Getting back into Spider Man comics. Stuff that went on in 1996-1998. What happened?

**Pav** · 08-02-2016, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Cheesedique

As choppy as some of Mackie's stuff was at this time, it was still leagues better than the ASM Vol. 2 era, and Senator Ward (*shudder*).

The less we speak of these stories the better.

-Pav, who has never disliked comics more than those...

**xpyred** · 08-02-2016, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Cheesedique

Why the heck was it ever vetoed that Phil turn out to be the Green Goblin V that was running around at this time?

Honestly, Phil being a lackey for Norman would have been great and would explain his current weirdness in the books over the last few years. I always thought it was between Phil, or another Peter Parker clone. I say this because one particular issue has the Goblin standing in the shadows while Norman goes off on a tantrum or something. The artwork makes it seem as though it was Peter Parker in a Goblin costume...which of course plays well later on after the reboot.

here's the page
Goblin.jpg

**BlitheringToot** · 08-02-2016, 11:21 AM

"Spectacular" had hands-down the best stories during that era. J.M. DeMatteis was absolutely killing it, especially with characters like Mad Jack and even the unnecessary but still entertaining Kraven III (Alyosha). My only complaint would have to be Luke Ross' art, which wasn't terrible but too cartoony for my taste. I can only imagine how much more enjoyable that run would have been if Sal Buscema had stayed onboard ...

Tom DeFalco's "Amazing" was great as well, even though some of his one-and-done stories were silly (Man-Spider, Synario, etc.). I actually loved Carnage Cosmic, especially thanks to Joe Bennett's artwork. As for Steve Skroce, I hated his art at the time (his Doc Ock was downright hideous), but I've grown to appreciate it as an adult.

Howard Mackie's "Peter Parker: Spider-Man" was decent. He handled the mob villains best, making guys like Hammerhead fearsome again, and he also managed to bring back the original Ox, which I greatly appreciated. But the highlight of that run was Romita, Jr.'s artwork, especially the issue where Pete had to take on the Juggernaut again. JR JR gets a lot of grief for his art these days, a lot of which I can blame on Klaus Janson's crappy inks, but back then, working with the likes of Al Williamson (the best of the best) and Scott Hanna, Romita was at his peak.

As for "Sensational" ... Dan Jurgens' run was OK but nothing special. I appreciated the effort he made to establish Ben as a very different character from Peter with a very different supporting cast, but I didn't really care about most of that cast. Todd DeZago and Mike Wieringo took the series into rather silly territory, some of which was great and some ... not so great. But Wieringo's art style was definitely a great fit, and I liked how DeZago was able to spotlight B-to-C-list characters you didn't really see anywhere else like Prowler and Swarm.

**paurru** · 08-02-2016, 02:07 PM

I'll make it easier for you people here.

Here's where I stopped buying spider Man comics back then due to where I couldn't keep up.

Spider Man # 62
Amazing Spider Man # 427
Amazing Spider Man Annual 28
Spectacular Spideman # 250
Sensational Spider Man # 9 . Swarm was pretty cool back then in my opinion

**Mister Mets** · 08-02-2016, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by paurru

I'll make it easier for you people here.

Here's where I stopped buying spider Man comics back then due to where I couldn't keep up.

Spider Man # 62
Amazing Spider Man # 427
Amazing Spider Man Annual 28
Spectacular Spideman # 250
Sensational Spider Man # 9 . Swarm was pretty cool back then in my opinion

How much of the recent Spider-Man material have you checked out?

I would recommend the JMS/ Romita run, Millar's Marvel Knights Spider-Man, as well as Slott's Big Time and Superior Spider-Man runs over the pre-relaunch stuff in the late 90s.

Originally Posted by BlitheringToot

"Spectacular" had hands-down the best stories during that era. J.M. DeMatteis was absolutely killing it, especially with characters like Mad Jack and even the unnecessary but still entertaining Kraven III (Alyosha). My only complaint would have to be Luke Ross' art, which wasn't terrible but too cartoony for my taste. I can only imagine how much more enjoyable that run would have been if Sal Buscema had stayed onboard ...

Tom DeFalco's "Amazing" was great as well, even though some of his one-and-done stories were silly (Man-Spider, Synario, etc.). I actually loved Carnage Cosmic, especially thanks to Joe Bennett's artwork. As for Steve Skroce, I hated his art at the time (his Doc Ock was downright hideous), but I've grown to appreciate it as an adult.

Howard Mackie's "Peter Parker: Spider-Man" was decent. He handled the mob villains best, making guys like Hammerhead fearsome again, and he also managed to bring back the original Ox, which I greatly appreciated. But the highlight of that run was Romita, Jr.'s artwork, especially the issue where Pete had to take on the Juggernaut again. JR JR gets a lot of grief for his art these days, a lot of which I can blame on Klaus Janson's crappy inks, but back then, working with the likes of Al Williamson (the best of the best) and Scott Hanna, Romita was at his peak.

As for "Sensational" ... Dan Jurgens' run was OK but nothing special. I appreciated the effort he made to establish Ben as a very different character from Peter with a very different supporting cast, but I didn't really care about most of that cast. Todd DeZago and Mike Wieringo took the series into rather silly territory, some of which was great and some ... not so great. But Wieringo's art style was definitely a great fit, and I liked how DeZago was able to spotlight B-to-C-list characters you didn't really see anywhere else like Prowler and Swarm.

Spectacular was good, but JMD had been better. Part of it might be that Zeck and Buscema were better fits for the types of stories he wanted to tell than Ross.

Another aspect might be all the co-writers. 246 was written by Glenn Greenburg over JMD's plot. 248 and 249 were written by Mark Bernardo over JMD's plot. 254 was written by DeFalco over JMD's plot, while 255 was written by JMD over DeFalco's plot. Glenn Greenberg wrote 257, the conclusion of JMD's Identity Crisis tie-in.

**Metamorphosis** · 08-02-2016, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by paurru

I'll make it easier for you people here.

Here's where I stopped buying spider Man comics back then due to where I couldn't keep up.

Spider Man # 62
Amazing Spider Man # 427
Amazing Spider Man Annual 28
Spectacular Spideman # 250
Sensational Spider Man # 9 . Swarm was pretty cool back then in my opinion

The big story that culminated out of this era was Norman gaining insanity out of the "Gathering of Five" ritual, going back to his Goblin ways, and revealing that he was holding Aunt May captive who was thought to have died in ASM #400.

Peter defeats Norman basically off-panel, rescues Aunt May (this story is called "The Final Chapter", and is not that great), then the series did a soft reboot and they go down to just two monthly titles into the really patchy Mackie / Byrne era.

**Mister Mets** · 08-06-2016, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Cheesedique

The big story that culminated out of this era was Norman gaining insanity out of the "Gathering of Five" ritual, going back to his Goblin ways, and revealing that he was holding Aunt May captive who was thought to have died in ASM #400.

Peter defeats Norman basically off-panel, rescues Aunt May (this story is called "The Final Chapter", and is not that great), then the series did a soft reboot and they go down to just two monthly titles into the really patchy Mackie / Byrne era.

There was also a third anthology title for the next few years with Webspinners and Tangled Web. Those had some good self-contained stories that are worth checking out in dollar bins.
Webspinners #1-3 had JM DeMatteis explore what made Mysterio tic (and was set at the tail end of the Lee/ Ditko run.)
Webspinners #7-9 was Peter Parker's prom by Joe Kelly.
Webspinners #10-12 was a psychological drama with Chameleon starring Paul Jenkins (essentially his audition tape for Peter Parker Spider-Man.)
Webspinners #17-18 was a team-up with Silver Sable against Doctor Octopus and the Sinister Syndicate by Tom DeFalco and Ron Frenz (essentially an untold tale from their run, that also served as a finale.)
Death & Destiny by Lee Weeks dealt with the aftermath of Captain Stacy's death.
Revenge of the Green Goblin by Roger Stern and Ron Frenz provided Norman Osborn's back-story.
Tangled Web #4 by Greg Rucka and Eduardo Risso showed what happens to a minor crime figure when Spider-Man stops one of Kingpin's deliveries.
Tangled Web #5-6 by Peter Milligan and Duncan Fegredo gave a spotlight on the Rhino as he figures out a way to become smarter.
Tangled Web #10 by Zeb Wells and Dean Haspiel was an excellent spotlight on J Jonah Jameson, after he was made to visit a psychiatrist.
Tangled Web #11 and #20 were Holiday comics by Darwyn Cooke.
Tangled Web #14 by Brian Azzarello, the wrestler Raven and artist Giuseppe Camuncoli showed what Crusher Hogan was up to during the events of Amazing Fantasy #15.
Tangled Web #22 showed how the cops deal with finding two career criminals in Spider-Man's web.

Especially early on, it was heads and shoulders above what Marvel was producing at the time.

**Metamorphosis** · 08-06-2016, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Mister Mets

There was also a third anthology title for the next few years with Webspinners and Tangled Web. Those had some good self-contained stories that are worth checking out in dollar bins.

Especially early on, it was heads and shoulders above what Marvel was producing at the time.

I've read pretty much all of this, and would have to agree, the majority of it is good stuff:

Webspinners #1-3 - actually didn't care for this story a lot, a rare misfire from JMD--plus I found the art here to be terrible

Webspinners #7-9 - never read this one

Webspinners #10-12 - great stuff here with the Chameleon; really strong debut for Jenkins on Spider-Man

Webspinners #17-18 - I only read the first part of this DeFalco / Frenz two-parter with Sable, Ock and the Sinister Syndicate (second issue has proved prohibitively expensive to pick up as a back issue unfortunately). Good stuff here though, like a throwback to DeFalco's classic ASM run with Frenz.

Death & Destiny (by Lee Weeks) - just read this for the first time recently on Unlimited--really great story with some nice art both by Weeks. Highly recommend this.

Revenge of the Green Goblin: Probably my favorite Norman story post-his return to the books until Marvel Knights and Thunderbolts.

Originally Posted by Mister Mets

Tangled Web #4 by Greg Rucka and Eduardo Risso showed what happens to a minor crime figure when Spider-Man stops one of Kingpin's deliveries.
Tangled Web #5-6 by Peter Milligan and Duncan Fegredo gave a spotlight on the Rhino as he figures out a way to become smarter.
Tangled Web #10 by Zeb Wells and Dean Haspiel was an excellent spotlight on J Jonah Jameson, after he was made to visit a psychiatrist.
Tangled Web #11 and #20 were Holiday comics by Darwyn Cooke.
Tangled Web #14 by Brian Azzarello, the wrestler Raven and artist Giuseppe Camuncoli showed what Crusher Hogan was up to during the events of Amazing Fantasy #15.
Tangled Web #22 showed how the cops deal with finding two career criminals in Spider-Man's web.

I have all the Tangled Web series in trade form. Great buy, some great stories all around among a few duds.

I really like the anthology-style, almost Gotham Central approach to Spider-Man's world. Jenkins would pick up a similar story approach in a few of his PP:SM issues.

Shame as a title it seems something like Tangled Web is apparently not profitable enough for Marvel to keep publishing.

That said, an anthology title featuring Peter's classic supporting cast as well as alternating appearances from his myriad Spider-spinoffs could be a cool title to have around right now. Put the Amazing Spider-Man banner at the top of it now, and it might sell better.

**Mister Mets** · 08-06-2016, 09:34 AM

The economics has probably become more favorable to anthology titles. It's possible for readers to buy older single issues in a way that lines Marvel's pockets thanks to digital comics services, so Marvel has an incentive to publish accessible shorter comics that might not have existed earlier (It's tough to put a three issue mini-series in trade form.)

**Zeitgeist** · 08-09-2016, 03:58 AM

It was a pretty boring time for my money, so much so I stopped reading for a good few years. Like others mentioned, mainly stuff to do with the Black Tarantula and the Rose, female Doc Ock I think. Steve Skroce was on art for Amazing I think, he was pretty decent.

**paurru** · 08-09-2016, 12:38 PM

There happen to be any trade paperbacks for some of the stuff that went on in the Spider Man comic books back in 1996 to 1998? That way I can catch up that way instead of finding 4 dollar back issues of Amazing Spider Man or whatever.

**Metamorphosis** · 08-09-2016, 01:25 PM

The later Clone Saga stuff was collected in the Complete Clone Saga trades.

Identity Crisis is available in trade form, but you would have to get it used, as I don't think it's currently in print.

Spider-Hunt was collected in the trade of the same name and should still be in print.

That's all I know of from this era that's been collected. I've been purchasing some of the back issues the last few years and most of them aren't that expensive--sometimes as much or less as cover price.

Would be great if Marvel would add a lot more from this era on Unlimited.

**ViewtifulJC** · 08-09-2016, 09:13 PM

This era is interesting to me because its so often forgotten. In my most fans minds, it goes Clone Saga -> reboot/Gathering of Five/The Final Chapter -> JMS, but there's a very low-key two years of the title with Aunt Maria in the Aunt May role and Peter and MJ just trying to get by in NYC.

Sensational Spider-Man is lighthearted fun whenever Mike Wieringo draws it. There's just no good way for there to be FOUR different comics about the same man, so instead of any romantic drama or psychological issues it just works on giving Wieringo cool stuff to draw like dinosaurs or big fantasy monsters or flying Vulture battles. In a lot of ways the current Spidey title reminds me of that. Its not a wholly necessary read with the lack of any real subplots or pathos happening around Peter, but more times than not its certainly an enjoyably shallow read. I say if you're a fan of Spider-Man, the Dezago/Wieringo run is definitely one worth tracking down.

J.M.DeMatteis Spectacular Spider-Man also isn't bad. All the hallmarks of his work is here: silent panels, repeating images, introspective narration, and touching moments between Peter and MJ(he is, by far, the best married PeterxMJ writer. JMS is a distant 2nd, 3rd...Matt Fraction?). Unfortunately Luke Ross is merely competent at best and often distracting, and not really a great fit for DeMatteis brand of psychological drama or horror. I have no idea how Marvel didn't put their strongest Spidey writer with their strongest artist(John Romita Jr)? Also, Mad Jack, like all Goblin mysteries, sputters out into a dud. There are bunch of fruitless hints about his origin that never pay off, his motivations change from one issue to the next, and ultimately amounts to nothing. Still, DeMatteis often has the sharpest, most emotionally resonant scripts out of any of the Spidey scribes, and more times than not that made his book worth reading.

I've always found DeFalco a corny writer, and unfortunately that's quite evident here. His supporting cast members are ciphers(remember Shantal Wilsk? MJ's alleged "best friend" Jill Stacey?). His attempts at humor suck. When his main plots are duds like the interminable green ninja story arc, his subplots like the Black Tarantula/Rose gang war are a drag. Steve Skorce ending up being the least regular artist in the history of regular artist, with a lot of flat-out awful fill-in work by Joe Bennett and several different inkers. Mary Jane has NEVER been more of an one dimensional nagging house wife than she is in DeFalco's issues. This is an mediocre-to-awful run of Spider-Man comics that isn't worth anyone's time, and is best left forgotten.

And yet, Howard Mackie is even worse. In my eyes, he is the worst writer to ever grace the mainline Spider-Man comics. Its incredible to me after his X-Factor run, which is the absolute nadir of the entire genuinely unliked 90s X-men era, he failed upward to a Spider-Man title...with John Romita Jr/Scott Hana on art! A tragic waste of their wonderful polished work. Howard Mackie is just so, so bad at constructing personalities, at story construction, character/sub-plot development, and above all else, DIALOG. His syntax and grammar is unbelievable! There are pages and pages where I'm in shock at the awkward, stilted verbiage his characters constantly say! Like I said earlier, the artwork is great, but there's very little value here. And when you think it cant get any worse, you get to Peter Parker: Spider-Man #96, the middle chapter of Gathering of Five, one of the most hated Spider-Man stories of all-time. It has got to be the single worst Spider-Man comic of the 1990s. A parade of awful dialog, bland art, ill-conceived ideas, stupid character motivations, and a completely nonsensical story structure. This is a run of comics only for the most hardcore or morbidly curious of fans to check out. Outside Romita Jr's art, its worthless.

**Metamorphosis** · 08-09-2016, 11:24 PM