"Updating an iconic romance"

[MarvelMaster616]

Jean wins every time

I didn't feel that Xavier was marginalized in morrisons run for the sake of Jean's character arc. Him stepping aside was more due to other conflicts( Cassandra nova, the aftermath of Quentin Quire's riot, etc). Cyclops I can see your point, though I wouldn't chalk it up to feminism or the such. It felt more like a common trope that has harmed the character of Cyclops in other interpretations and x-men runs ( with him being mopey about Jean) Its funny that-according to Morrison- that Cyclops was his favorite character, because to me he was the most boring protagonist of that run.

I agree that Cyclops' marginalization was a lot more egregious. The fact that Morrison claimed that Cyclops was his favorite character makes that all the more distressing. Oddly enough, Axel Alonso claims that Cyclops is his favorite character and look what he's doing to him. I'm starting to wonder whether Marvel knows what it means for a character to be your "favorite."

I also do think that Xavier stepping aside, while not directly done for the sake of Jean, did come off at times as just a way to make him step aside. That seems to be a recurring theme for Xavier. Marvel can't seem to find a role for him so they do what they can to push him aside for other characters to step in. Again, it's the same flawed thinking, assuming that one character has to be denigrated for another to succeed. Why does that have to be the only method? Is there not room for both sides? X-men 92 #5 proved that it's possible so every X-men comic moving forward has no excuse.

I am not a fan of Charles Xavier. I could go on for pages about Xavier's hypocrisy and sins. As a female reader, who has been reading the X-MEN since the beginning (the 1960s), I didn't see Jean as strong under Morrison or improving her life, or becoming independent, since she was taking over as high priestess of the Xavier cult. In other words, her identity was based on how well she filled the roll of head-mistress and Xavier's mouthpiece, without being officially named the leader of the X-Men.

On the other hand, I understand where you're coming from. The X-MEN as a franchise, is founded on Xavier and his original five X-Men. It's a story about their fight for survival, and more recently a story about a school training mutants. I don't expect the writers can take any of their strong female characters and focus on them, send them on a solo adventure. (Claremont did this with Storm a couple of times; when she lost her powers and when she was de-aged. Storm was challenged to discover who she is and what's important to her. The Siege Perilous kind of threw Rogue into a new body and new role, challenging her to survive by herself in the Savage Land.)

Jean has never been off on her own, finding her own way and her own definition of who she is and what she's supposed to do with her life. Xavier found her when she was 10 years old, and has shaped her thinking every since. Scott as her love and husband, didn't have to be her template, definition, and direction in life, and he wasn't, and I don't think Scott Summers ever demonstrated he wanted to control her. But in the regular continuity comics even when Scott pulled back to let Jean have her space, she always went to another strong man; Xavier or Wolverine instead. Compare and contrast this with Rachel's depiction over the years. Jean has been written as passive and obedient for most of her appearances during the last 50+ years of X-Men.

We've never seen Jean go off on her own adventure without Scott, or under Morrison, she did not have any identity other than that conferred upon her by Xavier, and then Wolverine. Not until she becomes the Phoenix, and dead in the "white hot room" does she become independent of the men who define her.

But yeah, to me Xavier has always been an lying, manipulative, controlling SOB with high ideals and good intentions.

Thanks for your insight. I appreciate it. I can definitely see some merit to your interpretation, Jean becoming a mouthpiece and a placeholder for Charles Xavier. I think that's a poor use of her talents as a character, defining her too much as Xavier's prized student. While she's always had a special place in the X-men, she was able to do things her way for the most part. At times, I think Morrison tried too hard to force characters into particular roles.

That's a part of what made the Cyclops/Jean relationship so healthy compared to other superhero romances. Cyclops didn't define her. He didn't control her. He didn't guide her narrative. He wasn't the reason the Phoenix Saga occurred. That occurred through Jean's own actions and agency. She's not Gwen Stacy in that another character's activities significantly define her role. Jean could, and often did, carry herself on her own terms and Cyclops trusted her enough to let her. That was shown in this comic. He didn't trust Rachel at first, but Jean did and he trusted her. Again, that's a part of a healthy relationship, having that kind of trust in one another.

I also don't really understand this concept that a character has to go off and be so independent in order to be strong. I don't agree with that. This comes up a lot in the Jean Grey Appreciation thread. There seems to be this sentiment that Jean needs to walk away from the X-men, romantic entanglements, and her friends in order to re-establish herself. I think that's the exact opposite of who Jean is. Jean is not a loner like Wolverine, Frank Castle, or Daredevil. She's an outgoing, compassionate, loving person. Her cutting ties with those she loves is just cold. Jean can thrive and be her own person while still being romantically involved with someone. X-men 92 #5 shows that it can work. So other X-men comics have no excuse.

[MarvelMaster616]

Given that Marvel seems to be hinting at Scott/Emma, why not just bring back the real Wolverine and Jean and let them be together for a time, as much as I hate Scott/Jean and love Logan/Jean I know that eventually Scott and Jean will be back together, if that doesn't happen for a few years more what's the harm in having Jean and Logan together, who knows it could temper the whole triangle a bit...I always saw it as that Marvel and the writers never really tried Jean and Scott with anybody else so it got to the point where being with each other was all that was known for the two...

I know you're an unapologetic Jean/Logan fan. I know I can never change your mind about that, nor do I want to. You're entitled to your opinions, tastes, and etc. In the context X-men 92 #5, however, there's really no room for ambiguity there. Jean left the team with Cyclops willingly. She makes clear in this issue she loves him, wants to be with him, and trusts him. It also highlights the strengths of their relationship. They really complement one another. They are equals who make each other stronger.

Jean and Wolverine may have a basic attraction and there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of characters do. Spider-Man and Carol Danvers had one at some point. However, I think it's hard to make the case that they complement each other. Jean is loving, outgoing, compassionate, and caring. Wolverine is ill-mannered, brooding, angry, a loner, and has poor impulse control. Those traits might make for a one-night stand at most, but not for a meaningful relationship. Also, the only reason they ever became a possibility is because Chris Clarmeont tried to force it for all the wrong reasons. He hated Cyclops after the Madelyne Pryor ordeal and that was his main justification for trying to put Jean with Wolverine. Not because they had meaningful chemistry that complemented one another. Because he soured on another relationship. That's akin to liking baseball just because you hate hockey. It makes no sense.

We've seen what happens with Jean's character when writers try to twist her persona to be compatible with Wolverine. We end up with stuff like X-men Forever, a poorly received series that got prematurely canceled. We get X-men movies where Jean Grey is reduced to nothing more than a prize for Wolverine, despite the fact that he never even knew her for more than a couple days. I find it very telling that X-men 92 #5 manages to do in one issue what Chris Claremont and several big budget X-men movies could not do. They made Jean Grey a strong character in a healthy relationship who doesn't need rescuing, protecting, or anything of the sort. It's a remarkable achievement and one I think shows the potential of what Jean and her relationship with Cyclops can be if done right.

[Fokken]

"Break his jaw, baby!" might be my favorite thing Jean Grey has ever said.

I've never been one to advocate for Jean's return, but if THIS became a recurrent catch phrase of hers, I will start hand writing a letter to Marvel right now.

It will be her "nigh invulnerable when ah'm..."! Her "...Sum Totality.."! Her "...is a JERK!"
I believe our collective worlds would be significantly improved with more "Break his jaw, baby!" in our lives.

Hell, I'll abandon SCEMMA for this.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

See I disagree that they'd have to twist Jean's persona for her and Logan to be together, it's because of her persona that he's in love with her, when she's not written as a wet blanket she's a fun character to read and she could more than let her hair down so to speak if they were together and he'd be more than able to handle pretty much anything that could come up...and I'd disagree and say that there's far more between them then just a basic attraction, if not pushed overboard I think that Logan and Jean could be very happy together, Marvel just tries to push Scott and Jean so bad, the movies notwithstanding...yeah the X-men 92 is different so I won't really argue with that, I just grew to hate Scott from the old Fox cartoon...didn't like him already but that just helped me to really not like him...but I'm not one to go to his appreciation thread and bash him every day...Jean and Logan can be and have been written poorly when they're together but wasn't much of that written by writers that didn't like or outright hated the two as a couple...that'd be like asking a Yankees fan to write a positive story about the Red Sox or vice versa...

[BlitheringToot]

I haven't read the issue, but I love how in one of the scans in the article, it shows Scott and Jean playing "X-Men Alert."

I remember seeing the ad for that when I was a kid and wanting it badly.

[MarvelMaster616]

I've never been one to advocate for Jean's return, but if THIS became a recurrent catch phrase of hers, I will start hand writing a letter to Marvel right now.

It will be her "nigh invulnerable when ah'm..."! Her "...Sum Totality.."! Her "...is a JERK!"
I believe our collective worlds would be significantly improved with more "Break his jaw, baby!" in our lives.

Hell, I'll abandon SCEMMA for this.

Agreed! I vote that Jean Grey make, "Break his jaw, baby!" her new catch phrase. It's probably the strongest, healthiest, most refined manifestation of her character and her relationship with Cyclops ever depicted. It involves no fainting, no rescuing, and no dying and coming back to life. It's just Jean supporting her lover and encouraging him, as a good lover does. If an adult version of Cyclops and Jean Grey return to the mainline comics (which is a big if at this point), then THIS should be the template for their relationship. It's the kind of romance that Marvel has basically ditched over the past decade or so. It's really sad, but X-men 92 #5 shows that there is a place for this kind of romance.

[kevinism]

Agreed! I vote that Jean Grey make, "Break his jaw, baby!" her new catch phrase. It's probably the strongest, healthiest, most refined manifestation of her character and her relationship with Cyclops ever depicted. It involves no fainting, no rescuing, and no dying and coming back to life. It's just Jean supporting her lover and encouraging him, as a good lover does. If an adult version of Cyclops and Jean Grey return to the mainline comics (which is a big if at this point), then THIS should be the template for their relationship. It's the kind of romance that Marvel has basically ditched over the past decade or so. It's really sad, but X-men 92 #5 shows that there is a place for this kind of romance.

Wow you really are a hopeless romantic

[MarvelMaster616]

Wow you really are a hopeless romantic

I am. And I won't apologize for it.

[AHRNIHAL]

http://www.popmatters.com/review/x-m...conic-romance/

Thanks for posting this because I'm the one who wrote it. Yes, I am Jack Fisher.

Of all the articles I've written for PopMatters, this one is definitely a personal favorite. Thanks again and I hope others check it out as well.

Very good article,thank you for this!

[Confuzzled]

Lol this article hasn't aged well in just two years. Reed/Sue and Peter/MJ are back. Carlie Cooper who? And did they call Scemma "shallow and/or mid level".

[ExodusCloak]

Lol this article hasn't aged well in just two years. Reed/Sue and Peter/MJ are back. Carlie Cooper who? And did they call Scemma "shallow and/or mid level".

The examples used in the article of a "healthy" relationship is laughable. Just full on 80s cheese

[Disciple of Redd]

People think Jean's best moment is cheering on her boyfriend in a fight in some meaningless junk that is aping the cartoon?

Wow. I really am alone here lol

[ButterRum]

Reed and Sue are considered "iconic" and healthy?





I know this scene is considered one of the most beloved Scott and Jean scenes, but it wasn't supposed to get the reaction it did, IMO.



In the entirety of the Dark Phoenix Saga, Professor X and Cyclops constantly fret over Jean's growing powers. They had trouble trusting a woman with such great power, and it ended up blowing up in their faces, literally.

In this scene Jean is asserting power over Cyclops and neutralizes his powers, and he's not in the moment with that kiss because he can't believe Jean can control all that power (unlike him)!!! While their trust may have evolved later in their relationship, this is an indictment on Cyclops and how he viewed her and her powers in their earlier years of their relationship.

[Disciple of Redd]

Reed and Sue are considered "iconic" and healthy?

I think "iconic and healthy" just means it was there at the launch of the series. Like Scott/Jean.

[AHRNIHAL]

Man,i can't wait for jean to join the cheerleading squad for the avengers when she finally move on with cap or thor.