should image comics actually enforce a deadline policy to make sure books actually come out?

[Bor]

I see what you're saying, and while Image isn't necessarily a traditional boss, it is still them distributing the content under their company name. There are tons of creators who would love to have a series at image who are not getting that opportunity. Image would be perfectly justified in canceling a series that barely comes out to give other creators a chance to make a book that comes out on a reasonable schedule. I also appreciate your loyalty to sticking with books but I'm an image fan too and don't feel the same, and there are obviously other people like me. At the end of the day you have to get your product out, and there is a fine line between taking some extra time and totally abusing your privileges with the fans and the publisher. Plus there is some humility that needs to come in to play on the part of image and its creators. They need to honor their commitments to the fans who are buying their books. Its such an arrogant idea that people should wait a super long time because a creator is making a "genius and true" work of art or whatever, which most times is complete nonsense. Deadlines should not be looked as bad as long they're reasonable, structure can actually help creativity a lot more than it can stifle it as long as its not overbearing.

I think you misundetstand a few of my points so I want to clarify. First of all this has nothing to do with beeing loyal to any book. I have no problem waiting 3-6 month for a book out of pure selfish reasons: I want the best book possible. I dont care if its not a monthly book not because of some sort of pure devotion, but because I have plenty of Things to read and entertain my in the mean time. Often that will result in me forgetting about a book and then getting it when a couple of issues is available and that is completely fine with me.

Part of that might be that I am not American and many of the comics I read growing up as a kid was not a monthly book but something that would come out 4-6 times a year or every couple of years if we are talking about new "albums" of Things like Tin-Tin. And you are right Image would be completely justified in cancelling books if they want to but it just does not make sense from a Financial point as discussed earlier. Image is not just thinking of what the individual issues will sell know, they are thinking what the series will sell in the long run as various collected editions because that is where they expect to make their Money in the long run. This is very much like DC/vertigo did with the last Sandman series. In the end the important thing for them was not to have that series come out and sell on a monthly basis, but having a new collected edition they can sell in TP, hardcover etc. for years to come. Why cancell a series and have the creator take it some place else and then see them make a lot of Money in a few years when that series becomes the new Saga/walking dead? Yes those series are rare but they do happen and can make a huge difference for a Company like Image.

And I must say I still think this Whole problem is not really that big a deal, espescially since many have begone to adopt the Saga model of taking breaks between acts.
And I still think that some posters in this thread, not directed at you Orpheus, could benifit from reading Gaimans view on entitlement.

[capuga]

And I'm sorry, I don't believe financial problems with the book are any excuse for this type of stuff. If you are not positive that you can make bank for the long haul, you should do something shorter. Honestly, I don't understand why so many of these guys want to tell some super long story. A bunch of the greatest comic stories fit into a single volume, and I think shorter, high quality stuff is what both image and its creators should strive for.

So these creators should work for free because some fans feel entitled to having the story finished? In the creator owned model, they don't get paid if the book doesn't sell. The vast majority of Image creators don't get an advance on sales from what I've read. And there are still pieces of the process (colorist, inker, letterer, etc) that have to be paid a page rate out of pocket. And even if the book is successful, they only get paid quarterly and won't see a check for months after the book is released (which is months after they started working on it). So many of them have actually been working at a financial deficit for months. Economic realities are a part of life and bills have to be paid. If a book doesn't do well and can't pay the rent, how can the fans expect a creator to continue to to be hurting financially just so they can get some closure in the story?

And they won't know how the book will do until it comes out and gets some pre-orders. Their creativity shouldn't be shackled to a mini-series model (which I've read actually don't sell as well - fans are more likely to say "I'll read the 5 issues in trade when it comes out" and then forget about it when there is actually a trade available) if they want to tell a long form story. But they won't know if the series will be financially viable until it actually starts coming out.

To me, you have received everything you've paid for. You pay 3 or 4 dollars for an issue of a comic. You received and read that comic. You didn't pay 3/4 dollars for the promise of every future issue in the series. You received the item you paid for.

If a series ends prematurely without story closure it is unfortunate. I've certainly had it happen to stories I was enjoying. But that is just the way things go sometimes. I don't believe Image should change their business model because of it.

[JFP]

But that has also been commented on. Often these series are not billed as "monthly" but ongoings. Big difference. The medium has a long history of bi-monthly, 4 times a year etc in addition to the monthly comic. OP and other poster here miss that point and the fact that often the creators announce in advance that there is going to be a break between story acts. If anything Image themselves could be better at stating it because as already discussed many readers dont read creators blogs/ social media,
See it like this: A tv show has planned breaks during Winter or summer but it is still the same series. A series does not change name just because it had a 3 month break for summer.
In addition to that the reason it often Works for Hellboy is because many, not all but many, of those stories can be read as a stand alone series but the same do not apply to many other series. Also you seem to think that these breaks hurt the title and make people less inclined to pick up the series again whereas the sales numbers just dont support that to any large degree. Sure sales might go a little down for the individual issues but Again that is often not the main focus in the long run so its not really that important. So no I dont think a creator should do a mini-series or nothing, I dont accept that the problem is as big as some here tries to say it is. Sure there are examples where a title is pushed so much back it becomes a joke, Afterlife with Archie and Sabrina I am looking at you, but those are not the majority and are certaintly not a Image problem alone.

I think one issue here is some people see a robust industry, where many don't see it.

150,000 books sold is a bestseller.
Decline of comic bookstores.
Decline of readers.
The low regard for comic books as a whole from the general public, even those in the industry.
When a novel becomes a movie or TV show, the increase in sales can be substantial. Same thing goes for a music artist in a major movie; the increase in sales for that artist can be substantial. But when a comic book becomes a movie or TV show, the increase in sales for the comic is pitiful compared to the number of people who watched the movie.

So when people say, "The sales aren't that bad." I'm perplexed because this industry is in the poorest shape it has ever been. There are twice as many video rental stores as comic bookstores. More and more, the U.S. comic industry is become like the European comic industry: beautifully-drawn art, with high prices, few retailers, long gaps between issues, the most popular comics feature characters that are decades old, and a general acceptance from a large number of the comic-reading public that this is a good thing. This is not a good thing. Many people, including Europeans, don't read European comics for the reasons listed above.

American and Japanese comic industry rose based on the comics being cheap, easy to find, disposable, no characters dominating, and simple stories told with simple art. I wish the American comic book industry would go back to the basics. I like that. I don't want to see it turn into a replica of the European comic book industry where I have to wait 2-3 years for an expensive 50-page hardcover album. I'd quit reading American comics if that were the case.

In my view, when Image made a big splash decades ago, it made it seem like they would revolutionize/innovate the American comic book industry that not only wowed current readers, but also bring legions of new readers. Clearly, that is not the case today.

So these creators should work for free because some fans feel entitled to having the story finished? In the creator owned model, they don't get paid if the book doesn't sell. The vast majority of Image creators don't get an advance on sales from what I've read. And there are still pieces of the process (colorist, inker, letterer, etc) that have to be paid a page rate out of pocket. And even if the book is successful, they only get paid quarterly and won't see a check for months after the book is released (which is months after they started working on it). So many of them have actually been working at a financial deficit for months. Economic realities are a part of life and bills have to be paid. If a book doesn't do well and can't pay the rent, how can the fans expect a creator to continue to to be hurting financially just so they can get some closure in the story?

And they won't know how the book will do until it comes out and gets some pre-orders. Their creativity shouldn't be shackled to a mini-series model (which I've read actually don't sell as well - fans are more likely to say "I'll read the 5 issues in trade when it comes out" and then forget about it when there is actually a trade available) if they want to tell a long form story. But they won't know if the series will be financially viable until it actually starts coming out.

To me, you have received everything you've paid for. You pay 3 or 4 dollars for an issue of a comic. You received and read that comic. You didn't pay 3/4 dollars for the promise of every future issue in the series. You received the item you paid for.

If a series ends prematurely without story closure it is unfortunate. I've certainly had it happen to stories I was enjoying. But that is just the way things go sometimes. I don't believe Image should change their business model because of it.

I think fans expect the creator to finish the story because we paid money for a story we thought would be completed. I understand he's hurting financially. But what about the finances of his fans? They through away money for a story that is incomplete. What about the local comic store owner? Isn't he hurting financially on a story that is incomplete? If a comic creator abruptly cancels a series, how enthusiastic does he think fans and retailers are going to be about his next series? How many times on this board alone have we seen someone say they won't touch a book by such and such creator because the guy never finished his previous series?

I think a big problem here is a lot of fans standing up for their creator and saying, "You don't have the right to complain. His problems are more important." It doesn't matter if these people paid 4 dollars or 40 cents. They paid. They paid for something they didn't get: a completed story. They are paying per issue. But they are paying on the premise that they will see a completed story.

Unfortunately, there are far more incomplete comic book stories then there are completed ones. Years back, I looked in my garage and saw boxes with hundreds of titles. Less than 1% of those were from titles that had completed the story. I remember thinking, "God, what a waste. A whole bunch of titles that are incomplete. I can't get any enjoyment from rereading them. I can't get any money from them. Just thousands of dollars sunk down the drain." And I just threw all the incomplete stories into the recycling bin.

A film-lover knows when he pays to watch a film, he'll see the story completed.
A music-lover knows when he pays to listen to a CD, he'll hear all the songs.
A theater-lover knows when he pays to watch a stageplay, he'll see the story completed.
A TV-viewer knows when he pays to watch a TV show, he knows there's a good chance the series will be completed.
A comic-book fan knows when he pays for issue 1 of a knew comic book series, he knows it's most likely the series won't be completed.

Out of all the fans of various storytelling mediums, we are the ones who seem to put up with the most bullshit. And when he rightly voice a complaint, we are told we are wrong for complaining. Small wonder that comics are scorned and derided by the general public.

[Joker]

If a series ends prematurely without story closure it is unfortunate. I've certainly had it happen to stories I was enjoying. But that is just the way things go sometimes. I don't believe Image should change their business model because of it.

It's also ridiculous that some are acting like Image are the only publisher where this happens. It happens constantly at every other publisher.

Just today we found out that Prez at DC will not get it's 2nd 6 issue arc. Lateness, unfinished series, prematurely cancelled series, those things all happen at Marvel and DC just as much as Image. I'd wager the % is pretty similar, The Big Two just publish far more books so it feels like more success stories.

The Big Two also have the same average sales drop off rates per issue as Image, or any other indie publisher, but start at a higher number, so their threshold for continuing the book is also higher which allows it to run longer. Of course, they also have a higher sales requirement since their production costs are higher than Image. So, I'd have to look in to it, but it might run at a similar % as well. Though, at Image, you can actually pay out of pocket to finish your book if it isn't profiting.

And, all that to say, this is why I asserted earlier that some people simply aren't aware of how the industry actually operates and are instead acting out of entitlement than understanding the realities of life and business.

[Joker]

A TV-viewer knows when he pays to watch a TV show, he knows there's a good chance the series will be completed.

This is laughably incorrect.

[ArthurCurry]

But what about the finances of his fans? They through away money for a story that is incomplete. What about the local comic store owner? Isn't he hurting financially on a story that is incomplete?

A lot of people like to accuse fans of being entitled. But creators also exhibit this sense of entitlement about expecting fans to wait around forever for products when there is a plethora of other media to jump to if creators can't maintain deadlines.

I think Jeff Lemire's blogpost from yesterday about creator time management is apropos (his big two work is a little weak, but I've always enjoyed is Indie stuff)

http://jefflemire.blogspot.com/2016/....html?spref=tw

[Orpheus37]

It's also ridiculous that some are acting like Image are the only publisher where this happens. It happens constantly at every other publisher.

Just today we found out that Prez at DC will not get it's 2nd 6 issue arc. Lateness, unfinished series, prematurely cancelled series, those things all happen at Marvel and DC just as much as Image. I'd wager the % is pretty similar, The Big Two just publish far more books so it feels like more success stories.

The Big Two also have the same average sales drop off rates per issue as Image, or any other indie publisher, but start at a higher number, so their threshold for continuing the book is also higher which allows it to run longer. Of course, they also have a higher sales requirement since their production costs are higher than Image. So, I'd have to look in to it, but it might run at a similar % as well. Though, at Image, you can actually pay out of pocket to finish your book if it isn't profiting.

And, all that to say, this is why I asserted earlier that some people simply aren't aware of how the industry actually operates and are instead acting out of entitlement than understanding the realities of life and business.

Geez enough of the entitlement stuff already. Its not entitlement to expect something you payed money for to finish. Some of images issues are specific to them. Some of this stuff may happen at the big 2 like all star batman and robin, but you can count on the vast majority of the series to come out in a reasonably timely manner, and even if they don't get to do everything they want to do, they'll still finish the arc they're on. People understand how life is and how the industry works just fine. The problem is at the end of the day that's not the consumer's problem. If you invest in a series you deserve a certain amount of respect from the creators to get the product out, and even if they can't get to sixty issues, to be able to give a respectable closing to the series. If its something like health or family issues then I'm more than fine to have the creators only work on their stuff when things get better, or even walk away from the project altogether. What I totally disagree with is a creator who starts something super ambitious, knowing perfectly well financial realities may not allow he/she to continue at a respectable pace, and in turn still selling the fans like they are going to get issues at a nice, steady pace, and will get to read the whole story. The reason image is being called out for their problems is because they have talked a lot of smack about how they are here to save the industry and how the big 2 and companies who do licensed properties are holding the industry back. Not saying they're necessarily wrong but its only fair that they have to answer for their flaws seeing as they have no issue calling out everyone else. There's a reason vertigo is having a resurgence, and thats because creators are seeing image as more of comic company like everyone else who has strengths and weaknesses, and not as some shining light on the hill where you can make tons of money doing whatever you want with no oversight.

[Bor]

I think fans expect the creator to finish the story because we paid money for a story we thought would be completed. I understand he's hurting financially. But what about the finances of his fans? They through away money for a story that is incomplete. What about the local comic store owner? Isn't he hurting financially on a story that is incomplete? If a comic creator abruptly cancels a series, how enthusiastic does he think fans and retailers are going to be about his next series? How many times on this board alone have we seen someone say they won't touch a book by such and such creator because the guy never finished his previous series?

I think a big problem here is a lot of fans standing up for their creator and saying, "You don't have the right to complain. His problems are more important." It doesn't matter if these people paid 4 dollars or 40 cents. They paid. They paid for something they didn't get: a completed story. They are paying per issue. But they are paying on the premise that they will see a completed story.

Unfortunately, there are far more incomplete comic book stories then there are completed ones. Years back, I looked in my garage and saw boxes with hundreds of titles. Less than 1% of those were from titles that had completed the story. I remember thinking, "God, what a waste. A whole bunch of titles that are incomplete. I can't get any enjoyment from rereading them. I can't get any money from them. Just thousands of dollars sunk down the drain." And I just threw all the incomplete stories into the recycling bin.

A film-lover knows when he pays to watch a film, he'll see the story completed.
A music-lover knows when he pays to listen to a CD, he'll hear all the songs.
A theater-lover knows when he pays to watch a stageplay, he'll see the story completed.
A TV-viewer knows when he pays to watch a TV show, he knows there's a good chance the series will be completed.
A comic-book fan knows when he pays for issue 1 of a knew comic book series, he knows it's most likely the series won't be completed.

Out of all the fans of various storytelling mediums, we are the ones who seem to put up with the most bullshit. And when he rightly voice a complaint, we are told we are wrong for complaining. Small wonder that comics are scorned and derided by the general public.

What about the finances of his fans? Are you serious.... So you think that because you bought one comic that entitles you to control his Work and future? Wow....
And I am just going to call bull .... on the 1% claim. If you make a claim like that back it up with actual evidence or dont bring it up. I can tell you for sure that is not my experience and I highly doubt that is the case for others then you, or you are really buying the wrong comics compared to the rest of us.
As for your examples of other media: I will bet that for each Image comic unfinished I can provide atleast as many tv series where the same applies.

No one is saying you cant complain, but when you expect creators Work without pay you are reaching a fan level that is unhealty.
And the people who scorn people who read comics are thinking of the "comic book guy" who expects his comics because he "needs" them which your side is a great representative of here.

[capuga]

I think fans expect the creator to finish the story because we paid money for a story we thought would be completed. I understand he's hurting financially. But what about the finances of his fans? They through away money for a story that is incomplete. What about the local comic store owner? Isn't he hurting financially on a story that is incomplete? If a comic creator abruptly cancels a series, how enthusiastic does he think fans and retailers are going to be about his next series? How many times on this board alone have we seen someone say they won't touch a book by such and such creator because the guy never finished his previous series?

I think a big problem here is a lot of fans standing up for their creator and saying, "You don't have the right to complain. His problems are more important." It doesn't matter if these people paid 4 dollars or 40 cents. They paid. They paid for something they didn't get: a completed story. They are paying per issue. But they are paying on the premise that they will see a completed story.

Unfortunately, there are far more incomplete comic book stories then there are completed ones. Years back, I looked in my garage and saw boxes with hundreds of titles. Less than 1% of those were from titles that had completed the story. I remember thinking, "God, what a waste. A whole bunch of titles that are incomplete. I can't get any enjoyment from rereading them. I can't get any money from them. Just thousands of dollars sunk down the drain." And I just threw all the incomplete stories into the recycling bin.

A film-lover knows when he pays to watch a film, he'll see the story completed.
A music-lover knows when he pays to listen to a CD, he'll hear all the songs.
A theater-lover knows when he pays to watch a stageplay, he'll see the story completed.
A TV-viewer knows when he pays to watch a TV show, he knows there's a good chance the series will be completed.
A comic-book fan knows when he pays for issue 1 of a knew comic book series, he knows it's most likely the series won't be completed.

Out of all the fans of various storytelling mediums, we are the ones who seem to put up with the most bullshit. And when he rightly voice a complaint, we are told we are wrong for complaining. Small wonder that comics are scorned and derided by the general public.

Again, not really. You did not pay for the story to be completed. You didn't front money for the entire story arc to be finished. You paid money for one single issue. You received the issue you paid for. The transaction is complete. You are not entitled to future issues because you paid for the issue that you received. Of course it would be nice if you got the entire story you were hoping for. But you didn't pay for that and sometimes stuff happens.

And this whole thing about it hurting the comic book stores is overblown as well. Comic book stores order the amount of issues they believe they can sell based on a number of criteria such as number of pre-orders (easily the most important factor, so if you are interested in a series make sure you pre-order and put it on your pull list), the tastes of their particular customers, creator reputations, standard issue to issue attrition, etc.

If they are doing their ordering correctly, they'll have ordered in the ballpark of the amount they can sell through. They are not out any money on future issues because they haven't paid for them yet. So if a series disappears, why would it cost them anything? They've already hopefully already sold and made a profit on the issues that did come out.

Creator reputation does certainly come into play. If a creator gets a reputation of not delivering and angering fans into not wanting to take a chance on their new series, the comic store should take this into account when they do their ordering. They should order something that will be profitable and sell. So a well managed store has already taken all of this into consideration when purchasing their inventory. Yes, this means that flaky creators will/should see dips in their sales. That is their punishment for not fulfilling their promises.

[Bor]

Geez enough of the entitlement stuff already. Its not entitlement to expect something you payed money for to finish. Some of images issues are specific to them. Some of this stuff may happen at the big 2 like all star batman and robin, but you can count on the vast majority of the series to come out in a reasonably timely manner, and even if they don't get to do everything they want to do, they'll still finish the arc they're on. People understand how life is and how the industry works just fine. The problem is at the end of the day that's not the consumer's problem. If you invest in a series you deserve a certain amount of respect from the creators to get the product out, and even if they can't get to sixty issues, to be able to give a respectable closing to the series. If its something like health or family issues then I'm more than fine to have the creators only work on their stuff when things get better, or even walk away from the project altogether. What I totally disagree with is a creator who starts something super ambitious, knowing perfectly well financial realities may not allow he/she to continue at a respectable pace, and in turn still selling the fans like they are going to get issues at a nice, steady pace, and will get to read the whole story. The reason image is being called out for their problems is because they have talked a lot of smack about how they are here to save the industry and how the big 2 and companies who do licensed properties are holding the industry back. Not saying they're necessarily wrong but its only fair that they have to answer for their flaws seeing as they have no issue calling out everyone else. There's a reason vertigo is having a resurgence, and thats because creators are seeing image as more of comic company like everyone else who has strengths and weaknesses, and not as some shining light on the hill where you can make tons of money doing whatever you want with no oversight.

It is entitlement yes when you expect to get it on your terms and for the creators to go without pay.

And I am sorry but no you dont get to expect ANYTHING from that creators except the individual comics you just bought. When I buy milk from my local supermarket it is with the expectation of getting that one milk and nothing more. If they stop selling it I will buy it somewhere else and they Loose my sale, that is how it works.

So yes I will keep on calling it entitlement when people provide no evidence and claim Things like "less then 1 % percent of comics finish their storylines", "Almost all of the time when a series is delayed it is because of creators being bored" or "This is how it is my comicshoop and everywhere else" while at the same time ignoring actual numbers and facts.
These people ignore the MANY reasons for a comic not being monthly that has been stated several times now and claim their own needs outweigh that.


Putting your own desire for a comic above real life facts and people´s life is not something I agree with nor have a problem calling for fan entitlement.

Look I get it, we all want to get the comics we enjoy at a steady pace, but that desire should not be put above actual real life conditions.

[Bor]

Again, not really. You did not pay for the story to be completed. You didn't front money for the entire story arc to be finished. You paid money for one single issue. You received the issue you paid for. The transaction is complete. You are not entitled to future issues because you paid for the issue that you received. Of course it would be nice if you got the entire story you were hoping for. But you didn't pay for that and sometimes stuff happens.

And this whole thing about it hurting the comic book stores is overblown as well. Comic book stores order the amount of issues they believe they can sell based on a number of criteria such as number of pre-orders (easily the most important factor, so if you are interested in a series make sure you pre-order and put it on your pull list), the tastes of their particular customers, creator reputations, standard issue to issue attrition, etc.

If they are doing their ordering correctly, they'll have ordered in the ballpark of the amount they can sell through. They are not out any money on future issues because they haven't paid for them yet. So if a series disappears, why would it cost them anything? They've already hopefully already sold and made a profit on the issues that did come out.

Creator reputation does certainly come into play. If a creator gets a reputation of not delivering and angering fans into not wanting to take a chance on their new series, the comic store should take this into account when they do their ordering. They should order something that will be profitable and sell. So a well managed store has already taken all of this into consideration when purchasing their inventory. Yes, this means that flaky creators will/should see dips in their sales. That is their punishment for not fulfilling their promises.

Well said.

[JFP]

A lot of people like to accuse fans of being entitled. But creators also exhibit this sense of entitlement about expecting fans to wait around forever for products when there is a plethora of other media to jump to if creators can't maintain deadlines.

I think Jeff Lemire's blogpost from yesterday about creator time management is apropos (his big two work is a little weak, but I've always enjoyed is Indie stuff)

http://jefflemire.blogspot.com/2016/....html?spref=tw

Thanks for that blog link. It enlightens things and I can't wait to read more of his previous blog posts.

Geez enough of the entitlement stuff already. Its not entitlement to expect something you payed money for to finish. Some of images issues are specific to them. Some of this stuff may happen at the big 2 like all star batman and robin, but you can count on the vast majority of the series to come out in a reasonably timely manner, and even if they don't get to do everything they want to do, they'll still finish the arc they're on. People understand how life is and how the industry works just fine. The problem is at the end of the day that's not the consumer's problem. If you invest in a series you deserve a certain amount of respect from the creators to get the product out, and even if they can't get to sixty issues, to be able to give a respectable closing to the series. If its something like health or family issues then I'm more than fine to have the creators only work on their stuff when things get better, or even walk away from the project altogether. What I totally disagree with is a creator who starts something super ambitious, knowing perfectly well financial realities may not allow he/she to continue at a respectable pace, and in turn still selling the fans like they are going to get issues at a nice, steady pace, and will get to read the whole story. The reason image is being called out for their problems is because they have talked a lot of smack about how they are here to save the industry and how the big 2 and companies who do licensed properties are holding the industry back. Not saying they're necessarily wrong but its only fair that they have to answer for their flaws seeing as they have no issue calling out everyone else. There's a reason vertigo is having a resurgence, and thats because creators are seeing image as more of comic company like everyone else who has strengths and weaknesses, and not as some shining light on the hill where you can make tons of money doing whatever you want with no oversight.

It's ridiculous how wanting a series to be completed gets criticism of "entitlement" or "demanding too much from the creator". The reader is a paying customer. Why get mad at a man who wants to pay to read your story? Paying customers keep the industry alive.

A creator says, "I'm losing money on this, so I'm gonna stop the comic." But there's still a bright side to putting out an unfinished comic: the creator can get more work. He can add his unfinished comic to his resume and portfolio to get more work. What can a reader do with an unfinished comic? Sell it? Reread it? What can a retailer do with an unfinished comic? Sell it? Reread it?

So even if a creator puts out a comic that doesn't make him money, he can still use that to his advantage by adding it to his portfolio and resume. Thus, the least he can do is wrap up the story for the benefit of fans and retailers. By leaving a comic unfinished, he leaves these people reluctant toward his future work.

But fans have to put up with that creator calling us entitled and demanding too much because he has doesn't have enough time and money to finish the story. But we see these guys have enough time and money to attend all expenses paid trips to comic cons where they charge us hundreds of dollars for commissioned art of characters from their unfinished comic book.

[Orpheus37]

It is entitlement yes when you expect to get it on your terms and for the creators to go without pay.

And I am sorry but no you dont get to expect ANYTHING from that creators except the individual comics you just bought. When I buy milk from my local supermarket it is with the expectation of getting that one milk and nothing more. If they stop selling it I will buy it somewhere else and they Loose my sale, that is how it works.

So yes I will keep on calling it entitlement when people provide no evidence and claim Things like "less then 1 % percent of comics finish their storylines", "Almost all of the time when a series is delayed it is because of creators being bored" or "This is how it is my comicshoop and everywhere else" while at the same time ignoring actual numbers and facts.
These people ignore the MANY reasons for a comic not being monthly that has been stated several times now and claim their own needs outweigh that.


Putting your own desire for a comic above real life facts and people´s life is not something I agree with nor have a problem calling for fan entitlement.

Look I get it, we all want to get the comics we enjoy at a steady pace, but that desire should not be put above actual real life conditions.

If the creators get fans to invest in something they can't deliver on, then thats just screwing the fans out of hard earned money. Your milk argument doesn't fit. Yeah, I get it, I'm only paying for that comic, but I'm supporting the creator on the condition that I'll get a full story on a reasonably timely manner. The creators know the the lofty realities of being able to deliver on these huge stories but sell it to the fans anyway, and won't finish the story, its total robbery.

[ArthurCurry]

Creator reputation does certainly come into play. If a creator gets a reputation of not delivering and angering fans into not wanting to take a chance on their new series, the comic store should take this into account when they do their ordering. They should order something that will be profitable and sell. So a well managed store has already taken all of this into consideration when purchasing their inventory. Yes, this means that flaky creators will/should see dips in their sales. That is their punishment for not fulfilling their promises.

I think this thread is starting to go in circles a bit. If certain creators don't deliver and their reputation takes a bit of a hit...and those series happen to be at Image (or w/e publisher), then the publisher's reputation might take a bit of a hit.

I think Image imposing deadlines isn't the answer, but it seems any comment about creators not delivering is interpreted as supporting the initial topic's question.

These are issues the industry is facing now that the non-big two publishers, specifically Image since that is the premiere destination for non big 2, had an influx of talent. What's the best way for creators to do their thing and fans not to get jaded with delays? I don't think it's been worked out just yet, which is why you're seeing the push-pull between "let creators take however long they need" and "I'd like a comic coming out at a steady rate." The Saga team's plan of story arc, 3 month break, story arc, etc might be it. But I think for the most part complaints about delays weren't in regards to that method, it was series which start and randomly stop and nothing is heard from again, or excessive delays within story arcs.

[Bor]

If the creators get fans to invest in something they can't deliver on, then thats just screwing the fans out of hard earned money. Your milk argument doesn't fit. Yeah, I get it, I'm only paying for that comic, but I'm supporting the creator on the condition that I'll get a full story on a reasonably timely manner. The creators know the the lofty realities of being able to deliver on these huge stories but sell it to the fans anyway, and won't finish the story, its total robbery.

No the milk argument fits just fine. If you choose to ignore it that is your choice. Sure if the creators goes in knowing he/she will never finish it that sucks and that is a bad creator. But then that creator gets a reputation and people will not bug more from him/her. That is how it works. If you support a creator under the belief that you are guanted a finished story then that is on you. That is not how this transaction works. Besides you still ignoring the many arguments people have given for why a series can be delayed and apparently choosen to ignore them.