Vision Issue #10 Spoilers

[Johnrevenge]

This issue was truly heartbreaking. King had done a great job through all the series and it will be sad seeing it ending.

[Quasar's Bands]

Interesting that Vision has left the house and Avengers presume he's going to kill a certain character. I didn't presume that. His dialogue left me to think that Vision has meditated on it all and realized that forgiveness is something that that character desperately needs because Vision knows the unique and depressing problems that robots and synthazoids face, and the anguish and self-doubt that goes along with it.

[Witchfan]

Do the Visions have souls? The Vision used to have a soul before Vision Quest ("Love is for souls, not bodies."), but that story effectively murdered him and all that was left after was a robot. Daniel Drumm tried to possess Vision in New Avengers and couldn't because Vision said he had no soul. Perhaps Tom King disagrees with John Byrne and Brian Bendis and believes that the Vision does have a soul.

[AJpyro]

Do the Visions have souls? The Vision used to have a soul before Vision Quest ("Love is for souls, not bodies."), but that story effectively murdered him and all that was left after was a robot. Daniel Drumm tried to possess Vision in New Avengers and couldn't because Vision said he had no soul. Perhaps Tom King disagrees with John Byrne and Brian Bendis and believes that the Vision does have a soul.

Well after SW, anything goes.

[CentralPower]

I love this series. (But, single issues suffer for it being written to be read as a compilation.)

My reading is that Vision was on his way to kill Mancha.

For the sake of simplicity, I will assume that Vision and Mancha count as equally human. (As they are both artificial, and created by the same hand, it is safe to assume they have comparable moral worth.) Legally, revenge killings are not permissible. But, morally, a revenge killing may be obligatory in a situation like this.

I am sure that Taylor will offer a case against killing Mancha in the next issue. I am interested in how he frames it.

[HsssH]

Wouldn't be surprised if Vision comes to the conclusion that he should forgive, but someone (probably an Avenger) makes a rushed decision which starts a fight that ends badly for someone.

[Inhuman X]

I love this series. (But, single issues suffer for it being written to be read as a compilation.)

My reading is that Vision was on his way to kill Mancha.

For the sake of simplicity, I will assume that Vision and Mancha count as equally human. (As they are both artificial, and created by the same hand, it is safe to assume they have comparable moral worth.) Legally, revenge killings are not permissible. But, morally, a revenge killing may be obligatory in a situation like this.

I am sure that Taylor will offer a case against killing Mancha in the next issue. I am interested in how he frames it.

I don't know if he is on the way to kill Mancha for sure but he is definitely looking for a confrontation and some sense of resolution. Then, what will his wife accept? Vision flew off alone but I will not be surprised if she shows up. I have a hard time seeing her leave him to this fight alone particularly after her daughter was harmed and her son murdered. Would she stand by idly and risk losing her husband too particularly in her current state?

Would Mancha working on behalf of the Avengers shield him from charges, particularly when you would have to prove Vision's son wasn't just another toaster?

Wouldn't be surprised if Vision comes to the conclusion that he should forgive, but someone (probably an Avenger) makes a rushed decision which starts a fight that ends badly for someone.

Does Vision, an AI powered being, have a Bat Man plan? What I mean is, a plan on how to take down each avenger in case they went rogue? He want's justice for his son but is he willing to kill Tony, Jane, or Sam to do it?

[CentralPower]

Vision specifically threatened to kill Stark in issue 4(?), when he was trying to repair his daughter. (Stark was concerned about possible blowback from the attempt. Vision told Stark to let it happen.) So, it is not outside the realm of possibility that King would have Vision threaten/attack the Avengers will real intent to harm them.

Would Mancha working on behalf of the Avengers shield him from charges, particularly when you would have to prove Vision's son wasn't just another toaster?

If Mancha was facing charges, then one would have to assume that Vin was not simply a toaster. Both Mancha and Vin were created as robots (or whatever) by other robots (or whatever you call them).

Mancha working for the Avengers would make things messy, possibly exposing the Avengers. But, his use of vibranium (apparently the hot new drug for robots) would also complicate things.

I don't know if he is on the way to kill Mancha for sure but he is definitely looking for a confrontation and some sense of resolution. Then, what will his wife accept? Vision flew off alone but I will not be surprised if she shows up. I have a hard time seeing her leave him to this fight alone particularly after her daughter was harmed and her son murdered. Would she stand by idly and risk losing her husband too particularly in her current state?

Vision seems to have settled on the idea that Vin being dead while Mancha lives is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Virginia may be so damaged that she cannot make a decision. She has been shown to do the proper things a mother can do (such as protect her off-spring). What she did to Reaper was wholly justified. (Any mother who did less would be a failure.) She would be justified in staying home and protecting her remaining child. (There really are no good choices here.)

Aside, does anybody else think that Taylor originally intended for Mancha to kill Vivian? In issue 3 (maybe 4?), Harkness' narration indicates that Vivian is going to have a shorter than expected life. But, we know that Vivian is going to show up in the Mark Waid "Champions" series. Maybe Marvel editorial mandated a change? (Vivian could survive past the end of the series, and still die "young". But, it would make more sense for her to have died during the series.)

[Quasar's Bands]

Vision specifically threatened to kill Stark in issue 4(?), when he was trying to repair his daughter. (Stark was concerned about possible blowback from the attempt. Vision told Stark to let it happen.) So, it is not outside the realm of possibility that King would have Vision threaten/attack the Avengers will real intent to harm them.




If Mancha was facing charges, then one would have to assume that Vin was not simply a toaster. Both Mancha and Vin were created as robots (or whatever) by other robots (or whatever you call them).

Mancha working for the Avengers would make things messy, possibly exposing the Avengers. But, his use of vibranium (apparently the hot new drug for robots) would also complicate things.





Vision seems to have settled on the idea that Vin being dead while Mancha lives is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Virginia may be so damaged that she cannot make a decision. She has been shown to do the proper things a mother can do (such as protect her off-spring). What she did to Reaper was wholly justified. (Any mother who did less would be a failure.) She would be justified in staying home and protecting her remaining child. (There really are no good choices here.)

Aside, does anybody else think that Taylor originally intended for Mancha to kill Vivian? In issue 3 (maybe 4?), Harkness' narration indicates that Vivian is going to have a shorter than expected life. But, we know that Vivian is going to show up in the Mark Waid "Champions" series. Maybe Marvel editorial mandated a change? (Vivian could survive past the end of the series, and still die "young". But, it would make more sense for her to have died during the series.)

Harkness could also just be wrong, as she has been shown to be wrong before. Heck, it might not even BE Harkness but someone posing as Harkness to get everyone all freaked out and cause the problems that have happened in the first place! Maybe I read it differently, but I swear showing Vision anguishing over the unfairness of Mancha being alive but his son dead, and then the whole consideration of religion and faith, lead me to think he is heading to "forgive" not "kill." I agree, however, the Avengers will screw up AGAIN, as they often do, and Vivian will get caught in the fight and be killed as well - leading Vision to probably removing his emotions or something....

[CentralPower]

Nah, Vivian is going to survive (at least long enough to be in "Champions").

Next issue will answer our questions about Vision's plan for Mancha.

[Inhuman X]

Vision specifically threatened to kill Stark in issue 4(?), when he was trying to repair his daughter. (Stark was concerned about possible blowback from the attempt. Vision told Stark to let it happen. So, it is not outside the realm of possibility that King would have Vision threaten/attack the Avengers will real intent to harm them.

If Mancha was facing charges, then one would have to assume that Vin was not simply a toaster. Both Mancha and Vin were created as robots (or whatever) by other robots (or whatever you call them). Mancha working for the Avengers would make things messy, possibly exposing the Avengers. But, his use of vibranium (apparently the hot new drug for robots) would also complicate things.

Vision seems to have settled on the idea that Vin being dead while Mancha lives is a problem that needs to be addressed. Virginia may be so damaged that she cannot make a decision. She has been shown to do the proper things a mother can do (such as protect her off-spring). What she did to Reaper was wholly justified. (Any mother who did less would be a failure.) She would be justified in staying home and protecting her remaining child. (There really are no good choices here.)

Aside, does anybody else think that Taylor originally intended for Mancha to kill Vivian? In issue 3 (maybe 4?), Harkness' narration indicates that Vivian is going to have a shorter than expected life. But, we know that Vivian is going to show up in the Mark Waid "Champions" series. Maybe Marvel editorial mandated a change? (Vivian could survive past the end of the series, and still die "young". But, it would make more sense for her to have died during the series.)

I don't doubt Vision feels enough love for his family to kill in their defense. The religious questions though still leave a doorway to settling on forgiveness over retribution when they meet. I just don't see him settling on murder yet. There will have to be a final push of some sort to cross that line.

Just because Mancha is being investigated or facing charges does not mean that he will be charged unless the DA and other parties in overseeing the interpretation of law conclude that they have a winnable case in court. We really don't know how they will interpret things or conclude on something as simple as person-hood and if vibranium use is an illegal substance abuse if its not in a statute. I may be over complicating or expecting a level of detail the writer wants to skim over though.

I am not going to be able to answer the question regarding Viv until the last issue is done. You may be right but a lot can happen in two issues. It has been such a good series that I would hate to see editorial on high ruin the story.

Edit: The saddest thing to happen might be for Virginia to simply short out...

[Johnrevenge]

I don't doubt Vision feels enough love for his family to kill in their defense. The religious questions though still leave a doorway to settling on forgiveness over retribution when they meet. I just don't see him settling on murder yet. There will have to be a final push of some sort to cross that line.

Just because Mancha is being investigated or facing charges does not mean that he will be charged unless the DA and other parties in overseeing the interpretation of law conclude that they have a winnable case in court. We really don't know how they will interpret things or conclude on something as simple as person-hood and if vibranium use is an illegal substance abuse if its not in a statute. I may be over complicating or expecting a level of detail the writer wants to skim over though.

I am not going to be able to answer the question regarding Viv until the last issue is done. You may be right but a lot can happen in two issues. It has been such a good series that I would hate to see editorial on high ruin the story.

Edit: The saddest thing to happen might be for Virginia to simply short out...

I think that Victor will also be charged with the death of the neighbours in the previous issue (the old couple that died in the fire). Vin set the fire accidentally because Victor was killing him, so technically Victor is also responsible of those deaths.

And seeing the mental state of Virginia through the issue, a part of me think that she can probably end destroying herself.

[stingray]

I can't believe 3 people actually voted that this was a bad comic.

[Inhuman X]

I can't believe 3 people actually voted that this was a bad comic.

To each their own. They were locked in a house and full of depression. Good for story motivation maybe but that's not something everyone will want in a comic book. Some people want to come out happy on the other end of a read. I don't want to discourage people from giving their honest take, good or bad, if they choose. Though I am curious.

Vision #11 Sales Blurb - Coming on September 21st: The Avengers draw a line in the sand. They tell Vision he is not to cross this line. If he does, they will destroy him. "Remember," they say. "You're an Avenger. First. Always." "Stay where you are," they say. "Don't cross the line," they say. Vision nods. He tells them he understands. Then Vision crosses the line. The end is coming for the most critically acclaimed book of the year, and no one is safe. Don't miss the issue everyone will be talking about.

[doomeye56]

Viv can die young and still not have it happen for hundreds of years. Vision is commonly showed appearing 1000's of years in the future.