Detective Comics #938 preview/discussion (spoilers!)

[Atlanta96]

Hmmmm, where have I read this story before?

If they wanted to kill Tim off I honestly felt Teen Titans would have been the place. That could have been what caused the team to split, thus leading to Damian opportunity to take over. Why give him the rebirth treatment only to send him off so soon?

Cause they want him to die in a series that doesn't suck. Killing off a popular character in a series everyone hates is an insult. Giving Tim some panel time in 'Tec and a likable persona before he dies temporarily will make his death seem more heroic and is less upsetting to his fans.

[Tony]

I don't think he'll die. If you think about it not only would they be killing Tim, but at the same time adding Harper. I don't think it takes Einstein to figure out that would be a problem.

[Caivu]

I don't think he'll die. If you think about it not only would they be killing Tim, but at the same time adding Harper. I don't think it takes Einstein to figure out that would be a problem.

Problems exist to be fixed.

[Tony]

Yes well if Rebirth is about giving the fans the characters they love back why would they kill a fan favorite that was screwed over by new 52 and replace him with a new character that's not nearly as popular. I just don't see it happening.

[Caivu]

Yes well if Rebirth is about giving the fans the characters they love back why would they kill a fan favorite that was screwed over by new 52 and replace him with a new character that's not nearly as popular. I just don't see it happening.

Because according to the theory, Tim's going to be resurrected fairly soon. He's not just going to die and that's it. His death will actually play a role in the larger context of Rebirth, and thus be incredibly important. But again, that's if the theory holds.

[JasonTodd428]

Cause they want him to die in a series that doesn't suck. Killing off a popular character in a series everyone hates is an insult. Giving Tim some panel time in 'Tec and a likable persona before he dies temporarily will make his death seem more heroic and is less upsetting to his fans.

Actually that's a pretty stupid reason to do it and if it happens then I'm done with this book, which I'm still not 100% on board with anyway. I don't care how much panel time he's had here or his likeable his persona is now character deaths are a plot device that is used entirely too much IMHO and very often for the shock value. Character deaths have become a joke that I'm sick of. I don't see a point in Tynion killing him off and I don't really think its wise for him to do so while having Harper coming into the series. Harper gets enough backlash as it is and you can bet this will create one huge mess if the rumor is true.

I still think the lot of you are barking up the wrong tree here but I suppose we'll have to see.

[Caivu]

Actually that's a pretty stupid reason to do it and if it happens then I'm done with this book, which I'm still not 100% on board with anyway. I don't care how much panel time he's had here or his likeable his persona is now character deaths are a plot device that is used entirely too much IMHO and very often for the shock value. Character deaths have become a joke that I'm sick of. I don't see a point in Tynion killing him off and I don't really think its wise for him to do so while having Harper coming into the series. Harper gets enough backlash as it is and you can bet this will create one huge mess if the rumor is true.

I still think the lot of you are barking up the wrong tree here but I suppose we'll have to see.

Aren't you forgetting the whole "he's going to get resurrected and thus play an incredibly important role in the larger narrative" part of the theory?

[Atlanta96]

Actually that's a pretty stupid reason to do it and if it happens then I'm done with this book, which I'm still not 100% on board with anyway. I don't care how much panel time he's had here or his likeable his persona is now character deaths are a plot device that is used entirely too much IMHO and very often for the shock value. Character deaths have become a joke that I'm sick of. I don't see a point in Tynion killing him off and I don't really think its wise for him to do so while having Harper coming into the series. Harper gets enough backlash as it is and you can bet this will create one huge mess if the rumor is true.

I still think the lot of you are barking up the wrong tree here but I suppose we'll have to see.

I'm obviously a huge fan of Tim and want him to be as popular as possible. At the moment, the character is stuck in a situation where many readers believe the character is obsolete, superfluous and aimless now that Damian is Robin and his last TT run was an epic failure. New comic readers have nothing to draw them to the character aside from a supporting role in a decent series.

I really think a storyline based around Tim's death and resurrection that ends up elevating his role in the Bat-Family, or even the DCU in general, is the best thing that could happen to the character. A sudden out of nowhere death in the first arc of 'Tec will draw people's attention to Tim, and is his resurrection is handled well enough it could be the best Tim story of all time, and make him incredibly popular again.

If he dies, give it a chance. The Bat-Family is in good hands right now.

[JasonTodd428]

Aren't you forgetting the whole "he's going to get resurrected and thus play an incredibly important role in the larger narrative" part of the theory?

Having a character die and then be resurrected not to long after is what's lame about it. It makes everything connected with that character's death ring hollow to me and I end up having no emotional investment in the story at all whether its the actual issue the character is killed in, the aftermath of it or when the character returns. It makes the entire thing feel meaningless to me and it doesn't matter how well written it is or how heroic or even if the character's death and resurrection have some important role in the larger narrative. Its a big gripe I have with comic book deaths and its a long standing one caused by the big two overusing it.

[Tony]

Having a character die and then be resurrected not to long after is what's lame about it. It makes everything connected with that character's death ring hollow to me and I end up having no emotional investment in the story at all whether its the actually issue the character is killed in, the aftermath of it or when the character returns. It makes the entire thing feel meaningless to me and it doesn't matter how well written it is or how heroic or even if the character's death and resurrection have some important role in the larger narrative. Its a big gripe I have with comic book deaths and its a long standing one caused by the big two overusing it.

I agree, killing Tim even if you planned on dumping him in a Lazarus Pit 6 months later may be a bridge too far. I guess if it all occurred in the same story arc it's fine but IF they went with a whole funeral for a Tim thing I'd probably drop the book even though it's been one of the best rebirth titles. I really think a story like that would go against the whole point of the relaunch and kill the momentum.

[darkseidpwns]

Having a character die and then be resurrected not to long after is what's lame about it. It makes everything connected with that character's death ring hollow to me and I end up having no emotional investment in the story at all whether its the actually issue the character is killed in, the aftermath of it or when the character returns. It makes the entire thing feel meaningless to me and it doesn't matter how well written it is or how heroic or even if the character's death and resurrection have some important role in the larger narrative. Its a big gripe I have with comic book deaths and its a long standing one caused by the big two overusing it.

Have to agree with this, deaths should not be formulaic.

[JasonTodd428]

I'm obviously a huge fan of Tim and want him to be as popular as possible. At the moment, the character is stuck in a situation where many readers believe the character is obsolete, superfluous and aimless now that Damian is Robin and his last TT run was an epic failure. New comic readers have nothing to draw them to the character aside from a supporting role in a decent series.

I really think a storyline based around Tim's death and resurrection that ends up elevating his role in the Bat-Family, or even the DCU in general, is the best thing that could happen to the character. A sudden out of nowhere death in the first arc of 'Tec will draw people's attention to Tim, and is his resurrection is handled well enough it could be the best Tim story of all time, and make him incredibly popular again.

If he dies, give it a chance. The Bat-Family is in good hands right now.

This book is hanging by a thread to me so I don't believe that I will even with Tim being a favorite of mine. The problem is I will have absolutely no emotional investment in his death or resurrection because that particular plot devices has been overused by the Big Two and that makes this type of story in a comic boring to me. To put this in perspective for you my two favorite Robins are Jason and Damian. I followed both characters from their introduction, through every issue they appeared in to their deaths and beyond. When Jason was killed I had a strong emotional response to it because I knew he was not coming back. Resurrections were almost unheard of back then so I literally never expected to see him again. Fast forward a number of years to when Damian was killed. I had no emotional response at all to his death and this was entirely because I knew he would be back in short order so the fact that he had died was irrelevant even though it was a heroic and even well written death. I expect I'd have the same exact reaction here with Tim's should it happen and because of that I'm not interested in reading any of it.

[godisawesome]

I'm of the opinion the only kind of "death" Tim could suffer in 'Tec, so early into Rebirth as it is, would be the kind where the reader is in on it being a "faked death" scenario from the word go; as you've pointed out JasonTodd428, having his body physically die and make a resurrection has no dramatic tension for a lot of people. If he did die-die, he'd be the fourth Robin to do so in a way where editorial wants to sell if as true, but none of us would believe it.

Now, if the goal is to get him out of the spotlight for a while so they can rebuild him a little bit more, having him fake his death could do that, and since we apparently are still operating with the questionable New 52 origin, Tim and his parents have a precedent for going into hiding. The biggest issue with even pulling that idea is that a) it's unoriginal, and b) pulling the wool over the rest of the cast's eyes would seem over-the-top. It might be able to work as a play on Tim having Machiavellian tendencies.

[MajorHoy]

If he dies, give it a chance. The Bat-Family is in good hands right now.

Sez you. The main Batman title jumped the shark back in issue #1 (while riding on the back of a teeny-tiny "jumbo jet"), and my past experience with Tynion solo-writing titles has been . . . disappointing in the long-run.

If "Tim Drake" dies, it still seems more likely to me it would be alternate-future-adult Tim Drake in Batman Beyond (especially if Terry is back in the Rebirth version).

[JasonTodd428]

I'm of the opinion the only kind of "death" Tim could suffer in 'Tec, so early into Rebirth as it is, would be the kind where the reader is in on it being a "faked death" scenario from the word go; as you've pointed out JasonTodd428, having his body physically die and make a resurrection has no dramatic tension for a lot of people. If he did die-die, he'd be the fourth Robin to do so in a way where editorial wants to sell if as true, but none of us would believe it.

Now, if the goal is to get him out of the spotlight for a while so they can rebuild him a little bit more, having him fake his death could do that, and since we apparently are still operating with the questionable New 52 origin, Tim and his parents have a precedent for going into hiding. The biggest issue with even pulling that idea is that a) it's unoriginal, and b) pulling the wool over the rest of the cast's eyes would seem over-the-top. It might be able to work as a play on Tim having Machiavellian tendencies.

I would be more accepting of a "faked death" scenario in which the reader is totally aware of it if it was one similar to Dick's recent "death" because then at least someone in story is aware that the character in question isn't dead at all. If, however, it is played up that Tim is "really" dead (like what happened with Bruce at the end of Final Crisis) with no one aware of the fact that it was faked and the characters go through the whole grieving process but the reader still is aware that he's alive that would once again make those events ring very hollowly to me. That's exactly what happened back with Final Crisis. Dick grieving for Bruce lost all of the punch it could have had to me because I knew Bruce wasn't dead. Even Tim's search for him lost some power because of that. I don't enjoy stories like that at all.

If "Tim Drake" dies, it still seems more likely to me it would be alternate-future-adult Tim Drake in Batman Beyond (especially if Terry is back in the Rebirth version).

I happen to think this is the far more likely scenario. It makes more sense to me anyway then killing off the Tim who they are busy trying to course correct in 'Tec. Unless they are planning to have him in a solo book that spins out of his "death" I fail to see how killing him off and possibly having him off the table completely for months would be the best way to do that.