SuperSons Cancelled! Jon Experiment Showing Signs of Failing! New52 Superman to the Rescue?

[Superlad93]

I can't think of anyone and he at least was rumored to have something to do with Rebirth via a message he posted on twitter. Thus far we've yet to see his name attached to any Rebirth title. I think it's a plausible guess anyway.

Interesting. What on his Twitter made people think he had something to do with Rebirth?

Edit: never mind, I just saw his post. https://twitter.com/JHickman/status/...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

At this point I'm like



If he's for real then I'll read literally any book he puts out at DC with a cape. But I REALLY hope it's Superman. Like wouldn't it be amazing to have the stars line up just right and we have good and consistent Superman books AND Hickman writing a Superman related book AND Tom King writing a Superman book (long term) AND Millar doing his Superman project AND Landis coming back for Agent of Batman!!!

[SuperCrab]

I also dont understand why the op is fixated on New-52 Superman, why not just ask for a Superman book without the wife and the son?

Actually, I did ask for a Superman book featuring the Superman we call SuperDad without the wife and the kid. It wasn't my first choice, but if they were going to kill off new52 Superman and replace him with this other Superman, and if there was no getting around that, then having a separate title where Superman had adventures that didn't involve the son, and perhaps had a gritty more adult tone, would have been a natural for me to subscribe to. I brought the possibility up several times on the forum when this all started (I'm not blaming anyone for not seeing it or forgetting, I don't read or remember every post on every thread either).

However, I'm not sure if it would be enough anymore. I'd have to think about it. Why? Because I feel like they've spent months and months really taking fans like me for granted and trashing our Superman and dancing on his grave. I have a lot of bad feelings about it, and I'm not sure I want to give them my money for something that's less than what I really want to read. If they had simply from the beginning with Rebirth said something like "Superman is about SuperDad, Lois, and Jon. Action Comics features that same Superman from the other title, but has stories that will never involve Jon in anything more than passing.", I would have probably kept my Action Comics subscription. Because, at some level, I do see your point that if the kid is out of the book and they are telling stories that could be about any single Superman, why should I get too hung up over which Superman it *technically* is or isn't? But they didn't take that tact.

I'm rapidly getting too jaded to really respond to anything except either the return of new52 Superman with his own title, or a total reboot. There was certainly a time when I would have, though. DC Comics really mishandled this one big time if they ever wanted to keep the audience that enjoyed new52 Superman and that would not enjoy a comic about SuperDad and his SuperSon. They could have tossed bones at us that would have retained us at the time because we wanted to stick with Superman in some form, but they didn't, and now it's a harder road to hoe, because they kind of would have to persuade me from the ground up that whatever they do is worth getting instead of just me saying out of inertia "Um, okay, I'll keep the one book, because it's the closest to what I had before and I don't want to give up all my subs". But now those subs are long gone, so psychologically, it would now be a question of starting something again rather than just continuing it- and it'd have been much more of a cinche that I'd have just continued if they'd give us a title with something that'd at least a little appeal to my tastes rather than basically saying "Everything is about SuperJon and SuperDad, take it or leave it.".

it's this clinging on to some specific version that annoys the hell out to me.

Well, for me, I have most of the new52 run of Superman in the majority of books related to him. I liked that guy, I liked his history and backstory and personality. And even if you create a similar or a better (subjectively speaking- better for me) Superman one day, that he doesn't remember those stories and can't follow up on them or refer to them as having lived them matters for me. In a way, if the memories are there, it can sort of be the same guy. If the memories are not there, it's not. So, the version matters.

But I'm not saying I wouldn't read like an alt-universe monthly about a Superman who is neither new52 Superman or SuperDad, but is more like new52 Superman than the other guy, and maybe an even edgier version than new52 Superman was in reality (A 17+ rated book?) and who doesn't have a superhero son or sidekick. I'd probably give that book a try. I don't think they'll do it. But I'd consider reading it. If it had launched simultaneous with SuperDad, I'd probably have subscribed and still be subscribed. Now, I wouldn't promise, but I'd look into it- assuming I even would hear about it. I am drifting away from following comic book news and posting to this forum, and eventually I probably won't be really doing either on a regular basis if the current "creative" trends continue. I'm just not into DC Comics' current product at all. My last subs are Marvel and Image, and the Marvel ones are either ones with already announced end dates or that aren't selling well and may be cancelled. So I really could just wind up out of comic books completely if something new doesn't catch my eye soon.

Yes Post Crisis Superman fan are also guilty of this, DC should attempt to reconcile the different versions and eras' of Superman like the Bat office has done with Batman. Everything should count as far as I'm concerned.

It'd be better than pretending new52 Superman didn't happen. At least if they gave SuperDad his memories and a hint of his personality, they'd have the option of picking up old storylines and relationships (I don't mean with Wonder Woman or in the romantic sense, I just mean in general like you have relationships with friends and enemies and co-workers) from the new52 era from time to time, and we could think of a combined Superman as sort of the current version of both of the last two Supermen, and them both as his past. If they'd done that from day one, they'd probably have kept me, too. But I'm getting past the point where that works for me enough to get me back on board, I think. Time passes and I realize DC Comics has no loyalty to me and I have no loyalty to them and I just have sour feelings when I think about the whole thing, and so it's going to be hard to shell out my limited dollars to pay them for anything that I am kind of "Meh" on. At this point, I may really need almost exactly what I want- a dedicated new52 Superman book- to come back. I'm not saying for sure, but that's kind of the way I'm feeling now, and it wasn't where I was at a few months ago. I was willing to settle for a lot less if necessary to "stay" on-board with Superman in some way, but now that I'm off, it's going to be harder to get me back on. Just how things are.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

My question, then, is: why are some people so averse to seeing Superman as a husband and father?? Seriously, is an entire section of the Superman fanbase simply made up of miniature Joe Quesadas?

Newsflash, people! Supes and Lois have been married since the 90s. You guys had to know that a biological child was gonna be coming along at some point. I wasn't on these forums when Chris Kent, their adopted son, was a part of the picture. Was there this much backlash during those days?

[manofsteel1979]

My question, then, is: why are some people so averse to seeing Superman as a husband and father?? Seriously, is an entire section of the Superman fanbase simply made up of miniatVe Joe Quesadas?

Newsflash, people! Supes and Lois have been married since the 90s. You guys had to know that a biological child was gonna be coming along at some point. I wasn't on these forums when Chris Kent, their adopted son, was a part of the picture. Was there this much backlash during those days?

I wasn't here when all the Chris Kent stuff went down,so I can't speak to that. I myself though was all for it and am still personally all for Superman as a husband and father.

However,with most people who are critical of this status quo,it isn't so much about the idea of Superman as a dad or about Jon himself (the OP being the notable exception of course), it's more about how it came to pass. I.E. the underwhelming nature of Nuperman's demise and the subsequent cut and paste sloppy way of bringing in the current Superman,something that was and is at the present time unresolved and needlessly convoluted. I personally am enjoying the stories but there's a huge elephant in the room that will eventually need being addressed before things can move on.

[Chris24601]

My question, then, is: why are some people so averse to seeing Superman as a husband and father?? Seriously, is an entire section of the Superman fanbase simply made up of miniature Joe Quesadas?

Newsflash, people! Supes and Lois have been married since the 90s. You guys had to know that a biological child was gonna be coming along at some point. I wasn't on these forums when Chris Kent, their adopted son, was a part of the picture. Was there this much backlash during those days?

The other thing that annoys me is this notion that Superman sans wife and son would somehow allow more 'adult' stories.

My Newsflash is that all the work that goes into maintaining a marriage and raising children is what defines an adult for the vast majority of the planet. The only thing more adult would be if one or both of Clark's aging parents was still alive with recurring health and/or financial issues that required Clark's periodic attention while balancing the needs of his own family and his two jobs.

Single Superman banging an Amazon demigoddess with no familial or normal job responsibilities whatsoever is the height of adolescent fantasy and basically the opposite of adulthood.

[Agniwolf]

My question, then, is: why are some people so averse to seeing Superman as a husband and father?? Seriously, is an entire section of the Superman fanbase simply made up of miniature Joe Quesadas?

Newsflash, people! Supes and Lois have been married since the 90s. You guys had to know that a biological child was gonna be coming along at some point. I wasn't on these forums when Chris Kent, their adopted son, was a part of the picture. Was there this much backlash during those days?

no it wouldnt, because, biologicaly (if one can apply any logic to comics at all) superman is not human, in fact unless it is stated in comic one does not even know if he belongs in the animalia kingdom at all, not to mention being a mammal. he could not impregnate lois just as a spider cannot impregnate a whale or a tuna impregnate a tiger

the only thing we know for sure is that:
a) he is from an anthropomorphic "race"
b) there are very few "races" across the comic verse that are genetically compatible (like almeracians)
c) godlike beigns can "cheat" their way through this cause of the nature of divine blood (a god and some demigods can impregnate anything it has sex with, mithology is there to "prove" it)

so no jon was never expected chris was meant to be their son and was just discarted, it is amusing to see such support to jon but no one cares for a child being throw in the trash (analogically, that is)

[steeplejack2112]

I usually stay out of the Superman forum because he is my all-time favorite character and always will be.

That being said, I can understand the frustration. When the New 52 came about I admit to being guilty of lashing out at pretty much all of it, especially the changes in Superman. I still dislike pretty much everything about the New 52 version of Superman, but I never dropped the books. Now with the return of well....whoever the hell this turns out to be....I'm still not all the way happy with things, but things are looking up a bit. I guess my point here, and if I don't make sense feel free to tell me I don't, is that things eventually get better. Are they going to return to what you really enjoyed? Probably not. Any fans dislike of a direction is understandable. What I have personally learned is that wanting something to fail completely is not constructive thought processing. Nowadays if I don't like it I don't buy it. Something I never thought I would get used to especially when it comes to DC. If I don't like it or buy it then so be it....but I also don't wish for it to be an utter failure.

[andersonh1]

The other thing that annoys me is this notion that Superman sans wife and son would somehow allow more 'adult' stories.

My Newsflash is that all the work that goes into maintaining a marriage and raising children is what defines an adult for the vast majority of the planet. The only thing more adult would be if one or both of Clark's aging parents was still alive with recurring health and/or financial issues that required Clark's periodic attention while balancing the needs of his own family and his two jobs.

Single Superman banging an Amazon demigoddess with no familial or normal job responsibilities whatsoever is the height of adolescent fantasy and basically the opposite of adulthood.

Well said.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

no it wouldnt, because, biologicaly (if one can apply any logic to comics at all) superman is not human, in fact unless it is stated in comic one does not even know if he belongs in the animalia kingdom at all, not to mention being a mammal. he could not impregnate lois just as a spider cannot impregnate a whale or a tuna impregnate a tiger

the only thing we know for sure is that:
a) he is from an anthropomorphic "race"
b) there are very few "races" across the comic verse that are genetically compatible (like almeracians)
c) godlike beigns can "cheat" their way through this cause of the nature of divine blood (a god and some demigods can impregnate anything it has sex with, mithology is there to "prove" it)

so no jon was never expected chris was meant to be their son and was just discarted, it is amusing to see such support to jon but no one cares for a child being throw in the trash (analogically, that is)

Just from a simple storytelling standpoint, people had to know that a child was coming. Pretty much any time there has been a "interracial" couple in the way that Clark and Lois are, there's always been some way to overcome the whole "incompatibility" obstacle to create a baby. Hell, its even been a part of several non-canon/1950s Superman stories, whether it was with Lois or with Wonder Woman. It was only a matter of time before they incorporated it into the main DC Universe. And, honestly, I applaud them for doing so. So many times, DC and Marvel have shied away from making one of their flagship heroes into a parent or a husband/wife. Or even roll back such a development when it does happen. In fact, I'm sure the only reason Damien is allowed to still exist is that the circumstances of his birth make it so that Batman still doesn't have to "settle down" with Talia. But either way, it just feels right for Superman to be a father. He's always sort of acted like a big brother to the other heroes of the DC Universe.

[Agniwolf]

Just from a simple storytelling standpoint, people had to know that a child was coming. Pretty much any time there has been a "interracial" couple in the way that Clark and Lois are, there's always been some way to overcome the whole "incompatibility" obstacle to create a baby. Hell, its even been a part of several non-canon/1950s Superman stories, whether it was with Lois or with Wonder Woman. It was only a matter of time before they incorporated it into the main DC Universe. And, honestly, I applaud them for doing so. So many times, DC and Marvel have shied away from making one of their flagship heroes into a parent or a husband/wife. Or even roll back such a development when it does happen. In fact, I'm sure the only reason Damien is allowed to still exist is that the circumstances of his birth make it so that Batman still doesn't have to "settle down" with Talia. But, in the case of Superman, it just feels right for him to be a father.

firstly adoptive or not, parents are still parents and chris was fairly recent but he was just forsaken in the oblivion (not to mention that supes himself is an adopted figure). secondly the storytelling context from 40~80 was entirely different from nowadays, but again, can one really apply biology (or any science whatsoever) to comics?

[Sacred Knight]

There was quite a good reason for fans to actually never expect a child for Lois and Clark to happen. Narratively it made sense back in the day, but DC went out of their way all the time to make sure it would never happen, harping on that stupid incompatibility concept. They gave every indication they never wanted it, at least not in the main ongoing continuity. That was always future and Elseworlds territory. So from their storytelling standpoint at least, there's a much better argument to be made that there was no reason to expect it. Futhermore when it finally happened in Convergence it made all the sense in the world at the time that the only reason it was finally allowed was because they were no longer part of the current continuity so it really didn't matter what they did. That they were planning to move heaven and earth and cause absolute creative chaos just to finally make it all happen in a continuity where the idea was no longer supportable at the current stage of the timeline was completely unanticipated.

As for Chris, I'd be surprised if it got the level of backlash some fans are giving this decision. Because, at least back then fans who didn't like the idea of Superman as a father could hang on the hope that the kid would eventually just go away. He was a foster child, and came from the Phantom Zone, a concept that long has also been used as a place to jettison ideas, so he could easily be written out if necessary. And sure enough he eventually was to little fanfare. This is different though. This is not only a biological child but a child taking the mantle of Superboy. Fans who both like and dislike the idea alike can see the writing on the wall: this character is going absolutely nowhere and pretty much can't ever go away outside another reboot or killing him off. So if one happens to not be a fan of the idea, you know you're stuck with it anyway.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

firstly adoptive or not, parents are still parents and chris was fairly recent but he was just forsaken in the oblivion (not to mention that supes himself is an adopted figure).

I wasn't even talking about Chris just then or even the possibility of adoption. But regardless of whether or not Chris should have been a permanent fixture in the Superman comics, a biological child of Clark and Lois is something that's come up multiple times. So, its not completely out of left field for them to bring it into the mainstream continuity.

secondly the storytelling context from 40~80 was entirely different from nowadays, but again, can one really apply biology (or any science whatsoever) to comics?

I wasn't referring to JUST stories from the 50s. A human-Kryptionian child of Lois and Superman has been seen in a LOT of stories from the 90s and 2000s. Stories like Son of Superman (2000), JLA: Created Equal (2000), Adventures of Superman #638 (2005), Injustice: Gods Among Us (2013). And, of course, let's not forget the famous example of him having MULTIPLE children with Wonder Woman in Kingdom Come.

Honestly, I hope that Clark and Lois have even more kids. It would be awesome to see Superman actually BE a family man, in my opinion. That would just make for some awesome and relatable storytelling. Imagine Modern Family, but with superheroes (and obviously less comedy and more drama).

[Sacred Knight]

I kinda have a feeling Jon will be an only child. In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if they find out they CAN'T have another child. Jon was born under special circumstances (the properties of the dome essentially making Clark human), and its very possible those special circumstances are the only reason he was able to be conceived, and that they'll keep that post-Crisis incompatibility concept. He's supposed to be a wunderkind in his own right, and making him not only an only child but the only possible child of a Kryptonian and a human makes the special factor go up.

If Jon has any siblings they'll be half-siblings later in life in Rebirths Kingdom-Come-like future.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I wasn't here when all the Chris Kent stuff went down,so I can't speak to that. I myself though was all for it and am still personally all for Superman as a husband and father.

However,with most people who are critical of this status quo,it isn't so much about the idea of Superman as a dad or about Jon himself (the OP being the notable exception of course), it's more about how it came to pass. I.E. the underwhelming nature of Nuperman's demise and the subsequent cut and paste sloppy way of bringing in the current Superman,something that was and is at the present time unresolved and needlessly convoluted. I personally am enjoying the stories but there's a huge elephant in the room that will eventually need being addressed before things can move on.

I've seen at least one person on here explain that their distaste for the current status quo is that this Superman is "married and boring." But to be honest, people with that opinion probably don't even know what marriage is really like.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

If Jon has any siblings they'll be step-siblings later in life in Rebirths Kingdom-Come-like future.

Minor nitpick, I know, but those would be half-siblings dude.