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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    This is why I think Skrull Pym is the one that made it malfunction.
    Skrull Pym hadn't been invented yet when Millar wrote Civil War.

  2. #17
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Skrull Pym hadn't been invented yet when Millar wrote Civil War.
    According to Mighty Avengers he was.
    " This is why you're the head of S.H.I.E.L.D, Stark. Because you're stronger than anyone. It's not the armor....and you know it. Your here because impossible things happen, and when they do, They call on you to deal with them. You see the angles, Tony. You always have. You see the possible solutions to things that shouldn't be happening." CAROL DANVERS

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    According to Mighty Avengers he was.
    In 2006, when Mark Millar wrote Hank Pym in Civil War, Skrull Pym hadn't been invented yet.

    Skrull Pym didn't exist until 2008 when Brian Bendis created him for Secret Invasion.

    So whatever Pym did in 2006 may have been retconned in-universe as the actions of a Skrull, it is not they way it was written or intended.

  4. #19
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    In 2006, when Mark Millar wrote Hank Pym in Civil War, Skrull Pym hadn't been invented yet.

    Skrull Pym didn't exist until 2008 when Brian Bendis created him for Secret Invasion.

    So whatever Pym did in 2006 may have been retconned in-universe as the actions of a Skrull, it is not they way it was written or intended.
    They even show Pym as a skrull working on the clone in Avengers The Initaitive
    " This is why you're the head of S.H.I.E.L.D, Stark. Because you're stronger than anyone. It's not the armor....and you know it. Your here because impossible things happen, and when they do, They call on you to deal with them. You see the angles, Tony. You always have. You see the possible solutions to things that shouldn't be happening." CAROL DANVERS

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    They even show Pym as a skrull working on the clone in Avengers The Initaitive
    That does not matter.

    You're completely missing the point.

  6. #21
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    double post
    " This is why you're the head of S.H.I.E.L.D, Stark. Because you're stronger than anyone. It's not the armor....and you know it. Your here because impossible things happen, and when they do, They call on you to deal with them. You see the angles, Tony. You always have. You see the possible solutions to things that shouldn't be happening." CAROL DANVERS

  7. #22
    Mighty Member Johnny Peril's Avatar
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    Hank actually brings it up during an argument with Reed. Pym wants to borrow an invention that Bill left to Ben in his will but Reed feels it's better off in his hands. Kind of ironic because Hank helped build it and it was originally left to him first but he had been replaced by a Skrull.
    MA25.jpg
    "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy... and we shall have peace."

  8. #23
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Peril View Post
    Hank actually brings it up during an argument with Reed. Pym wants to borrow an invention that Bill left to Ben in his will but Reed feels it's better off in his hands. Kind of ironic because Hank helped build it and it was originally left to him first but he had been replaced by a Skrull.
    MA25.jpg
    That's what I thought. I didn't remember it was stated and I actually have that issue.
    " This is why you're the head of S.H.I.E.L.D, Stark. Because you're stronger than anyone. It's not the armor....and you know it. Your here because impossible things happen, and when they do, They call on you to deal with them. You see the angles, Tony. You always have. You see the possible solutions to things that shouldn't be happening." CAROL DANVERS

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Skrull Pym hadn't been invented yet when Millar wrote Civil War.
    I got all the trades lately, and was amused that the initial books had thought bubbles from Pym, and he was super-obviously *not* a Skrull, and then, under the next writer, he'd been a Skrull all along, and I was like, "Whaatt? Did this writer not even bother to read the book before?"

  10. #25
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I got all the trades lately, and was amused that the initial books had thought bubbles from Pym, and he was super-obviously *not* a Skrull, and then, under the next writer, he'd been a Skrull all along, and I was like, "Whaatt? Did this writer not even bother to read the book before?"
    So it was a retcon.
    " This is why you're the head of S.H.I.E.L.D, Stark. Because you're stronger than anyone. It's not the armor....and you know it. Your here because impossible things happen, and when they do, They call on you to deal with them. You see the angles, Tony. You always have. You see the possible solutions to things that shouldn't be happening." CAROL DANVERS

  11. #26
    Mighty Member L.R Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    So it was a retcon.
    It probably was - it should be mentioned though, by those of us who remember it, that Bendis had already planted the seeds of some kind of big conspiracy, and that some unseen force was working against the heroes, even prior to CW - in fact, his entire New Avengers run was initially built on this - all the way from issue #1, when Electro breaks people out of the Raft.

    I'm not sure if it was really Skrulls initially, but the way he writes, he had probably had plans for Secret Invasion in one form or another, Skrulls included, for a VERY long time.

    The part with Pym was probably a retcon though, since he mentioned that they had big meetings about which characters would turn out to be Skrulls, prior to SI - and it seemed like it was AFTER CW these talks took place.


    There's a perfectly reasonable No-prize in-universe explanations for the thought-bubbles though - it was established early on that the reason Telepaths couldn't see the difference between the Skrull copies and the originals was because the Skrull infiltrators all had complex MYSTICALLY transferred memory-implants -PERSONALITY-implants even...! They even had a scene where it was revealed that the Pym-copy had to be replaced, several times, because Pym's personality was so unstable, that he'd start thinking he's Pym, and having his trade-mark Bipolar mixed hyper-switching -which then could end up blowing everything.

    They also had ANOTHER example of this, where the transplanted personality completely overrode the Skrull - Captain Mahr-Vehl - his Secret Invasion intro-mini-series revealed this (and it was GREAT!).

    With this in mind - those thought-bubbles can EASILY be explained away, with the fact that at that moment, the Skrull-imposter Pym really BELIEVED he was Pym.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Don't forget there were two skrulls that were Pym. The first was a female (did she kiss wasp at that time? Wasp might not be happy about that. Then again wasp was "dead" right after that.) who was killed by a male skrull who took over so it was two pyms not one. Maybe the first didn't know about the other skrull agents?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Don't forget there were two skrulls that were Pym. The first was a female (did she kiss wasp at that time? Wasp might not be happy about that. Then again wasp was "dead" right after that.) who was killed by a male skrull who took over so it was two pyms not one. Maybe the first didn't know about the other skrull agents?
    That makes it far less likely that "no really, Mark Millar had totally intended Pym to be a Skrull when he wrote Civil War", not more. Every layer of convolution makes it less likely.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    It's funny because there was a debate recently about people having their own personal continuities for canon events in comics but most of us do it and it's almost inevitable when characters go drastically out of character to further a rather forced storyline.
    which has happened a lot of late.
    Last edited by mrbrklyn; 09-26-2018 at 11:17 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by L.R Johansson View Post
    It probably was - it should be mentioned though, by those of us who remember it, that Bendis had already planted the seeds of some kind of big conspiracy, and that some unseen force was working against the heroes, even prior to CW - in fact, his entire New Avengers run was initially built on this - all the way from issue #1, when Electro breaks people out of the Raft.

    I'm not sure if it was really Skrulls initially, but the way he writes, he had probably had plans for Secret Invasion in one form or another, Skrulls included, for a VERY long time.

    The part with Pym was probably a retcon though, since he mentioned that they had big meetings about which characters would turn out to be Skrulls, prior to SI - and it seemed like it was AFTER CW these talks took place.


    There's a perfectly reasonable No-prize in-universe explanations for the thought-bubbles though - it was established early on that the reason Telepaths couldn't see the difference between the Skrull copies and the originals was because the Skrull infiltrators all had complex MYSTICALLY transferred memory-implants -PERSONALITY-implants even...! They even had a scene where it was revealed that the Pym-copy had to be replaced, several times, because Pym's personality was so unstable, that he'd start thinking he's Pym, and having his trade-mark Bipolar mixed hyper-switching -which then could end up blowing everything.

    They also had ANOTHER example of this, where the transplanted personality completely overrode the Skrull - Captain Mahr-Vehl - his Secret Invasion intro-mini-series revealed this (and it was GREAT!).

    With this in mind - those thought-bubbles can EASILY be explained away, with the fact that at that moment, the Skrull-imposter Pym really BELIEVED he was Pym.
    Didn't that happen to skrull captain america too?

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