All-New Marvel is Starting to make me All-Pissed

[jackolover]

I wasn't crazy about the All New Marvel, but only the reboot, none of the other issues. If some of the books had made it obvious that the villains were conspicuous by their absence, and that something would be addressed on that matter, we would at least have had some sort of mystery to build towards Standoff and Civil War II. But now that CWII is creating this out of control train heading towards a divided universe, it's become a lot more interesting than the pretty lame way ALL NEW MARVEL started. It's got me wondering how Marvel intend to justify a precog as the justice system for super hero activity?

[Galerion]

Eh. Voted no but meant to vote yes. If a moderator who reads this could change it then I would be happy.

Don't care to add anything else to this discussion because it has been beaten to death and will accomplish nothing. Still have a nice day anyway.

[somacula]

OP is racist and should feel bad, also I think legacy characters should earn their mantles instead of receiving them on a silver platter

[regg215]

I think that one of the biggest problems with ANAD marvel is that the opinions about the new legacy characters are so extreme. It seems like with certain fans no matter what you say, if you are not a fan of the new version of the classic character like Riri Williams, Amadeus Cho, Sam Wilson or Jane Foster, you get accused of being a racist or bigot. While on the other side, any change made to any of the classic characters is automatically seen as some sort of PC agenda that is determined to destroy their childhood. The opinions on this issue are so far apart it is almost impossible to have any discussion without it turning into an argument about whether someone is racist or not. I mean one of the first things that Bendis said in his interview about Riri Williams taking over the role of Iron Man was that people who didn't like it are racists. I just find it sad that if you are upset about your favorite character being replaced that somehow makes you intolerant.

For Example my favorite Marvel Character always has and always will be Thor. I have no issue with Jane Foster, I think that it is great that Marvel has used her as a much needed prominent Female Character to draw in new readers. However I have always struggled with buying her book or supporting her character because her time in the spotlight came at the expense of my Favorite character. Having Odinson lose his worthiness with no explanation for years and having him basically lose the right to his name just struck me as insulting. I tried reading the series when it started but it was going out of it's way to try and show how much better Jane was than Odinson. Having villains surrender because they respected Jane too much and having Jane dispatch enemies with greater ease than Odinson ever did was just frustrating to see. I really wish that Marvel could have found a way to promote Jane without diminishing Odinson.It's great that Marvel is trying to show more diversity in it's characters, I just find it frustrating that if I am unhappy that my favorite character is replaced, it somehow makes me a misogynist. While there are some fans whose complaints are definitely motivated by bigotry or racism, I don't like that all fans who object to the changes are lumped in with those people.

[OttoMan]

Me? I don't care much about Marvel these days. They are slowly but surely losing me with these almost annual relaunches/reboots/restarts.

Isn't that what's been going on over at DC? Relaunch... Reboots... and Restarts???

[CaptCleghorn]

The only real difference here with ANAD and Marvel NOW 2.0 is that there are more books using non straight white males as replacement legacy characters. Jim Rhodes first took over as Iron Man a third of a century ago. Tony was a constant drunk who lost his company. None of these developments are anything that hasn't been done before. It's just that Cap, Hulk, Wolverine, Thor and others are experiencing it at the same time.

Marvel's done this for a full 60% of the modern Marvel Universe's existence. The difference isn't what, it's how much,

[Username taken]

Yes. Shouldn't there be a moratorium on these "I'm not racist but Marvel's really pissing me off with their diversity" threads? How many new threads on the same topic do we need where angry fans vent that their favorite characters have been stolen/replaced with females, people of color, etc.?

As a longtime Marvel fan who really loves current Marvel, it should be pointed out that these characters who have supposedly been taken away are still in play. Thor/Odinson will have his own book soon, Steve Rogers is still Cap, Tony Stark may soon step down as Iron Man but it's a safe bet that Marvel has big plans for him, Bruce Banner might be dead but solicits already hint that he may return soon courtesy of The Hand, and Wolverine might be dead but Old Man Logan should be old school enough to satisfy longtime fans looking for the "real" Wolverine.

If you really care about these characters and have been following them for years, I'd think it'd be interesting (as it is to me) to see them involved in stories that haven't been told a million times already. I'm excited to read The Unworthy Thor, I'm loving the Hydra Cap storyline, I'm eager to see where Tony's story is going, I'm excited to see how Bruce will return and what stories will follow, and Old Man Logan is a great Wolverine book - one that feels both classic and totally new at the same time.

Every fan has a right to their likes and dislikes but as someone who's been reading Marvel for decades, I love that change is a constant with these characters. It doesn't alienate me - it keeps me interested.

Quoted for truth.

[Carbon Based Stickler]

Yes. Shouldn't there be a moratorium on these "I'm not racist but Marvel's really pissing me off with their diversity" threads? How many new threads on the same topic do we need where angry fans vent that their favorite characters have been stolen/replaced with females, people of color, etc.?

As a longtime Marvel fan who really loves current Marvel, it should be pointed out that these characters who have supposedly been taken away are still in play. Thor/Odinson will have his own book soon, Steve Rogers is still Cap, Tony Stark may soon step down as Iron Man but it's a safe bet that Marvel has big plans for him, Bruce Banner might be dead but solicits already hint that he may return soon courtesy of The Hand, and Wolverine might be dead but Old Man Logan should be old school enough to satisfy longtime fans looking for the "real" Wolverine.

If you really care about these characters and have been following them for years, I'd think it'd be interesting (as it is to me) to see them involved in stories that haven't been told a million times already. I'm excited to read The Unworthy Thor, I'm loving the Hydra Cap storyline, I'm eager to see where Tony's story is going, I'm excited to see how Bruce will return and what stories will follow, and Old Man Logan is a great Wolverine book - one that feels both classic and totally new at the same time.

Every fan has a right to their likes and dislikes but as someone who's been reading Marvel for decades, I love that change is a constant with these characters. It doesn't alienate me - it keeps me interested.

What he said.

[Matternativ]

Yes. Shouldn't there be a moratorium on these "I'm not racist but Marvel's really pissing me off with their diversity" threads? How many new threads on the same topic do we need where angry fans vent that their favorite characters have been stolen/replaced with females, people of color, etc.?

As a longtime Marvel fan who really loves current Marvel, it should be pointed out that these characters who have supposedly been taken away are still in play. Thor/Odinson will have his own book soon, Steve Rogers is still Cap, Tony Stark may soon step down as Iron Man but it's a safe bet that Marvel has big plans for him, Bruce Banner might be dead but solicits already hint that he may return soon courtesy of The Hand, and Wolverine might be dead but Old Man Logan should be old school enough to satisfy longtime fans looking for the "real" Wolverine.

If you really care about these characters and have been following them for years, I'd think it'd be interesting (as it is to me) to see them involved in stories that haven't been told a million times already. I'm excited to read The Unworthy Thor, I'm loving the Hydra Cap storyline, I'm eager to see where Tony's story is going, I'm excited to see how Bruce will return and what stories will follow, and Old Man Logan is a great Wolverine book - one that feels both classic and totally new at the same time.

Every fan has a right to their likes and dislikes but as someone who's been reading Marvel for decades, I love that change is a constant with these characters. It doesn't alienate me - it keeps me interested.

You, I like you.

I think that one of the biggest problems with ANAD marvel is that the opinions about the new legacy characters are so extreme. It seems like with certain fans no matter what you say, if you are not a fan of the new version of the classic character like Riri Williams, Amadeus Cho, Sam Wilson or Jane Foster, you get accused of being a racist or bigot. While on the other side, any change made to any of the classic characters is automatically seen as some sort of PC agenda that is determined to destroy their childhood. The opinions on this issue are so far apart it is almost impossible to have any discussion without it turning into an argument about whether someone is racist or not. I mean one of the first things that Bendis said in his interview about Riri Williams taking over the role of Iron Man was that people who didn't like it are racists. I just find it sad that if you are upset about your favorite character being replaced that somehow makes you intolerant.

For Example my favorite Marvel Character always has and always will be Thor. I have no issue with Jane Foster, I think that it is great that Marvel has used her as a much needed prominent Female Character to draw in new readers. However I have always struggled with buying her book or supporting her character because her time in the spotlight came at the expense of my Favorite character. Having Odinson lose his worthiness with no explanation for years and having him basically lose the right to his name just struck me as insulting. I tried reading the series when it started but it was going out of it's way to try and show how much better Jane was than Odinson. Having villains surrender because they respected Jane too much and having Jane dispatch enemies with greater ease than Odinson ever did was just frustrating to see. I really wish that Marvel could have found a way to promote Jane without diminishing Odinson.It's great that Marvel is trying to show more diversity in it's characters, I just find it frustrating that if I am unhappy that my favorite character is replaced, it somehow makes me a misogynist. While there are some fans whose complaints are definitely motivated by bigotry or racism, I don't like that all fans who object to the changes are lumped in with those people.

Fair enough. It's kinda the same with my Boy Barton. Just that it's more obvious how much better his Protege is supposed to be by how they portrayed him compared to her. In the End, both came off as rather incompetent in their Book (Lemires, not Fractions). At least Odinson gets "only" outshined and not additionally downplayed for no good reason.

Still, with the exceptions of those two other Legacy Heroes and their Counterparts have still their Solo Series going on and both of them will actually get new Comics soon which presents another Opportunity for them to show off how worthy they are.

All in all I am content with how things are, certain developments in CWII aside.

[Cowtools]

Yes. Shouldn't there be a moratorium on these "I'm not racist but Marvel's really pissing me off with their diversity" threads? How many new threads on the same topic do we need where angry fans vent that their favorite characters have been stolen/replaced with females, people of color, etc.?

As a longtime Marvel fan who really loves current Marvel, it should be pointed out that these characters who have supposedly been taken away are still in play. Thor/Odinson will have his own book soon, Steve Rogers is still Cap, Tony Stark may soon step down as Iron Man but it's a safe bet that Marvel has big plans for him, Bruce Banner might be dead but solicits already hint that he may return soon courtesy of The Hand, and Wolverine might be dead but Old Man Logan should be old school enough to satisfy longtime fans looking for the "real" Wolverine.

If you really care about these characters and have been following them for years, I'd think it'd be interesting (as it is to me) to see them involved in stories that haven't been told a million times already. I'm excited to read The Unworthy Thor, I'm loving the Hydra Cap storyline, I'm eager to see where Tony's story is going, I'm excited to see how Bruce will return and what stories will follow, and Old Man Logan is a great Wolverine book - one that feels both classic and totally new at the same time.

Every fan has a right to their likes and dislikes but as someone who's been reading Marvel for decades, I love that change is a constant with these characters. It doesn't alienate me - it keeps me interested.

Came in here to say more-or-less exactly this. But I wanted to highlight that one sentence particularly.

The thing that gets me about these 'I'm not against diversity BUT' threads is that they seem to have no relation to the actual quality of the books. It's not as if the Jane!Thor, Hydra!Cap, Riri!Man and ANAD Avengers books are written by hacks and illustrated by scrubs. They have some of the best writers and artists around (and also Bendis), with fast moving plots, that are rich in Marvel lore, and packed with jokes and easter eggs.
And these so-called 'SJW' books that people like to complain about - Ms Marvel, Squirrel-Girl, Hellcat, Moon Girl, etc - may not have art and writing styles that are to everybody's taste, but they're appropriate for the characters, which is what matter most.

[Xelossik]

I like some titles ... I don't like others...
All new Wolverine or Uncanny Avengers are great

[DUSt]

I'm excited with what MARVEL tends to release, since (in my opinion) their weirdest and most unlikely to succeed concepts usually tend to result in their best books: I.E., Flash Thompson as Venom, the Superior Spider-Man, Miles Morales, the death of Wolverine, Secret Wars, Ms. marvel, the Vision family, Sam Alexander as Nova, Silk, the All-New X-Men, Old Man Logan, etc.

I'm sorry that you're unhappy with the current roster of books, but I hope you will give one a chance at least (if you haven't already). To be honest, I'm more annoyed that we're going to be getting another big status-quo shake up with Super Civil War II Turbo despite that there's no real status quo to shake up.

[The Negative Zone]

It seems like with certain fans no matter what you say, if you are not a fan of the new version of the classic character like Riri Williams, Amadeus Cho, Sam Wilson or Jane Foster, you get accused of being a racist or bigot.

That's not true. It depends on how you phrase your dislike.

[Iconic]

I'm just glad Marvel is no longer pandering to that old way of thinking.

[Ken Ashcroft]

The only real difference here with ANAD and Marvel NOW 2.0 is that there are more books using non straight white males as replacement legacy characters. Jim Rhodes first took over as Iron Man a third of a century ago. Tony was a constant drunk who lost his company. None of these developments are anything that hasn't been done before. It's just that Cap, Hulk, Wolverine, Thor and others are experiencing it at the same time.

Marvel's done this for a full 60% of the modern Marvel Universe's existence. The difference isn't what, it's how much,

The difference now is that we have the Internet and social media where even the smallest and seemingly insignificant things can instantly be commented on and shared with. Everything that Marvel (or DC) does is scrutinise in detail now and I would say that they used to take a lot more risk and more controversial changes in the past but apart from writing letters to them, fans then had no outlet to vent and share their opinions and anger unlike today.