Wonder Woman and Marvel's Hercules

[Spidercide]

We all know DC's Hercules has a bad history with the Amazons. But how would they and Diana react if they encountered Marvel's very different interpretation of Hercules?

[Agent Z]

I can see them being suspicious at first but growing more at ease to him after a while. His casual sexism might be a huge turn off though.

[Vanguard-01]

They met in the Avengers/JLA crossover years ago.

Diana attacked him the second she heard his name, calling him "Despoiler of Hippolyta!" in reference to the fact that in the DCU, Heracles raped her mother.

It seemed quite out of character for Diana, to me. For one thing, by the time this story took place, Diana had already met DCU Heracles. She freed him from his punishment beneath Paradise Island. He humbled himself before the Amazons and asked their forgiveness for what he did to them in the past. Hippolyta forgave him, and it even looked like there may have been a romantic attraction between them at the time.

There didn't seem to be much reason for Diana to continue to hold a grudge toward Hercules. The fact that this was a completely different Hercules than the one she knew also made it an odd thing for Diana. It was certainly unusual for Diana to just go directly to violence against a guy who wasn't making any hostile moves of his own, if I remember correctly.

If I recall correctly, I brought this up years ago, and at the time Kurt Busiek was posting on this forum. He actually addressed my concern directly, and I seem to recall being satisfied with his explanation. Sadly, that explanation disappeared when the board reset, so I can't recall his explanation any more.

[DiceRoll]

I wanna say it was something about how the two worlds combining was causing everyone to act more aggressive (see Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe) or something like that.

[Agent Z]

They met in the Avengers/JLA crossover years ago.

Diana attacked him the second she heard his name, calling him "Despoiler of Hippolyta!" in reference to the fact that in the DCU, Heracles raped her mother.

It seemed quite out of character for Diana, to me. For one thing, by the time this story took place, Diana had already met DCU Heracles. She freed him from his punishment beneath Paradise Island. He humbled himself before the Amazons and asked their forgiveness for what he did to them in the past. Hippolyta forgave him, and it even looked like there may have been a romantic attraction between them at the time.

There didn't seem to be much reason for Diana to continue to hold a grudge toward Hercules. The fact that this was a completely different Hercules than the one she knew also made it an odd thing for Diana. It was certainly unusual for Diana to just go directly to violence against a guy who wasn't making any hostile moves of his own, if I remember correctly.

If I recall correctly, I brought this up years ago, and at the time Kurt Busiek was posting on this forum. He actually addressed my concern directly, and I seem to recall being satisfied with his explanation. Sadly, that explanation disappeared when the board reset, so I can't recall his explanation any more.

If I recall correctly, the merging of the two universes was making some characters act violent and hostile to each other, so Diana who would have been more cordial, attacked a Hercules who had nothing to with what happened to her people.

Also, while Hercules and the Anazons had made peace under Perez pen, Byrne had him return as an antagonist in his run. So that might have been a factor.

[Vanguard-01]

I wanna say it was something about how the two worlds combining was causing everyone to act more aggressive (see Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe) or something like that.

Could be.

Or it may have been something more like the transition from the two worlds could confuse your brain and mess with your memories somewhat. Diana may have not remembered that she made peace with Heracles at the time.

If I recall correctly, the merging of the two universes was making some characters act violent and hostile to each other, so Diana who would have been more cordial, attacked a Hercules who had nothing to with what happened to her people.

Also, while Hercules and the Anazons had made peace under Perez pen, Byrne had him return as an antagonist in his run. So that might have been a factor.

Yeah, it was probably something like that.

Although the Byrne explanation wouldn't seem quite right either. Yeah, Heracles went back to being a problem for her, but Diana's the forgiving type. She might be mad at him for what he did during the Byrne run, but she and the other Amazons forgave him for his past crimes, so dredging those back up would make it seem like Diana hasn't really forgiven him at all.

I think it was just the aggression/faulty memory thing.

[WonderScott]

I'd like to see the DCU version of Heracles return as an adversary/anti-hero to Wonder Woman. I know he showed up in an Aquaman annual, but I'd like to see him restablished in the Wonder Woman title.

[theoneandonly]

their dynamic will have changed as now Dianna is Zeus daughter and thus half sister of Hercules so he might consider her as a sister or as a contender for Zeus throne and so he could try to aid her or oppose her.

[Agent Z]

their dynamic will have changed as now Dianna is Zeus daughter and thus half sister of Hercules so he might consider her as a sister or as a contender for Zeus throne and so he could try to aid her or oppose her.

He alternated between ally and enemy in the old continuity, so that might not change.

[daBronzeBomma]

Holy crap ... how did I not make the connection before?

If Wonder Woman is on par with both Superman & Batman (and she is), and

if Steve Trevor is on par with Lois Lane (and he is)



then ...

Herakles is on par with Catwoman.




Which leads to such a great idea I'll be surprised if DC has never tried it in-canon:


Love triangle! Or I guess, Love V-shape! Steve Trevor/Diana/Herakles!


Herakles should be the morally grey option with some charm, the similarly talented Superman/Batman-body type, classically being both taller and beefier than her, who simultaneously understands and mocks Diana's worldview, for whom Diana is equally repulsed and fascinated by.

Steve Trevor should be the clear-cut compassionate option with some flaws, the completely contrasting Dick Grayson-body-type, ideally being both shorter and leaner than her, who simultaneously challenges and expands Diana's worldview, for whom Diana is equally frustrated and inspired by.

[Agent Z]

Holy crap ... how did I not make the connection before?

If Wonder Woman is on par with both Superman & Batman (and she is), and

if Steve Trevor is on par with Lois Lane (and he is)



then ...

Herakles is on par with Catwoman.




Which leads to such a great idea I'll be surprised if DC has never tried it in-canon:


Love triangle! Or I guess, Love V-shape! Steve Trevor/Diana/Herakles!


Herakles should be the morally grey option with some charm, the similarly talented Superman/Batman-body type, classically being both taller and beefier than her, who simultaneously understands and mocks Diana's worldview, for whom Diana is equally repulsed and fascinated by.

Steve Trevor should be the clear-cut compassionate option with some flaws, the completely contrasting Dick Grayson-body-type, ideally being both shorter and leaner than her, who simultaneously challenges and expands Diana's worldview, for whom Diana is equally frustrated and inspired by.

Um, no thanks. Diana does not need to be in a love triangle with the guy who had her people enslaved and raped. The reason the Catwoman/Batman dynamic works is because she (for the most part) has standards.

[daBronzeBomma]

Um, no thanks. Diana does not need to be in a love triangle with the guy who had her people enslaved and raped. The reason the Catwoman/Batman dynamic works is because she (for the most part) has standards.

Is that canon in the DCU? And if so, wasn't Herakles forgiven at some point? Seems like he wouldn't be running around free if he wasn't at least partially redeemed.

Fine, if there's too much baggage with Herakles and the Amazons, then swap him out with another Greek demigod, I dunno ... Achilles? Adonis?

The point is that Steve Trevor should have competition as a supporting character and it should be his opposite, someone who represents the classic Greco-Roman uber-male. Someone who has a much better understanding of the Greek pantheon than Trevor ever will.

[Agent Z]

Is that canon in the DCU? And if so, wasn't Herakles forgiven at some point? Seems like he wouldn't be running around free if he wasn't at least partially redeemed.

Fine, if there's too much baggage with Herakles and the Amazons, then swap him out with another Greek demigod, I dunno ... Achilles? Adonis?

The point is that Steve Trevor should have competition as a supporting character and it should be his opposite, someone who represents the classic Greco-Roman uber-male. Someone who has a much better understanding of the Greek pantheon than Trevor ever will.

Yes it's canon. Heracles was forgiven then went back to being a villain.

Honest question: why? What does yet another tedious love triangle add to Wonder Woman?

[Vanguard-01]

Yes it's canon. Heracles was forgiven then went back to being a villain.

Indeed. Heinberg even went so far as to have Heracles attempt to add DIANA to his list of rape victims.

Honest question: why? What does yet another tedious love triangle add to Wonder Woman?

Yep.

Love triangles are all about the woman being undecided about which interest she wants. That's not who Diana is supposed to be. She's supposed to be a strong and independent lady who doesn't need a man, but if she wants a man, she knows who she wants and what she wants from him.

[theoneandonly]

yes the superman/diana/steve love triangle was nothing to write home about.