Bring back the Justice Society of America/JSA!!!!

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

There isn't any groundswell for a comic that stars the JSA's legacy characters. Instead there's a groundswell for the Golden Age JSA. So how is it a given that a JSA comic needs the legacy characters in it too? The answer, obviously, is that it's not a given. The comic doesn't need them.

See whether the Golden Age JSA can succeed in a comic without the legacy characters, and see whether the legacy characters can succeed in a comic without the Golden Age JSA. I know who I'd put my money on.

Maybe the legacy characters can fly alone. If so, that's great. But I'm as sure as anyone can be about such things that the Golden Age JSA will fly and doesn't need anyone else on the team.

And nobody is saying launch the book without the classic characters like Jay and Alan. But the entire point of the JSA is, you know, LEGACY (not to mention the tagline of Rebirth). So, part of that includes newer generations taking up the mantles of previous JSA members. You expect the entire team to be made up of characters who, in universe, have been running around since WWII? Or do you expect Ma Hunkel or Ted Knight Starman as members even though both characters have been retired for quite some time?

THIS is the ideal JSA roster:



A mixture of the old AND the new.

[MajorHoy]

Oh, look . . . the Teen JSA!

I'll pass . . . not enough to interest me.

Pretty sure none of them are teens.

Would you prefer "Jr. JSA" then?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Would you prefer "Jr. JSA" then?

No, just the JSA....

The whole point of the team is about encouraging legacy. Part of that obviously includes subsequent generations taking up the mantle. I don't expect old man Johnny Thunder (as shown in Rebirth) to be running into the fray with Thunderbolt.

[MajorHoy]

No, just the JSA....

The whole point of the team is about encouraging legacy. Part of that obviously includes subsequent generations taking up the mantle. I don't expect old man Johnny Thunder (as shown in Rebirth) to be running into the fray with Thunderbolt.

But, with that image you chose to use

I don't even know who the guy in black with glowing eyes is, nor do I care.

And about half of the ones I don't really know what's so interesting about them.

They maybe appeal to people who discovered the JSA within . . . what, the past ten years, and that might be about it?

[Jim Kelly]

Sorry, most of those guys are just random characters that have a tenuous connection to the JSA. If that's the argument for bringing back the Justice Society, I don't get it. Why not bring back the Outsiders, the Power Company, the Young Heroes in Love, the Sovereign Seven, the Darkstars, the Infinity Inc., the Global Guardians? These characters would fit on those teams. They don't make a good argument for DC reviving the concept of a Justice Society and changing continuity to justify the existence of the JSA. It would be a lot easier for DC just to use one of those other teams or create a whole new team without the baggage.

This is the Justice Society of America--

[colonyofcells]

Before Infinity Inc, there was the all star super squad from the 1970s : earth two, a world much like our own, yet slightly different. There, young and old have joined forces to battle evil, the greatest heroes of the golden age returned from retirement to team up with the newest heroes to form the all star super squad. The young and old team was also called the Justice Society of America. Geoff Johns tends to follow the young and old concept from the 1970s.

[Jim Kelly]

Before Infinity Inc, there was the all star super squad from the 1970s : earth two, a world much like our own, yet slightly different. There, young and old have joined forces to battle evil, the greatest heroes of the golden age returned from retirement to team up with the newest heroes to form the all star super squad. The young and old team was also called the Justice Society of America. Geoff Johns tends to follow the young and old concept from the 1970s.

I remember that. This was part of Conway's Corner. But the interesting thing to see, as those issues came out, was the gradual shift in the concept as they went along. Conway seems to have thought that a group of youngsters would make the concept hip and the first issue (ALL-STAR COMICS 58) plays down the Justice Society of America--this is the Super Squad.



But with each issue to follow, the Super Squad becomes less important and it's the Justice Society as a whole that's featured until by issue 66 that whole Super Squad thing is completely dropped and the Justice Society of America is the complete focus. By this time Paul Levitz was the writer.



I can't say for certain, but my sense was at the time that Conway misread the mood of the readership. And DC soon realized that what fans really wanted was the Justice Society of America.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Sorry, most of those guys are just random characters that have a tenuous connection to the JSA. If that's the argument for bringing back the Justice Society, I don't get it. Why not bring back the Outsiders, the Power Company, the Young Heroes in Love, the Sovereign Seven, the Darkstars, the Infinity Inc., the Global Guardians? These characters would fit on those teams. They don't make a good argument for DC reviving the concept of a Justice Society and changing continuity to justify the existence of the JSA. It would be a lot easier for DC just to use one of those other teams or create a whole new team without the baggage.

This is the Justice Society of America--

Back in 1972, yes, that was the JSA. But the team evolved. It changed. For starters, Ma Hunkel and Ted Knight have been retired for how long now? Like, at least since the mid-90s. Likewise, that grown up version of Robin and Earth 2 Hawkman haven't been relevant since COIE.

And as for those "tenuous" connections those characters have to the JSA? Uh, let's see. Cyclone is the granddaughter of Ma Hunkel, Nathan Heywood/Citizen Steel is the grandson of Hank Heywood the first Commander Steel, Tom Bronson is the son of Ted Grant, etc. So these characters were essentially made to be successors to the original JSA members. And are you seriously going to say that Courtney Whitmore has tenuous connections to the JSA even when she is in every essence the spiritual successor to Ted and Jack Knight?

The point of bringing back these characters alongside the classic JSA members is that they are a product of the JSA's adventures through the years. They are signifiers of the development that the team and the individual characters on the team have gone through for about three decades. That is what makes them important.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

But, with that image you chose to use

I don't even know who the guy in black with glowing eyes is, nor do I care.

King Chimera

And about half of the ones I don't really know what's so interesting about them.

They maybe appeal to people who discovered the JSA within . . . what, the past ten years, and that might be about it?

See my post above. I don't understand the mentality that development of characters, even if its not palatable to some fans, should be outright erased. Maybe swept under the rug maybe, but nothing should ever be erased from a character's continuity or background. These characters are signifiers of the exact thing that the JSA symbolizes: legacy and the passing of the torch. Not to mention that they are hallmarks of the development that the team has gone through for the past several decades.

Imagining the JSA without Courtney Whitmore and the narrative she brings with her as the successor to Ted and Jack Knight at this point is like imagining the Green Lantern Corps without Kyle Rayner.

[BatmanJones]

And are you seriously going to say that Courtney Whitmore has tenuous connections to the JSA even when she is in every essence the spiritual successor to Ted and Jack Knight?

I agree with your whole post. I think this is an appropriate analogy: the pre-Crisis JSA was the 70's Titans that we're reading about in Titans now and the Johns team with legacy characters was the New Teen Titans (with Starfire, Raven, Changeling, and Cyborg - characters that had less than a tenuous connection to the original team because they had zero connection). And, of course, Johns' JSA update with the legacy characters was hugely popular for a long time. Just as NTT outsold the original TT.

Now, Trey Strain will tell you there is only one way for this title to succeed. He has listed about 10 things that they MUST NOT DO or the series will DEFINITELY fail.

It is a well-known thing here that Trey posts his opinions as facts. At least 10 posters have told him how boorish it is but he continues.

So if you want opinions, mine is above. Only Trey can give you the FACTS though. I guess that's his superpower.

[Jim Kelly]

If DC puts the Justice Society on the same Earth as the Justice League and if the JSA existed before the JLA, then I think it's safe to assume that the JLA is the successor of the JSA. They just chose to call themselves a League instead of a Society because it sounded cooler.

The Justice League then goes from being a core group of seven members to being this big tent clearing house for modern day super-heroes. So, in relation to the JLA, what purpose does the JSA serve? This was the thing I always was struggling with during the pre-Flashpoint runs. Was the JSA just becoming the Legion of Justice League Rejects?

Obviously, if things had been different in the past or if the JSA existed on its own Earth, then it wouldn't need to carve out an identity for itself in contrast to the Justice League. But on a world where there is a Justice League--that is a second generation Justice Society--then the JSA needs to have a raison d'etre. Otherwise I don't know what distinguishes it from the other groups or why it has a special right to exist on that Earth. Why wouldn't they just retire and let the Justice League take over as the United Nations to their League of Nations?

[JackDaw]

when bringing back multiverse was first mooted I assumed there would be a redistribution of heroes to different "verses". I assumed Captain Marvel, for example, would be moved.

I thought it was "obvious" that JSA would get its own verse, and there would be periodic JLA/ JSA team- ups.

How wrong I was. I never realised that DC's grand plan was to make return of multi- verse effectively pointless, by cramming even more characters onto same main world.

[colonyofcells]

Since New 52 started, Captain Atom, Captain Marvel, Michael Holt and Spectre were all on clutter earth so I did not get the impression that Dc was giving up clutter earth. The only thing I did not like about clutter earth was that there is no golden age Superman and no golden age Batman. With Wonder Woman being immortal, it is possible for Wonder Woman to be part of the golden age Justice Society on clutter earth. One way to have a golden age Superman and golden age Batman on clutter earth is to have current Superman and current Batman travel back in time for a few adventures with the golden age Justice Society. The pre coie earth 2 probably also exists. As for legacies, I prefer both Jack Knight (Starman legacy) and Courtney Whitmore (Star Spangled Kid legacy) on the clutter earth Justice Society like the James Robinson JSA. Mike Dugan can be the Stripesy legacy.

[The Darknight Detective]

Before Infinity Inc, there was the all star super squad from the 1970s : earth two, a world much like our own, yet slightly different. There, young and old have joined forces to battle evil, the greatest heroes of the golden age returned from retirement to team up with the newest heroes to form the all star super squad. The young and old team was also called the Justice Society of America. Geoff Johns tends to follow the young and old concept from the 1970s.

Outside of the Golden Age, the Bronze Age was the best time for the JSA, IMO. Unlike the post-COIE JSA, they were just as strong as the JLA of Earth-1. They also had legacy characters like the DCU version had, yet without turning any of their Earth-1 versions into one. Frankly, I really can't see any advantage of having both teams created on the same Earth.

[Trey Strain]

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