"Updating an iconic romance"

[Jean Grey]

This was a wonderful read and I agree so much.

Thanks, MarvelMaster616.



This wasn't because of the Phoenix or the storyline of the Phoenix, it was in spite of it and everything that came after it. It was a direct response to everything that came before it. Outside of Angel, because all he had were wings, when the X-Men were initially created she was portrayed as the weakest team member. Cyclops' girlfriend. And that's where the 90's cartoon picked it up from.

All throughout the 70's, 80's and a lot of the 90's Jean's characterization was about her reclaiming who she was as a person and deliberately not wanting to be that damsel in distress. That was literally the point of Grant Morrison's new x-men, even if it led to editorial demanding she stay dead.

It definitely wasn't because of the Phoenix that she played the girlfriend and damsel roles.

Huh? I said that the writers started writing her in a way that she became her own character and the focus of the team, therefore in a way she became bigger than Cyclops (The leader of the xmen) so her being paired with him was somewhat of an "equal terms" couple where neither got swallowed by the other's storyline. Which is a bit of a stretch, as Cyclops' manpain started because of Jean, and has been his thing since then.

[Harpsikord]

Huh? I said that the writers started writing her in a way that she became her own character and the focus of the team, therefore in a way she became bigger than Cyclops (The leader of the xmen) so her being paired with him was somewhat of an "equal terms" couple where neither got swallowed by the other's storyline. Which is a bit of a stretch, as Cyclops' manpain started because of Jean, and has been his thing since then.

I misunderstood your comment! Sorry!

[steeplejack2112]

Great article, and I definitely am glad someone acknowledges this relationship in a strong sense! Scott and Jean have always been one of my favorite couples. The only other coupling I would love to see reunite would be Kitty and Peter.

[Rivka]

Excellent article. Well written and thoughtful. I agree specifically about Scott and Jean, but I also like MM616's overall assessment of the status of relationships and romance in the current Marvel Universe. While so much has advanced and there is much more diversity and complexity today, it seems when it comes to relationships Marvel has moved backward to the 1960s, as if the only readers are 13-year-old boys who still find girls "icky."

Reading some of the other comments, I also agree (parenthetically) that under certain writers Jean was portrayed as an independent woman who began seeking her own identity apart from her role as Scott's wife--I think Lobdell did a good job writing Scott and Jean--but for the most part I don't remember Jean ever getting out from the shadow of one strong man or another. She may have distanced herself from Scott under Morrison's run, but she wasn't becoming her own woman. She was becoming Xavier's official heir, anointed cult leader, and wheelchair pusher.

[LocoSteve]

She may have distanced herself from Scott under Morrison's run, but she wasn't becoming her own woman. She was becoming Xavier's official heir, anointed cult leader, and wheelchair pusher.

I disagree. throughout the morrison run, Jean Grey was pretty much a boss a@# b@#$% in the morrison run. She became more confident in her phoenix abilities, she took charge in most situations, even though she was depressed over the status of her marriage, she didn't take crap from Scott or Emma. She was pretty much a badass woman who was becoming a more promising individual and headmistress of the Xavier school...until Xorneto screwed it up.

[LocoSteve]

The only other coupling I would love to see reunite would be Kitty and Peter.

But we already have a kitty and Peter. They're in space :P

[steeplejack2112]

But we already have a kitty and Peter. They're in space :P

Heh, you got me there, and as much as I love Peter Quill, that's not quite who I had in mind. Starkat isn't bad as a couple, but uh.....Katlossus is even more awesome!

[MarvelMaster616]

Excellent article. Well written and thoughtful. I agree specifically about Scott and Jean, but I also like MM616's overall assessment of the status of relationships and romance in the current Marvel Universe. While so much has advanced and there is much more diversity and complexity today, it seems when it comes to relationships Marvel has moved backward to the 1960s, as if the only readers are 13-year-old boys who still find girls "icky."

Reading some of the other comments, I also agree (parenthetically) that under certain writers Jean was portrayed as an independent woman who began seeking her own identity apart from her role as Scott's wife--I think Lobdell did a good job writing Scott and Jean--but for the most part I don't remember Jean ever getting out from the shadow of one strong man or another. She may have distanced herself from Scott under Morrison's run, but she wasn't becoming her own woman. She was becoming Xavier's official heir, anointed cult leader, and wheelchair pusher.

Thanks! I appreciate your support. I didn't just want to focus on the issue itself. I think Cyclops and Jean's relationship is part of a much larger picture and too many readers these days don't realize just how iconic their story is. If you started reading comics in 2000, you'd have little clue that their relationship has a foundation that goes all the way back to 1963. But I think you touched on something that's both telling and strange.

Marvel and DC are going through this big shift where they're trying to favor strong female characters. They're trying to shake things up and add more diversity. In the process, they've basically regressed in terms of meaningful romance. Pretty much every romantic sub-plot these days can be reduced to three things:

-Will they or won't they hook up?

-Will they or won't they break up?

-Who will come out ahead/screwed in this love triangle?

It's a very flat, very boring approach to romance. It also tends to denigrate one or both characters in the process. We saw this in the X-men movies where Jean Grey was reduced to a prize for Wolverine and Cyclops was reduced to a rival for Wolverine. That sort of approach benefits nobody because it limits the depth of every character involved.

I disagree. throughout the morrison run, Jean Grey was pretty much a boss a@# b@#$% in the morrison run. She became more confident in her phoenix abilities, she took charge in most situations, even though she was depressed over the status of her marriage, she didn't take crap from Scott or Emma. She was pretty much a badass woman who was becoming a more promising individual and headmistress of the Xavier school...until Xorneto screwed it up.

This is another issue that I think doesn't get discussed enough these days. There's no question that under Grant Morrison, Jean stepped up. However, despite Morrison's brilliance, he fell into an extremely common trap. He made it so in order for Jean Grey to step up, other men in her life, like Cyclops and Xavier, have to step aside or be marginalized. This is one of the reasons I have a hard time accepting the current approach to diversity and feminism, not just with Marvel, but with pop culture in general. There's this false assumption that in order for a woman to be strong, she has to denigrate or overshadow the men in her life. But that's just swapping one form of inequality for another. It doesn't fix anything.

Bowers and Sims succeed where Grant Morrison failed. They showed that it is possible for two characters to be on an equal playing field. Jean Grey can be a strong, independent woman without having to overpower and overrule Cyclops at every turn. In this issue, she doesn't force him to go along with helping Rachel. She doesn't have to. He just trusts her, as most people in a healthy relationship do. What a concept, right?

[ExodusCloak]

I'm sorry but you're entitled to your opinion on the various relationships but to try and use X-Men '92 as some sort of updated modernised version of their relationship is simply wrong. "Break his jaw baby" sounds fairly outdated and purposely used in the comic to give that 90's writing style feeling.

X-Men First Class volume 1 was actually a better done updated version of their relationship. As was X-Men Evolution. Far more modernised. Even That X-Men origins graphic by McKelvie graphic novel had a far superior updated version of the O5.

X-Men 92 is just one more reason why our X-Book line sucks.

[Legaldrugdealer]

I'm sorry but you're entitled to your opinion on the various relationships but to try and use X-Men '92 as some sort of updated modernised version of their relationship is simply wrong. "Break his jaw baby" sounds fairly outdated and purposely used in the comic to give that 90's writing style feeling.

X-Men First Class volume 1 was actually a better done updated version of their relationship. As was X-Men Evolution. Far more modernised. Even That X-Men origins graphic by McKelvie graphic novel had a far superior updated version of the O5.

X-Men 92 is just one more reason why our X-Book line sucks.

I think the mckelvie graphic novel was my favorite modern interpretation of their relationship

[LocoSteve]

Thanks! I appreciate your support. I didn't just want to focus on the issue itself. I think Cyclops and Jean's relationship is part of a much larger picture and too many readers these days don't realize just how iconic their story is. If you started reading comics in 2000, you'd have little clue that their relationship has a foundation that goes all the way back to 1963. But I think you touched on something that's both telling and strange.

Marvel and DC are going through this big shift where they're trying to favor strong female characters. They're trying to shake things up and add more diversity. In the process, they've basically regressed in terms of meaningful romance. Pretty much every romantic sub-plot these days can be reduced to three things:

-Will they or won't they hook up?

-Will they or won't they break up?

-Who will come out ahead/screwed in this love triangle?

It's a very flat, very boring approach to romance. It also tends to denigrate one or both characters in the process. We saw this in the X-men movies where Jean Grey was reduced to a prize for Wolverine and Cyclops was reduced to a rival for Wolverine. That sort of approach benefits nobody because it limits the depth of every character involved.



This is another issue that I think doesn't get discussed enough these days. There's no question that under Grant Morrison, Jean stepped up. However, despite Morrison's brilliance, he fell into an extremely common trap. He made it so in order for Jean Grey to step up, other men in her life, like Cyclops and Xavier, have to step aside or be marginalized. This is one of the reasons I have a hard time accepting the current approach to diversity and feminism, not just with Marvel, but with pop culture in general. There's this false assumption that in order for a woman to be strong, she has to denigrate or overshadow the men in her life. But that's just swapping one form of inequality for another. It doesn't fix anything.

Bowers and Sims succeed where Grant Morrison failed. They showed that it is possible for two characters to be on an equal playing field. Jean Grey can be a strong, independent woman without having to overpower and overrule Cyclops at every turn. In this issue, she doesn't force him to go along with helping Rachel. She doesn't have to. He just trusts her, as most people in a healthy relationship do. What a concept, right?

Jean wins every time

I didn't feel that Xavier was marginalized in morrisons run for the sake of Jean's character arc. Him stepping aside was more due to other conflicts( Cassandra nova, the aftermath of Quentin Quire's riot, etc). Cyclops I can see your point, though I wouldn't chalk it up to feminism or the such. It felt more like a common trope that has harmed the character of Cyclops in other interpretations and x-men runs ( with him being mopey about Jean) Its funny that-according to Morrison- that Cyclops was his favorite character, because to me he was the most boring protagonist of that run.

[Wiccan]

Excellent article. Well written and thoughtful. I agree specifically about Scott and Jean, but I also like MM616's overall assessment of the status of relationships and romance in the current Marvel Universe. While so much has advanced and there is much more diversity and complexity today, it seems when it comes to relationships Marvel has moved backward to the 1960s, as if the only readers are 13-year-old boys who still find girls "icky."

Reading some of the other comments, I also agree (parenthetically) that under certain writers Jean was portrayed as an independent woman who began seeking her own identity apart from her role as Scott's wife--I think Lobdell did a good job writing Scott and Jean--but for the most part I don't remember Jean ever getting out from the shadow of one strong man or another. She may have distanced herself from Scott under Morrison's run, but she wasn't becoming her own woman. She was becoming Xavier's official heir, anointed cult leader, and wheelchair pusher.

Lol, do you really think that "Xavier's official heir" status is a bad thing for an X-Men? Do you hate the guy or what?

[Rivka]

Lol, do you really think that "Xavier's official heir" status is a bad thing for an X-Men? Do you hate the guy or what?

I am not a fan of Charles Xavier. I could go on for pages about Xavier's hypocrisy and sins. As a female reader, who has been reading the X-MEN since the beginning (the 1960s), I didn't see Jean as strong under Morrison or improving her life, or becoming independent, since she was taking over as high priestess of the Xavier cult. In other words, her identity was based on how well she filled the roll of head-mistress and Xavier's mouthpiece, without being officially named the leader of the X-Men.

On the other hand, I understand where you're coming from. The X-MEN as a franchise, is founded on Xavier and his original five X-Men. It's a story about their fight for survival, and more recently a story about a school training mutants. I don't expect the writers can take any of their strong female characters and focus on them, send them on a solo adventure. (Claremont did this with Storm a couple of times; when she lost her powers and when she was de-aged. Storm was challenged to discover who she is and what's important to her. The Siege Perilous kind of threw Rogue into a new body and new role, challenging her to survive by herself in the Savage Land.)

Jean has never been off on her own, finding her own way and her own definition of who she is and what she's supposed to do with her life. Xavier found her when she was 10 years old, and has shaped her thinking every since. Scott as her love and husband, didn't have to be her template, definition, and direction in life, and he wasn't, and I don't think Scott Summers ever demonstrated he wanted to control her. But in the regular continuity comics even when Scott pulled back to let Jean have her space, she always went to another strong man; Xavier or Wolverine instead. Compare and contrast this with Rachel's depiction over the years. Jean has been written as passive and obedient for most of her appearances during the last 50+ years of X-Men.

We've never seen Jean go off on her own adventure without Scott, or under Morrison, she did not have any identity other than that conferred upon her by Xavier, and then Wolverine. Not until she becomes the Phoenix, and dead in the "white hot room" does she become independent of the men who define her.

But yeah, to me Xavier has always been an lying, manipulative, controlling SOB with high ideals and good intentions.

[LocoSteve]

As a female reader

That explains it.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Given that Marvel seems to be hinting at Scott/Emma, why not just bring back the real Wolverine and Jean and let them be together for a time, as much as I hate Scott/Jean and love Logan/Jean I know that eventually Scott and Jean will be back together, if that doesn't happen for a few years more what's the harm in having Jean and Logan together, who knows it could temper the whole triangle a bit...I always saw it as that Marvel and the writers never really tried Jean and Scott with anybody else so it got to the point where being with each other was all that was known for the two...