"All-New X-Men" #12 Features Surprise Return Of Major X-Villain

[jackolover]

I don't think it's about Jean being a Mary sue, but about readers having high expectations from her and marvel being unable to oblige. With teen Jean you've got the excuse that she's young

Teen Jean was absolutely revolted she would become the Phoenix. Much like she was revolted Teen Cyke would become a P5 and destroy Charles. Knowing you are destined for horrible things made Teen Jean reject Teen Cyke, and I'd think by her telekinesis, reject Phoenix if it ever came knocking on her door, too. She should have a powerful enough TK to push the Phoenix away?

[WallStreeter]

This isn't Wood's resurrected Madelyne, it's the Baron Pryor from Hopeless' Secret Wars Inferno miniseries. She must've used her Nightcrawler steed and hopped dimensions as Battleworld imploded.

She added Darkchilde's powers to her own after Darkchilde was killed by the soulsword, so she could have hopped dimensions herself.

[Moondoggie]

It's only spot on if you ignore all of her previous character development, such as the entire point of the Liu series.

What character development? The Liu series was a step back honestly. She took everything that was built on in New X Men,X Force and the Messiah Trilogy and regressed it to where she's miserable again. It started getting mildly better at the end but most of that was used to killed off the ship with Hellion for no reason.

And besides all that it's been a long time since then and she's gone through many different experiences and met a lot of new people. She's come out of all that and is now for the first time since New X Men living something that resembles a stable life with supportive people around her and a romance. Of course she's changed.

Hopeless bringing back some of Inferno could be fun that book had a pretty fun sense of humour and he needs an excuse to write some Domilossus pages I'm sure XD.

[MikaelNovasun]

What character development? The Liu series was a step back honestly. She took everything that was built on in New X Men,X Force and the Messiah Trilogy and regressed it to where she's miserable again. It started getting mildly better at the end but most of that was used to killed off the ship with Hellion for no reason.

And besides all that it's been a long time since then and she's gone through many different experiences and met a lot of new people. She's come out of all that and is now for the first time since New X Men living something that resembles a stable life with supportive people around her and a romance. Of course she's changed.

Hopeless bringing back some of Inferno could be fun that book had a pretty fun sense of humour and he needs an excuse to write some Domilossus pages I'm sure XD.

Up until the Liu series Laura took suggestions and directives from Scott and Logan as commands she had to follow. She did not know or realize she could say no, due to her conditioning. The whole X-force run was her falling back into old habits of killing and taking orders. Logan realizes she is back sliding and boots her from the team. It isn't until she hits the road to spend time on her own with Gambit tagging along, where Laura finally starts making her own choices. How is that not character development? I will say Hellion was mishandled. I do see a reason for the falling out, Laura was on a road of self discovery making her own choices, and she may have seen Hellion trying to restart a relationship as forcing a choice on her when she was still finding herself. At the same time the way Liu wrote Hellion, and how the falling out was actually written leaves a lot to be desired.

As for this issue of ANX, it is the best one yet with regards to Laura(which isn't saying much) since it explains her behavior somewhat. But it ignores the Bendis run where the Teen X-men had already accepted her and knew of her issues/past, and did not expect "normal" from her.

[WallStreeter]

Teen Jean was absolutely revolted she would become the Phoenix. Much like she was revolted Teen Cyke would become a P5 and destroy Charles. Knowing you are destined for horrible things made Teen Jean reject Teen Cyke, and I'd think by her telekinesis, reject Phoenix if it ever came knocking on her door, too. She should have a powerful enough TK to push the Phoenix away?

She wasn't revolted by becoming the Phoenix. She was revolted by the fact she was corrupted into becoming Dark Phoenix thanks to Mastermind, killing a few billion, and dying for the first time. She died a second time at the hands of Xorn.

In No More Humans Jeen did become Phoenix upon meeting a Dark Phoenix version of herself, who she ended up bringing back towards the light. She saved the world's human population! During Black Vortex if it meant saving Spartax Jeen was willing to submit to the Black Vortex.

[Celestialbodies]

In situations where writers want to use a character especially a character that has actual ties, history, and emotional connections to the characters involved in the comic why do writers always choose the more nonsensical route. I personally look forward to seeing where this goes but I think using Maddie who'd only just recently been resurrected in XX might have done wonders for that whole multiple alternate reality characters, clones, derivatives, or off-shoots that seem to run rampant within the X-franchise.

that's kind of thing with God like Mary Sues...they kind are better off being symbols.

Do readers even know WHAT a Mary Sue is anymore, or is it just a term causally and quite lazily applied to any character who has a lot of power?

She wasn't revolted by becoming the Phoenix. She was revolted by the fact she was corrupted into becoming Dark Phoenix thanks to Mastermind, killing a few billion, and dying for the first time. She died a second time at the hands of Xorn.

In No More Humans Jeen did become Phoenix upon meeting a Dark Phoenix version of herself, who she ended up bringing back towards the light. She saved the world's human population! During Black Vortex if it meant saving Spartax Jeen was willing to submit to the Black Vortex.

Moreso the first time she came into actual contact with the Phoenix in BOTA, she called a Phoenix empowered Quentin Quire beautiful.

[Galen Nycroft]

Sadly, the only thing keeping me on this book is the artwork, which reminds me so much of Alan Davis style. The clean inks and bright colors have me nostalgic for 90s Excalibur. The writing is awful IMO, and the characters are really annoying. Idie is useless, and don't understand why she is even on the team. Cyclops personality is even more annoying than his older incarnation if that's possible. More Warren/Angel manipulation...it's getting really stale now. Evan could be interesting if they give him an identity outside of Apocalypse. X-23...still not fond of her "Wolverina" act. I dunno...the book is lame. And now fake Madelyne Pryor is back for probably issues before she is killed inevitably (again...sigh).

[somacula]

I think Hopeless is fond of his Madelyne so he won't kill her, but might even keep her around as Cyclops replacement

[Beaubier]

What character development? The Liu series was a step back honestly. She took everything that was built on in New X Men,X Force and the Messiah Trilogy and regressed it to where she's miserable again. It started getting mildly better at the end but most of that was used to killed off the ship with Hellion for no reason.

And besides all that it's been a long time since then and she's gone through many different experiences and met a lot of new people. She's come out of all that and is now for the first time since New X Men living something that resembles a stable life with supportive people around her and a romance. Of course she's changed.

Hopeless bringing back some of Inferno could be fun that book had a pretty fun sense of humour and he needs an excuse to write some Domilossus pages I'm sure XD.

You're kidding, right? If anything this book is a step back, not the Liu series. Laura was miserable in Liu's series because she was "waking up" to everything she'd done. She was learning to feel and processing having emotions about who she was, her past, etc, things she didn't let herself feel in NXM and X-Force. She had support from people who cared about her despite everything, and she learned she deserved better. She learned to stop hating herself. She learned to have hope. She also stopped cutting, considering it's never been shown or mentioned again until now.

So all this masochism, resurgence of self hatred, pretending to be someone else because she can't deal with herself, and cutting (again) is what's the step back. This was all coped with in the Liu series and as we can see in ANW Laura moved on from that. But according to Hopeless she never did.

[MikaelNovasun]

You're kidding, right? If anything this book is a step back, not the Liu series. Laura was miserable in Liu's series because she was "waking up" to everything she'd done. She was learning to feel and processing having emotions about who she was, her past, etc, things she didn't let herself feel in NXM and X-Force. She had support from people who cared about her despite everything, and she learned she deserved better. She learned to stop hating herself. She learned to have hope. She also stopped cutting, considering it's never been shown or mentioned again until now.

So all this masochism, resurgence of self hatred, pretending to be someone else because she can't deal with herself, and cutting (again) is what's the step back. This was all coped with in the Liu series and as we can see in ANW Laura moved on from that. But according to Hopeless she never did.

In regards to her cutting I don't think she is doing it again, I think she told Angel about her past and he brought it up again trying to deflect her.

[DDM]

Laura's not cutting but Hopeless does have her exploring masochism in other ways with her wrecklessness. That seems like legimiate and interesting progression I think, much more so than we see with Laura in her jokey solo (but really a team-up) book.

Self hate and harm isn't sonething you just magically are over one day. Even with the power of friendship or whatever nonsense. Logan himself never really got past seeing himself as without value.

[JeanGreyForever]

That's like saying when someone having sex with X 23 is banging Logan...
Maddie is her own person and doesn't take comparisons with Jean lightly...

Maddie and Jean are a completely different case compared to Laura and Logan. Maddie doesn't just share Jean's DNA...she literally didn't exist until the Phoenix brought her to life with Jean's memories, psyche, and life force. That makes Maddie more than just a clone or identical twin, but another manifestation of Jean herself.

[nx01a]

Cosmic Angel vs demons reminds me of Archangel vs demons on his way to kill Cameron Hodge during Inferno.
Warren's always battling his demons.

[MikaelNovasun]

Laura's not cutting but Hopeless does have her exploring masochism in other ways with her wrecklessness. That seems like legimiate and interesting progression I think, much more so than we see with Laura in her jokey solo (but really a team-up) book.

Self hate and harm isn't sonething you just magically are over one day. Even with the power of friendship or whatever nonsense. Logan himself never really got past seeing himself as without value.

I would see this as a legitimate progression if she didn't go through the character progression of the Liu series, Bendis' ANX(even with the OOC dialog), Avengers Academy, Logan's Death and the the Agent Venom/Ghost Rider/Red Hulk crossover where she finally realizes she is more than just a soulless clone. Each arc showed growth and Hopeless is ignoring most of it.

[Hulkout42]

Unfortunately considering that happened in the same issue that he continued the Laurren relationship, which it seems most of the fanbase hates, he's stuck in neutral with this issue.

I agree, her reveal at the end did not help take the bitterness out of my mouth upon seeing those two back together...why? WHY!?