A New Hope: Nadia Pym (All New Wasp) Appreciation

[Punisher007]

but they have moved on. that's what this issue was about; moving on from Hank so that Nadia and Janet's story could be told. it is entirely new. the irony is that what you actually want is for things to not change; to go back to "normal." you want them to sweep all that has happened under the rug and not reference it again.

No, they didn't move on. Moving on would be for it not to come up at all, or for Janet to point out that Hank wasn't himself at the time, paid for it, and went to great pains to make up for it, and she forgave him (and Nadia to do the same). What they actually did, was throw him under the bus YET AGAIN, an do YET MORE retconning to try and make him look worse than it actually was, to push the Janet/Nadia thing.

It's lazy, it's cheap, it's disrespectful, and it shows how out of idea they really are.

The whole incident has been blown so ridiculously out of proportion compared to what it ACTUALLY was, and I'm tired of it. Yes, it should be forgotten by this point, because they've dealt with it for DECADES. Just like Peter and Reed's slaps have also been forgotten by Marvel.

See that's the difference between us. You think that them dragging Hank through the mud again is ok for the sake of Janet and Nadia. I don't and think that they could have developed the Janet/Nadia dynamic without doing that.

[ian0delond]

Didn't know Reed and Peter were as intimate as Janet and Hank.

[Michael Watkins]

No, they didn't move on.

sure they did. i read the story. Nadia wanted to know who he was. Jan told him. Nadia sided with Jan. that's moving on.

Moving on would be for it not to come up at all,

that is definitely not moving on. that's repression.

or for Janet to point out that Hank wasn't himself at the time, paid for it, and went to great pains to make up for it,

he didn't. his big act of contrition came when everyone believed Janet to be dead. he opened a shelter for victims of domestic abuse. think about that. it took her death to get him to make amends.

and she forgave him (and Nadia to do the same).

she can't make Nadia do anything.

What they actually did, was throw him under the bus YET AGAIN, an do YET MORE retconning to try and make him look worse than it actually was, to push the Janet/Nadia thing.

he threw Jan under a bus. and all you care about is Pym's image. how about Jan's image as the victim of another avenger? she was the first female member; a pioneer. he treated her like property. Tigra (when she was still sane) said it best. Jan is worth several Hanks.

See that's the difference between us. You think that them dragging Hank through the mud again is ok for the sake of Janet and Nadia. I don't and think that they could have developed the Janet/Nadia dynamic without doing that.

he was the elephant in the room. they had to fully address her parentage.

[Michael Watkins]

Considering her decision to not take Hank's name was merely because she realized she didn't know him, it would be highly illogical for her to take the Trovaya name. If one thinks her reasons for not taking the Pym surname is somehow logical, they have to apply it to both parents.

i just said that i liked the sound of the name. i said nothing about logic.

Yet he was plenty there for little furry William. He was there for his Academy kids. He moved heaven and earth to try to find them in Avengers Arena. The only one who did, may I point out. He was there for Victor in A.I.

did you ever see him with William alone? those academy kids wound up in murder world and then part of Zemo's posse. and where is Victor now?

[Mary Jay]

No, they didn't move on. Moving on would be for it not to come up at all, or for Janet to point out that Hank wasn't himself at the time, paid for it, and went to great pains to make up for it, and she forgave him (and Nadia to do the same). What they actually did, was throw him under the bus YET AGAIN, an do YET MORE retconning to try and make him look worse than it actually was, to push the Janet/Nadia thing.

It's lazy, it's cheap, it's disrespectful, and it shows how out of idea they really are.

The whole incident has been blown so ridiculously out of proportion compared to what it ACTUALLY was, and I'm tired of it. Yes, it should be forgotten by this point, because they've dealt with it for DECADES. Just like Peter and Reed's slaps have also been forgotten by Marvel.

See that's the difference between us. You think that them dragging Hank through the mud again is ok for the sake of Janet and Nadia. I don't and think that they could have developed the Janet/Nadia dynamic without doing that.

I agree with everything you wrote.

The strange thing is that Jeremy Whitley is under the impression that what he wrote looks good for all characters, that there was no disrespect, no disowning or anything of the sort, that they all got painted in a positive light. I don't think he did the worst job, but he could have handled things far better for all the characters IMO. I had warmed up to Nadia recently, but now I don't know. She's basically done the exact same thing just one issue prior to the finale... a bit hypocritical if you ask me. Jan didn't look as bad, but did she even mention she loved him? I can't even remember. It's not because it's a story about Nadia and Jan that there's a need to trash other characters along the way.

Moving on doesn't mean to forget. It simply means to acknowledge something happened, deal with it, and continue on. If one feels the need to constantly rehash the story, that means they haven't moved on.

[Frontier]

I do wonder if other writers will acknowledge Nadia as Nadia van dyne now and not pym It would be nice for them to be consistent with this new development going forward.

It'd be cool if people use both interchangeably...

It might be nice for her, but it's hardly necessary. She has a family. She has Janet. She has Ying and the girls of GIRL. She has Jarvis and Bobbi. She's gotten to choose her family, and has surrounded herself with people who love and support her. She doesn't need two parents who are together. She's doing just fine as it is. I do hope that, once Hank comes back, they get to form a bond, as well. I'm sure he'd love her, and she loves everyone other than Spider-Man, so. Man, now I'm just thinking of Nadia with Sam Humphries' take on Hank, from Avengers AI, when he was really excited about everything. I loved that take on Hank.

Now I can only imagine Hank coming back and feeling superfluous and unwanted in the life of his newly-discovered daughter and Janet ('cuz being Hank Pym is suffering) .

[Mary Jay]

Now I can only imagine Hank coming back and feeling superfluous and unwanted in the life of his newly-discovered daughter and Janet ('cuz being Hank Pym is suffering) .

Yep. I used to think that Nadia could actually be the one doing something to brink Hank back somehow. Now it feels as though she doesn't want or doesn't care to have anything to do with him. Good thing for her she had the opportunity to stay at his place, play with his science equipment and trash his house before she decided he wasn't important in her life after all...

[Michael Watkins]

Yep. I used to think that Nadia could actually be the one doing something to brink Hank back somehow. Now it feels as though she doesn't want or doesn't care to have anything to do with him. Good thing for her she had the opportunity to stay at his place, play with his science equipment and trash his house before she decided he wasn't important in her life after all...

Ultron's had every opportunity to seek her out, if he cared to. and it's Janet's science equipment, now.

[Frontier]

Ultron's had every opportunity to seek her out, if he cared to. and it's Janet's science equipment, now.

Even assuming there's actually any bit of Hank in there, I don't think he has any idea Nadia exists.

[Rogue Star]

Yep. I used to think that Nadia could actually be the one doing something to brink Hank back somehow. Now it feels as though she doesn't want or doesn't care to have anything to do with him. Good thing for her she had the opportunity to stay at his place, play with his science equipment and trash his house before she decided he wasn't important in her life after all...

I chuckled at this.



But then I realized that Nadia's attitude toward Hank probably represents that of Marvel as well. Ouch.

[Michael Watkins]

Even assuming there's actually any bit of Hank in there, I don't think he has any idea Nadia exists.

oh come on. she's part of two superhero teams. you don't think that Ultron would be keeping tabs on the Avengers and/or any Pym-related news?

[Tiamatty]

Yep. I used to think that Nadia could actually be the one doing something to brink Hank back somehow. Now it feels as though she doesn't want or doesn't care to have anything to do with him. Good thing for her she had the opportunity to stay at his place, play with his science equipment and trash his house before she decided he wasn't important in her life after all...

She still could play a role in Hank's return. No reason why she couldn't, if the writer who gets to bring Hank back chooses to go that route. It's not like Nadia said she wanted nothing to do with him. I'm sure she'd still love an opportunity to get to know him. Hell, if she gets to spend time with him, she may even take back his surname (assuming current writers don't decide to just ignore her taking Janet's name in the first place). Nothing about the final issue precludes any of what you want to see. All of it is still on the table. It's all on other writers, and on editorial, to decide what they want to do. Maybe Waid will have the Champions bring Pym back. Or maybe another writer will take her and kill her off. Or maybe this happens, or that happens, or something else.

[Frontier]

oh come on. she's part of two superhero teams. you don't think that Ultron would be keeping tabs on the Avengers and/or any Pym-related news?

I think if he knew he would've acted by now or mentioned it. Even assuming it's just Ultron in there, I don't think he would let a flesh-and-blood Pym progeny live if he could help it.

For all he knows there's only another Wasp, not that it's his daughter.

She still could play a role in Hank's return. No reason why she couldn't, if the writer who gets to bring Hank back chooses to go that route. It's not like Nadia said she wanted nothing to do with him. I'm sure she'd still love an opportunity to get to know him. Hell, if she gets to spend time with him, she may even take back his surname (assuming current writers don't decide to just ignore her taking Janet's name in the first place). Nothing about the final issue precludes any of what you want to see. All of it is still on the table. It's all on other writers, and on editorial, to decide what they want to do. Maybe Waid will have the Champions bring Pym back. Or maybe another writer will take her and kill her off. Or maybe this happens, or that happens, or something else.

I think the issue ended with Nadia's feelings of her father being very ambigous or complex, which I guess makes sense but at the same time could lend to the interpretation that she wants to have anything to do with her father or really cares about him anymore.

[chamber-music]

Nadia seems to be a mostly optimistic and hopeful character. Condemning her father without at least getting to know him would seem like a harsh move on her part.

I've been thinking. Does Janet consider Hank to be dead?
The Pymtron thing is a little ambiguous as to if Ultron is posing as Pym or if they are merged. In Uncanny Avengers it seemed like Janet thought Hank was dead and it was Ultron posing as him. Either way I wonder how Nadia will react to seeing or hearing about Pymtron.

[Mary Jay]

She still could play a role in Hank's return. No reason why she couldn't, if the writer who gets to bring Hank back chooses to go that route. It's not like Nadia said she wanted nothing to do with him. I'm sure she'd still love an opportunity to get to know him. Hell, if she gets to spend time with him, she may even take back his surname (assuming current writers don't decide to just ignore her taking Janet's name in the first place). Nothing about the final issue precludes any of what you want to see. All of it is still on the table. It's all on other writers, and on editorial, to decide what they want to do. Maybe Waid will have the Champions bring Pym back. Or maybe another writer will take her and kill her off. Or maybe this happens, or that happens, or something else.

I guess that's another way to look at it. I was so disappointed by that finale and Jan and Nadia's dialogue that I didn't stop to consider that nothing is ever set in stone. Thank you for this, you've given me a bit of hope back.

Nadia seems to be a mostly optimistic and hopeful character. Condemning her father without at least getting to know him would seem like a harsh move on her part.

I've been thinking. Does Janet consider Hank to be dead?
The Pymtron thing is a little ambiguous as to if Ultron is posing as Pym or if they are merged. In Uncanny Avengers it seemed like Janet thought Hank was dead and it was Ultron posing as him. Either way I wonder how Nadia will react to seeing or hearing about Pymtron.

I think Jan considers Hank to be dead, but that's just my interpretation on things. There is no way right now that she can be aware of the "dinner" Pymtron threw in SE #4, and even that is not evidence by itself of Hank being actually alive.

So I guess that, as far as we know, Nadia is certain Hank is dead, so from her point of view, his feelings are not relevant to her decisions (like not taking on his name) since he's dead and can't be hurt by that decision. But if writers are the least consistent with her character at all, IF or WHEN she finds out about Pymtron, and has the slightest doubt that he could still be alive, I think she would try something. If she's anything like Hank (and I think she is) she'll try to figure out a way to free him, maybe even to the point of obsession. Like she wanted to find a way to stop CWII, like she defended her friends, etc...