess I wanted a go-to place for theories on what that secret is and what he really is.

My guess is right now that he and New 52 Superman are the same person. New 52 Superman didn't die, he got pulled into the timestream and was lost there. He's the being that Wally felt lost in the time stream with him for a brief moment before being pulled out for the Saturn Girl scene in Rebirth Special. I also am of the mind that Superwoman is going to be a planned finite minseries, slated to end at a particular point in time, probably 12 issues. The end of her story will see her disappear as well, also lost to the timestream via some sort of plot device. The result being, that Lois will find Superman who is lost as well. Together, they find a way out and end up on some alternate Earth. It is here they stay, reconnect, and eventually become lovers. All this while Lois still has the powers she got from the initial power surge on Superman's "death". What this does is negate the Kryptonian/Human incompatibility and they end up conceiving a child together. As the fetus grows, Lois's powers begin to wane. They're being "fed" in a sense to the baby. Eventually, by the second trimester or so, Lois is technically a completely normal human again. Also around this time, the Earth that they are on has a portion of it bottled by Brainiac Prime with Lois and Clark present at the time. They are bottled on Telos and Superman loses his powers. For some reason, these two in particular are experimented on by Brainiac, and have their memories wiped, and are transferred to a bottle of the post-Crisis Gotham City, their memories re-wired to make them think they are the Clark and Lois of that reality. After the events of Convergence, Clark, Lois, and baby Jon (who has both his father's powers and the artificial powers of his mother, which will cause oddities later in life), are returned, albeit older, to the Earth they originated from, all the while not even knowing it.

Wow.. that's really well thought out. I like it, even if I'd just prefer they keep things basically as they are. DC will try to think of something, but they've always had a history of re-complicating things and then "fixing' them horribly... so it's almost easier if they just went with things being complicated and accepted it.

But yours is a great idea. But hopefully the current characterization stays, even if the history doesn't.

[Sacred Knight]

Thanks! I've made some changes to the idea, since the first time I failed to incorporate and get across that I think the new 52 history is going to merge with the post-Crisis one, like the rest of the verse. So instead of Lois and Clark finding eeach other and reconnecting, instead it'd be more like what happened to Wally. Once pulled into the timestream, they get their post Crisis memories back, and remmeber they're already in love and married. Them not remembering that is because 10 years of history was stolen by Dr. Manhattan. Being in the timestream restores those memories however, as we've already seen. After finding their way out of the timestream and ending up wheverer it is they end up, they keep said post-Crisis memories (Wally began to lose those memories once he was grounded back to the main Earth, but if Lois and Clark find their way out perhaps to another Earth, that could be used to explain why their old memories stay intact). However now the oppoiste effect happens...they lose their New 52 memories this time.

The theory doens't account for everything, there'd have to be something to explain a lack of aging, at least on Lois's part, for example. But I believe at its base still that the answer will be something like it.

[JAK]

Thanks! I've made some changes to the idea, since the first time I failed to incorporate and get across that I think the new 52 history is going to merge with the post-Crisis one, like the rest of the verse. So instead of Lois and Clark finding eeach other and reconnecting, instead it'd be more like what happened to Wally. Once pulled into the timestream, they get their post Crisis memories back, and remmeber they're already in love and married. Them not remembering that is because 10 years of history was stolen by Dr. Manhattan. Being in the timestream restores those memories however, as we've already seen. After finding their way out of the timestream and ending up wheverer it is they end up, they keep said post-Crisis memories (Wally began to lose those memories once he was grounded back to the main Earth, but if Lois and Clark find their way out perhaps to another Earth, that could be used to explain why their old memories stay intact). However now the oppoiste effect happens...they lose their New 52 memories this time.

The theory doens't account for everything, there'd have to be something to explain a lack of aging, at least on Lois's part, for example. But I believe at its base still that the answer will be something like it.

Well, the nice thing about the ages the respective versions are at the moment is that you don't always see a lot of difference. I'm 36 and some people think I look like I'm in my 20's (it's my goofy mug in my avatar shot, lol), so I didn't really think too much about the Post-Rebirth versions more-or-less fitting right in.

I love this modified idea - mostly because it keeps the Post-Crisis memories intact, even if I know that's selfish on my part. Either way, at the end of the day (N52 memories or P-C memories or even that they keep both), I could at least go with it.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Thanks! I've made some changes to the idea, since the first time I failed to incorporate and get across that I think the new 52 history is going to merge with the post-Crisis one, like the rest of the verse. So instead of Lois and Clark finding eeach other and reconnecting, instead it'd be more like what happened to Wally. Once pulled into the timestream, they get their post Crisis memories back, and remmeber they're already in love and married. Them not remembering that is because 10 years of history was stolen by Dr. Manhattan. Being in the timestream restores those memories however, as we've already seen. After finding their way out of the timestream and ending up wheverer it is they end up, they keep said post-Crisis memories (Wally began to lose those memories once he was grounded back to the main Earth, but if Lois and Clark find their way out perhaps to another Earth, that could be used to explain why their old memories stay intact). However now the oppoiste effect happens...they lose their New 52 memories this time.

DC's higher ups must completely lose their mind to turn the proper Superman of the current continuity into a middle-aged time traveler who spent in the shadow the 10 years following the dawn of supeheroes.

[Sacred Knight]

Oh I never would have done it either. It was a ridiculous decision. Hell what they could have done to already get to this end in a much more satisfactory way would have been to have Jon show up and proclaim New 52 Superman and Lois his parents. Have them juggle with that and say that he was born in the missing ten years, perhaps escaped erasure because he was abducted by Mr. Oz shortly before the time loss, but play with them not actually knowing the boy for a while. There would have been some holes to fill there too like showing at what point in the missing ten year history did Lois give birth, as it would have had to have happened fairly early after the wedding. And maybe you have to shave off a couple years and make Jon 8 or so. But if the main idea was to give Superman a son, and all the evidence points toward that being the main catalyst for everything, then something like this would have been so much more simple, insofar as any idea possibly can be simple in regards to reinserting old continuity.

But what's done is done. At least until DC is forced to reboot/revamp again. I just hope the next one will be the first one under new leadership.

[JAK]

Oh I never would have done it either. It was a ridiculous decision. Hell what they could have done to already get to this end in a much more satisfactory way would have been to have Jon show up and proclaim New 52 Superman and Lois his parents. Have them juggle with that and say that he was born in the missing ten years, perhaps escaped erasure because he was abducted by Mr. Oz shortly before the time loss, but play with them not actually knowing the boy for a while. There would have been some holes to fill there too like showing at what point in the missing ten year history did Lois give birth, as it would have had to have happened fairly early after the wedding. And maybe you have to shave off a couple years and make Jon 8 or so. But if the main idea was to give Superman a son, and all the evidence points toward that being the main catalyst for everything, then something like this would have been so much more simple, insofar as any idea possibly can be simple in regards to reinserting old continuity.

That would be smoother in some ways, definitely. But I think DC is trying to use Rebirth to send a signal to past readers (like me, I guess) who'd given up on DC that it's a good time to come back. Having Jon show up and them not know him also means it may take longer to get to where they are now. Not that it matters in the big scheme of things, but I probably wouldn't be reading now in that scenario. Which would be my loss, I know, but just being honest.

But what's done is done. At least until DC is forced to reboot/revamp again. I just hope the next one will be the first one under new leadership.

Speaking of, I had a theory of how to reboot every so often without pissing as many people off, and I'd love your thoughts:

Fans want to know their version is still out there. Still existing. I had a theory about how DC's multiverse should work... that it's an ever-growing thing, always growing from the center outward. And that when a new universe is about to be born, the wavelengths of the other Earths are such that heroes/villains can travel to different Earths (with some difficulty). Heroes are gathered to protect the shift, and villains try to use the resulting energy for their own ends. At the end of the day, the balance is preserved, and the heroes welcome the new Earth (which would be the new center of the multiverse), and for a time can watch it (as we do, since it's now the "main" Earth). That way, "your" character is NEVER gone, just no longer the focus, and they'll even show up from time to time - heck, if someone wants to do a book on them and there's a market - cool!

[Sacred Knight]

I like that. It has a very Wolfman COIE vibe to it. Only it preserves everything as opposed to erasing everything, lol.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Oh I never would have done it either. It was a ridiculous decision. Hell what they could have done to already get to this end in a much more satisfactory way would have been to have Jon show up and proclaim New 52 Superman and Lois his parents.

Funny, Jurgens' original pitch was to NuLois and NuClark have a child in Futures End/Five Years Later. Although it made no sense to those versions of the characters.

Have them juggle with that and say that he was born in the missing ten years, perhaps escaped erasure because he was abducted by Mr. Oz shortly before the time loss, but play with them not actually knowing the boy for a while. There would have been some holes to fill there too like showing at what point in the missing ten year history did Lois give birth, as it would have had to have happened fairly early after the wedding. And maybe you have to shave off a couple years and make Jon 8 or so.

Well, Jon and Superdad are products of Convergence and not of the subsequent Rebirth initiative/10 years missing/Mr. Oz that makes cryptic stuff. At the time, DC had another view of how their universe works.

But if the main idea was to give Superman a son, and all the evidence points toward that being the main catalyst for everything, then something like this would have been so much more simple, insofar as any idea possibly can be simple in regards to reinserting old continuity.

But what's done is done. At least until DC is forced to reboot/revamp again. I just hope the next one will be the first one under new leadership.

They wanted to give a son to Superman or to a Superman?
Superdad is elseworlds material with a convoluted history. That's one of the many reasons why I believe in the 2 Superman system.
Bring back the proper "simple" Superman of this continuity/Earth and keep the guy built around his son and protecting his family as an "alternative" older version from an alternate timeline. There's room for both takes on the character. Series like JL or Trinity can do without a Superman all about family.
In Marvel works have multiple versions of the same character around, I suppose. DC is already going in that direction with some characters, too.

[Patrick Gerard]

DC's higher ups must completely lose their mind to turn the proper Superman of the current continuity into a middle-aged time traveler who spent in the shadow the 10 years following the dawn of supeheroes.

I think the universe will get altered to match him more closely before this is all over.

[Tayswift]

That would be smoother in some ways, definitely. But I think DC is trying to use Rebirth to send a signal to past readers (like me, I guess) who'd given up on DC that it's a good time to come back. Having Jon show up and them not know him also means it may take longer to get to where they are now. Not that it matters in the big scheme of things, but I probably wouldn't be reading now in that scenario. Which would be my loss, I know, but just being honest.

I don't like this type of story too ala rachel summers and cable. It is very cheating and lazy just have a kid show up from nowhere and say it is their son, then everything gets right.

They wanted to give a son to Superman or to a Superman?
Superdad is elseworlds material with a convoluted history. That's one of the many reasons why I believe in the 2 Superman system.
Bring back the proper "simple" Superman of this continuity/Earth and keep the guy built around his son and protecting his family as an "alternative" older version from an alternate timeline. There's room for both takes on the character. Series like JL or Trinity can do without a Superman all about family.
In Marvel works have multiple versions of the same character around, I suppose. DC is already going in that direction with some characters, too.

Marvel have different characters using same name: hawkeye kate and clint, spidermen morales and peter, spiderwomen: gwen and jessica.
there isn't any reasons for two superman that are the same chracter.

[Sacred Knight]

Sure there is. If they want it. That'd be all the justification needed. There's no rulebook on what they can and can't do, they'll do it if they want to do it. Do I think they will? I doubt it. But they can.

[Tayswift]

of ocurse they can, DC is number one to do pointless things to complicate their own continuity

[Sacred Knight]

Yup. This current approach being the latest evidence of such.

[ManSinha]

How come the current Superman has red boots in Batman #5?

[Sacred Knight]

Some artists are screwing up the look. Hitch drew the entire first issue of JL with him in red boots. Finally got fixed with #2.