Amazing Spider-Man #16 Discussion

[Webhead]

Barring the character development thrown into the trash, I don't think Kaine has the kind of know-how to pull it off. Peter certainly doesn't, and Kaine's supposed to be as smart as he is, maybe less since he doesn't put his wits to work much. If it's something purely mystical, still doesn't make much sense, cause the Other doesn't really seem that altruistic (or even sufficiently powerful) to be resurrecting non-totems left and right.
What I'm trying to say is, I hope it's not Kaine... He does look too young to be Warren now, though, but he could've used his own tech on himself for all we know.

[Pav]

Barring the character development thrown into the trash, I don't think Kaine has the kind of know-how to pull it off. Peter certainly doesn't, and Kaine's supposed to be as smart as he is, maybe less since he doesn't put his wits to work much. If it's something purely mystical, still doesn't make much sense, cause the Other doesn't really seem that altruistic (or even sufficiently powerful) to be resurrecting non-totems left and right.
What I'm trying to say is, I hope it's not Kaine... He does look too young to be Warren now, though, but he could've used his own tech on himself for all we know.

Kaine does have a history of clone-making himself, although in a very limited capacity. (I'm thinking of "Redemption".)

My guess is that whatever happened to him since Spiderverse has changed his outlook and maybe even his powers/abilities.

-Pav, who still likes Kaine's original status quo best...

[stillanerd]

I would file this comic under the category of "It's not bad, but it's not great either." Though I do think it's strange that, considering all the times Peter has dealt with cloning over the years, he doesn't seem to recognize actual cloning when he sees it. And yes, I'm talking about spoilers:

New U growing human transplant organs

end of spoilers

Stillanerd Reviews: Amazing Spider-Man (2015) #16

[Rob London]

I still think the Jackal is actually Kaine.

I mean, he IS the one clone who has actually been resurrected...

multiple times....

Plus, the Jackal's new color scheme kinda matches Kaine's Scarlet costume.

-Pav, who wonders what his endgame is...

The one flaw in this theory is that cover we've seen of Kaine in his Scarlet Spider costume fighting Carrion.

[Huntsman Spider]

Kaine does have a history of clone-making himself, although in a very limited capacity. (I'm thinking of "Redemption".)

My guess is that whatever happened to him since Spiderverse has changed his outlook and maybe even his powers/abilities.

-Pav, who still likes Kaine's original status quo best...

You mean when he rigged up basically a living doll of Elizabeth Tyne/Janine Godbe and killed her or had her killed in front of Ben Reilly to make Ben think the real Janine/Elizabeth was dead, thus destroying the one positive thing Ben had in his life to take away the pain of knowing he wasn't "real"?

[Pav]

The one flaw in this theory is that cover we've seen of Kaine in his Scarlet Spider costume fighting Carrion.

Drat.

Misdirection?

(Or my theory is wrong.)

You mean when he rigged up basically a living doll of Elizabeth Tyne/Janine Godbe and killed her or had her killed in front of Ben Reilly to make Ben think the real Janine/Elizabeth was dead, thus destroying the one positive thing Ben had in his life to take away the pain of knowing he wasn't "real"?

Yessir.

-Pav, who's sticking to his metaphorical guns...

[Cosmic Spider]

Perhaps the Man in Red is a refugee from Loomworld. This super advanced cloning technology makes me suspect Jackeloff was a favored servant of Jennix; One who now seeks vengeance on Peter. Perhaps Jackeloff wishes to find and rescue the Inheritors?

[boots]

gotta say, not a huge fan of old allies turned to enemies schtick. i used to love it, but not only has it been done to death, it's been done badly.

so fingers crossed jackal isn't kaine or ben.

[Rob London]

The only thing that's making me wonder if the Jackal isn't Warren is the distinct absence of his John Bolton moustache.

[Pav]

gotta say, not a huge fan of old allies turned to enemies schtick. i used to love it, but not only has it been done to death, it's been done badly.

so fingers crossed jackal isn't kaine or ben.

Oh, I definitely don't want to see Ben in a villainous role. That would be a bitter pill to swallow, unless Slott really nails why the Ben we know and love would be motivated in such a way.

Kaine, on the other hand...

I miss Kaine as more of a wildcard. And while I'm glad Yost gave Kaine the spotlight, him playing straight-up hero never felt quite right to me, so I'd be interested in seeing what else might be done with him.

-Pav, who has a Jackal story in his back pocket that would drive people wild...

[boots]

Oh, I definitely don't want to see Ben in a villainous role. That would be a bitter pill to swallow, unless Slott really nails why the Ben we know and love would be motivated in such a way.

Kaine, on the other hand...

I miss Kaine as more of a wildcard. And while I'm glad Yost gave Kaine the spotlight, him playing straight-up hero never felt quite right to me, so I'd be interested in seeing what else might be done with him.

-Pav, who has a Jackal story in his back pocket that would drive people wild...

i hear you, but i see kaine as less of a mastermind with grand plots and designs and more as a grudge bearing brawler. "redemption" was as big as his scheming needed to go.

thinking on it: i'd actually like to see him enact similar terror campaigns against villains and antagonists in his role as an anti-hero.

[FF-Fighter]

What if it's... NORMAN OSBORN?

+Hiding his face? (Bandages/Mask)
+Knows how to reserect people? (Himself and when he used the Jackal in the 90's saga)
+Uses Spideys villains as a sort of, I dunno team of sinister people?

[Webhead]

Dunno, that'd be pretty dull. And it doesn't fit his motivations (why the Gwen clone? Since we know they're never addressing Sins Past again) nor his personality (claiming he's not a bad guy, "caring" for people enough to resurrect their loved ones).

[The Rhino]

The thing that Daniel J. Slott best understands about Peter is that Peter is a fundamentally flawed character. Peter is flawed because while with great power must come great responsibility is his mantra, he doesn't really understand what this means. This most often means Peter will abandon his responsibilities to try to maintain others (ditches business constantly, can't take care of loved ones properly) or adopt extremes or act hastily to try to uphold some sense of responsibility (this issue). Slott captures that perfectly. I think people who dislike Slott's presentation of Peter do not understand how flawed Peter is as a character.

[Huntsman Spider]

The thing that Daniel J. Slott best understands about Peter is that Peter is a fundamentally flawed character. Peter is flawed because while with great power must come great responsibility is his mantra, he doesn't really understand what this means. This most often means Peter will abandon his responsibilities to try to maintain others (ditches business constantly, can't take care of loved ones properly) or adopt extremes or act hastily to try to uphold some sense of responsibility (this issue). Slott captures that perfectly. I think people who dislike Slott's presentation of Peter do not understand how flawed Peter is as a character.

That's actually a very great point. A lot of Dan Slott's run has been arguably about deconstructing this aspect of Peter's character, and considering all the missed dates and appointments and such left in the wake of Peter's activity as Spider-Man, it's a surprise no one's seriously addressed this sooner. Hell, this may be why Peter seems so ineffectual so often in Slott's run; it's really an outgrowth of how fundamentally unfocused Peter is when it comes to all the responsibilities and obligations he's taken on (or had thrust upon him). I could even see Cat Grant from the Supergirl TV series giving him the same lecture she gave Kara in an early season 1 episode about figuring out where your priorities truly lie and then focusing on that before trying to take on anything else or bigger. Or as Aunt May from the first Spider-Man movie so graciously put it when Peter visited her in the hospital after the Green Goblin's attack on her home: "You do too much. You're not Superman, you know." That's the ultimate lesson Peter has to learn, it seems: he can't do everything and even if he does all he can do, there are things that the people who love and depend on him --- not Spider-Man --- need him to do that only he can do, and that should be what takes the greatest precedence.