DiDio & Lee Say Early "Rebirth" Response is 'Uncharted Territory' for DC Comics

[Ulysses]

Remember the recent incident that Didio cites where fans at a convention walked out of a Q&A session, and Didio says that that's when he realized that there was a disconnect between him and the fanbase? I believe him. Yes, Didio ordered the relaunch; but the creative control went to Johns because of Didio's realization that what he was doing wasn't working.

Do you have a source?

[Kyer]

Remember the recent incident that Didio cites where fans at a convention walked out of a Q&A session, and Didio says that that's when he realized that there was a disconnect between him and the fanbase? I believe him. Yes, Didio ordered the relaunch; but the creative control went to Johns because of Didio's realization that what he was doing wasn't working.

Or was it maybe something like his boss calling Didio to the office:
Your direction is killing sales. Fix it. Get Johns to do the main framework.

[Jabare]

I don't really understand what Rebirth is and I can't say it has done anything to interest me in DC comics if anything ti is the opposite.

There are only two DC titles I'm willing to check out at this point

[kcekada]

That doesn't seem like a good attitude for a business to have. "Yeah, these guys are always going to be better than us, so let's not even try to fix that." Every business should strive to be the best in their areas.

And I really don't see what's so special and unique about Marvel that makes them impossible for DC to surpass.

Nothing's impossible, but Marvel's stable history means that you can pick up a Spider-Man book from 40 years ago -- and realize it's the same character who is being published today. Not a different version who looks the same -- but the same character -- albeit with less baggage.

That said, Marvel's attempt to create more diversity by replacing classic heroes with watered-down copycats ain't exactly my cup of tea. And it's too much, all at once. That universe really seems unstable at the moment -- teams being reshuffled every year or two -- (non) events that lead to more of the same. I do think they are reaching some new audiences, but they're also losing older readers at the same time. Ideally they should be able to find new readers without alienating their existing readers.

[Vanguard-01]

Nothing's impossible, but Marvel's stable history means that you can pick up a Spider-Man book from 40 years ago -- and realize it's the same character who is being published today. Not a different version who looks the same -- but the same character -- albeit with less baggage.

Yeah. Sorry. But I'm pretty sure the Spider-Man I loved as a kid would never sell his marriage to the devil in order to drag his very old aunt, who ASKED him to let her go, back into a life she didn't even want anymore. The Tony Stark I read as a kid could be a pompous ass from time to time, but the kind of guy who would throw his friends and allies into an inhumane prison without even PRETENDING to give a damn about their rights? Not so much. The Captain America I loved as a kid sure as HELL was no Nazi. The X-Men? They could be a dysfunctional family from time to time, but spending more time fighting each other than fighting to protect humans and mutants alike? Nope. They sure as Hell wouldn't resort to the same terror tactics that their former greatest enemy loved to employ in order to get what they wanted.

That said, Marvel's attempt to create more diversity by replacing classic heroes with watered-down copycats ain't exactly my cup of tea. And it's too much, all at once. That universe really seems unstable at the moment -- teams being reshuffled every year or two -- (non) events that lead to more of the same. I do think they are reaching some new audiences, but they're also losing older readers at the same time. Ideally they should be able to find new readers without alienating their existing readers.

This part, I agree with, of course.

[fumetti]

I came back because the REAL Barry Allen is back. (Real Wally, too.) It's looking more and more like we area STUCK with this New52 universe, and that SUCKS.

Why so bad? Because it's a mish-mosh and damned difficult to tell what's from pre-Flashpoint and what's New52.

At least Superman is clearly the pre-Flashpoint Superman.

Barry is now pre-Flashpoint Barry Allen. The New52 Barry was a startover; no memories from pre-Flashpoint. His rememberance now makes him pre-Flashpoint, but it's yet unclear if this Barry is just the New52 Barry with restored memories (most likely) or he leaped over New52 (not so likely). Barry is not yet making conversations with other characters, besides Batman, about his change. So it's still unclear what Barry's relationship is with everyone else. Since he gained his pre-Flashpoint memories, that means he should be having problems talking to people. "Oh, Batman, so you remember [Silver Age story]?" "No, Flash, I don't recall that at all." And then Batman gets all crazy paranoid about this 'new' Barry Allen...

Wally is clearly pre-Flashpoint.

Batman is the New52 version. Why? Because he only knew the New52 Superman and does not know the pre-Flashpoint Superman. They are strangers.


Wonder Woman confusingly says in JL:R special about the dead New52 Superman, "He's the man I knew yet still a stranger." Huh? So does this mean that the Rebirth WW is an uninterrupted continuation of the New52? And was New52 WW a total restart of WW? (I don't read WW so I can't tell.)

I can't tell any change in Aquaman. Looks like a straight continuation from New52. He's of New52 because he got "unmarried" when it began.

Justice League is New52 because all the dialogue so far suggests it. They all either declare mourning for the dead New52 Superman or express no opinion at all. No one is saying "who was this guy," not even Barry Allen.

What we have at the moment are at least three distinct continuities merged together. Barry and Wally are from the old Silver/Bronze Age continuity. Superman is from post-Crisis continuity. This Superman knows Wally well, but never actually met Barry Allen until he returned in 2009-10 (unless you count the non-chronicled times alluded to in post-Crisis discussion that they did or might have worked together in the past--it's really all fuzzy because DC never really fixed the continuity problems Crisis caused). And Batman represents the New52.

I realize DC is trying to keep the best of everthing, but this is ALREADY problematic. DC is counting on the unresolved question of the Watchmen to keep fans reading--and it's working. The hope that this will all make sense glosses over the questions FOR NOW.

But this is no cause for celebration for Didio. THIS IS DIDIO'S MESS. Praising Didio for Rebirth is like hugging the man who stole your car but then returned it 5 years later--without the motor. 1) I'm only getting back part of what I lost, and 2) He's only fixing something HE broke in the first place.

[fumetti]

I don't think Rebirth and New 52 are the same thing. They're both relaunches. But New 52 was about completely changing and reimagining the DCU in an attempt to modernize it, and ended up alienating most DC fans and destroyed many things people liked about the universe. Rebirth is about fixing the universe, and restoring all the stuff they lost or changed with the New 52. It's an attempt to recapture the feel of the old DCU while still trying to feel new and modern. Which is why Supermans red trunks are still absent.

The only way this will work is if the pre-Flashpoint DCU is restored while including whatever New52 stories were popular.

The way they're doing it now, which is the opposite, probably won't last (as a popular thing). Once the returning readers realize they're not getting what they wanted, they'll leave again.

Superman in a different world works as a story, but how long as the status quo? All those people who dropped the New52 Superman titles are going to start missing the real Perry White, etc.

The "real" Barry Allen is going to have to start having "man out of his time" problems again. It should be difficult for Barry to deal with Batman and others whose continuity does not stretch back to pre-Crisis. Barry and Wally still have a lot to deal with, since Wally has an entire adult life Barry missed; and now there are the added dimensions of Wally missing out the 5 years of New52 and the weirdness of Barry living 5 years without his pre-Flashpoint memories. What does this do to Barry's relationship with Iris? This Iris doesn't know she was (or wasn't) killed by Zoom, or that she was (or wasn't) born in the far future. Barry should keep the rest of the JLA entertained as he regales them with stories they never had! Which, of course, should make Barry quite solemn as he comes to grip with not really knowing any of these people. If DC skips over all this, there's no point to bringing him back at all.

I'm excited right now, but mostly on what I HOPE will happen. Nothing's really happened yet.

[ilovelocust]

Remember the recent incident that Didio cites where fans at a convention walked out of a Q&A session, and Didio says that that's when he realized that there was a disconnect between him and the fanbase? I believe him. Yes, Didio ordered the relaunch; but the creative control went to Johns because of Didio's realization that what he was doing wasn't working.

I'd love a source for this too. That sounds like an important moment.

[ilovelocust]

I'd love a source for this too. That sounds like an important moment.

Found a reference to where this was mentioned. Apparently Dan Didio brought it up himself in a Rebirth panel. It's in an unnamed previous NY panel that this occurred.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07/...ego-comic-con/

[The Whovian]

While there were definitely some things that I hated about New 52, I think the merge of it and Rebirth are a perfect blend of the two.

[Pinsir]

I think Zack Snyder should do a movie about Didio and Lee and make them to be Jesus characters. Didio especially is the true savior of the industry, it is he who shall purge the sins of the past and grant us entry into the eternal bliss of comic utopia.

[byrd156]

I think Zack Snyder should do a movie about Didio and Lee and make them to be Jesus characters. Didio especially is the true savior of the industry, it is he who shall purge the sins of the past and grant us entry into the eternal bliss of comic utopia.

Ummmmm wut?

[Pinsir]

Ummmmm wut?

Their pretty cool guys.

[Trey Strain]

"signals a new paradigm for us in how we do our business; doing books twice monthly."

Jim, would it be too much to ask you to give me and CBR a nod for that "new paradigm?' Gee, man...

http://community.comicbookresources....-twice-a-month

[BatmanJones]

My take on Rebirth is that nothing is mind-blowing but pretty much everything is good or VERY good.

Titans is the only title that has me on the edge of my seat, where it's hard to wait for the next issue. But, having been down to only JL and Batman before Rebirth, I'm actually reading every single Rebirth book except Red Hood and I'm liking every single one, some a lot.

None are super-incredible but all are solid as hell.