should image comics actually enforce a deadline policy to make sure books actually come out?

[Bor]

Bad business and Poor character is what that is.

Bad buisness? Well that depends on each series as has already been discussed. In many cases its not really no.

Poor character? Maybe depending on your viewpoint. I think it shows bad character to put your own need for a funny book above others well being.

I dont care if its not monthly I still highly enjoy each issue of Ragnarok by Walt simonson, IDW but still kind of the same deal here, and if it is ever finished thats even better but even if its not I will still have had hours of enjoyment reading the story, looking at the art and wondering where is he going with it next.

[JFP]

Yes. And thats exactly what store owners do. They order what they can sell.

And retailers dont get paid on the back end. They get paid up front when a customer buys their stock.

Yes, many times retailers order things that don't sell. What doesn't sell are incomplete comics. He's not gonna make money having unfinished comics stocked in his store.
----------------
I said, "So if Kirkmanjust cancelled Invincible right now, you'd be fine with that? You'd be fine with not knowing how the series end? You'd say, "Well, I am fine that I spent hundreds of dollars without knowing how the story of Markus Grayson ends."? Perhaps you would. But why would you be think it's wrong for other fans to be mad that they spent hundreds of dollars not to know how the story ends?"

Bor said, "I would be irratated for sure."

There you go. You understand us. You're irritated that even though you only paid for the issues he published, you were paying with the belief that you'd be able to pay a completed story. You know if he wasn't gonna complete the story, you would have kept your money.

Bor said, "No what keeps this industry alive is fans and not entitled fans. Entitled is putting other peoples Lifes and well beings above your own because you need to have your funny book."

No, what keeps this industry alive is paying customers. That includes entitled fans. In an industry with where 150,000 books sold is a bestseller, it's not wise to scorn fans who want to spend money on their books as "entitled." It's entitlement to wonder why he doesn't have time and money to complete his comic but he has time and money to attend an all-expenses paid comic con where he can charge hundreds of dollars for commissioned art featuring characters from the comic he didn't have time and money to finish?

I said, "Are you aware that if fans had known the comic wouldn't be completed, no one would have bought it in the first place?"
Bor, said, "Are you aware that is certaintly not true nor was it ever the argument?"
It is true and it is an argument. It is the truth to say if I knew the comic book that creator is soliciting would not be completed, I wouldn't buy it. And I'm sure that is the same with other fans. It's an argument because fans do not pay for comics we believe won't be completed. We pay for comics we believe will be completed.

By the fact that if the industry is doing well and is in fact on the rise, more product continues to be produced and readers get to continue enjoying their hobby.

The US comic book industry has the following:
--declining comic bookstores.
--Big 2 still dominate.
--the public doesn't respect comic books anymore than they have in the past.
--the main demographic is older males.
--the average creator can make more for the Big 2 than his own work.
--Japan sells more comics domestically than the US does globally.
--150,000 books sold is considered a bestseller.

Despite all this, you see an industry doing well and on the rise?

[Joker]

--the average creator can make more for the Big 2 than his own work.

Once again, for everyone else, this isn't really the case.

[JFP]

Bad buisness? Well that depends on each series as has already been discussed. In many cases its not really no.

Poor character? Maybe depending on your viewpoint. I think it shows bad character to put your own need for a funny book above others well being.

I dont care if its not monthly I still highly enjoy each issue of Ragnarok by Walt simonson, IDW but still kind of the same deal here, and if it is ever finished thats even better but even if its not I will still have had hours of enjoyment reading the story, looking at the art and wondering where is he going with it next.

So if Walt Simonson had said on announcing the first issue of Ragnarok, "I don't plan on finishing this series. I will abruptly cancelled and leave this series unfinished at some point." you would have still started buying the comic?

Or what if all comic creators said that, would you buy comics at all knowing that they will be abruptly cancelled and unfinished?

What does something like that say about the character of the creator? Is this good business sense? Is it good for publishers? Good business for retailers?

[Bor]

[QUOTE=JFP;2228328]----------------
I said, "So if Kirkmanjust cancelled Invincible right now, you'd be fine with that? You'd be fine with not knowing how the series end? You'd say, "Well, I am fine that I spent hundreds of dollars without knowing how the story of Markus Grayson ends."? Perhaps you would. But why would you be think it's wrong for other fans to be mad that they spent hundreds of dollars not to know how the story ends?"

Bor said, "I would be irratated for sure."

There you go. You understand us. You're irritated that even though you only paid for the issues he published, you were paying with the belief that you'd be able to pay a completed story. You know if he wasn't gonna complete the story, you would have kept your money.
No and I have already addressed this. I buy it with the hope but not the Insurance that it is going to finish. And I never said I did not get your point, just that I disagreed with it

Bor said, "No what keeps this industry alive is fans and not entitled fans. Entitled is putting other peoples Lifes and well beings above your own because you need to have your funny book."

No, what keeps this industry alive is paying customers. That includes entitled fans. In an industry with where 150,000 books sold is a bestseller, it's not wise to scorn fans who want to spend money on their books as "entitled." It's entitlement to wonder why he doesn't have time and money to complete his comic but he has time and money to attend an all-expenses paid comic con where he can charge hundreds of dollars for co
mmissioned art featuring characters from the comic he didn't have time and money to finish?


Yes paying customers not entitled ones.

I said, "Are you aware that if fans had known the comic wouldn't be completed, no one would have bought it in the first place?"
Bor, said, "Are you aware that is certaintly not true nor was it ever the argument?"
It is true and it is an argument. It is the truth to say if I knew the comic book that creator is soliciting would not be completed, I wouldn't buy it. And I'm sure that is the same with other fans. It's an argument because fans do not pay for comics we believe won't be completed. We pay for comics we believe will be completed.

Its true some would not and some would have. As far as it not being an argument I was refering to it not being something I had ever argued

QUOTE]

If you are paying for something you belive will be completed instead of hoping for, well that is on you.

[Bor]

So if Walt Simonson had said on announcing the first issue of Ragnarok, "I don't plan on finishing this series. I will abruptly cancelled and leave this series unfinished at some point." you would have still started buying the comic?

Or what if all comic creators said that, would you buy comics at all knowing that they will be abruptly cancelled and unfinished?

What does something like that say about the character of the creator? Is this good business sense? Is it good for publishers? Good business for retailers?

With him yes because I enjoy his Work that much. But for others no? But what the heck does that have to do with anything? I said I would buy a series HOPING it would finish not seeing it as a betrayal if its not.

How can I hope for it to be finished if the creator comes out saying from the beginning its not going to happen? That makes no sense.

[Dark-Flux]

Yes, many times retailers order things that don't sell. What doesn't sell are incomplete comics. He's not gonna make money having unfinished comics stocked in his store.
----------------
I said, "So if Kirkmanjust cancelled Invincible right now, you'd be fine with that? You'd be fine with not knowing how the series end? You'd say, "Well, I am fine that I spent hundreds of dollars without knowing how the story of Markus Grayson ends."? Perhaps you would. But why would you be think it's wrong for other fans to be mad that they spent hundreds of dollars not to know how the story ends?"

Bor said, "I would be irratated for sure."

There you go. You understand us. You're irritated that even though you only paid for the issues he published, you were paying with the belief that you'd be able to pay a completed story. You know if he wasn't gonna complete the story, you would have kept your money.

Bor said, "No what keeps this industry alive is fans and not entitled fans. Entitled is putting other peoples Lifes and well beings above your own because you need to have your funny book."

No, what keeps this industry alive is paying customers. That includes entitled fans. In an industry with where 150,000 books sold is a bestseller, it's not wise to scorn fans who want to spend money on their books as "entitled." It's entitlement to wonder why he doesn't have time and money to complete his comic but he has time and money to attend an all-expenses paid comic con where he can charge hundreds of dollars for commissioned art featuring characters from the comic he didn't have time and money to finish?

I said, "Are you aware that if fans had known the comic wouldn't be completed, no one would have bought it in the first place?"
Bor, said, "Are you aware that is certaintly not true nor was it ever the argument?"
It is true and it is an argument. It is the truth to say if I knew the comic book that creator is soliciting would not be completed, I wouldn't buy it. And I'm sure that is the same with other fans. It's an argument because fans do not pay for comics we believe won't be completed. We pay for comics we believe will be completed.






The US comic book industry has the following:
--declining comic bookstores.
--Big 2 still dominate.
--the public doesn't respect comic books anymore than they have in the past.
--the main demographic is older males.
--the average creator can make more for the Big 2 than his own work.
--Japan sells more comics domestically than the US does globally.
--150,000 books sold is considered a bestseller.

Despite all this, you see an industry doing well and on the rise?

The industry continues to generate more revenue year after year. So yes, it is on the rise.

[capuga]

Okay guys, I'm going to lock this thread up. Interesting points made on both sides but we've reached the point where the argument is just going in circles and becoming unproductive and a touch heated.