What do you think of the Burton/Keaton films?

[rpi]

I avoid them like the plague. Burton was obviously interested in the villains most, supporting cast second, and Batman a distant third. Plus, they have the same unforgivable problem as BvS: Batman killing people left and right. I don't know why movie directors feel a need to make Batman more bloodthirsty than he is. Lack of imagination? Lack of storytelling chops? Regardless, it's a garbage plot device whenever it's used.

All that said, Anton Furst's Gotham, be it in the movies or the comics, will always be Gotham to me.

[JBatmanFan05]

Also: "Producer Michael Uslan remarks that he only let Tim (Burton) see the original year of the Bob Kane/Bill Finger's comic run, up until the time that Robin was introduced. "

So he's to blame lol. He shouldn't have done that IMHO. Let him read more, make him read more, and maybe let him actually decide more (it's only a meaningful decision if you have options and know what they are).
It was a time of Hollywood big shots not respecting comics or having a history of having much read them, but still...it didn't have to be that way.

[Metamorphosis]

So he's to blame lol. He shouldn't have done that IMHO. Let him read more, make him read more, and maybe let him actually decide more (it's only a meaningful decision if you have options and know what they are).
It was a time of Hollywood big shots not respecting comics or having a history of having much read them, but still...it didn't have to be that way.

Or Uslan thought he was putting the purest representation of the Kane / Finger Batman onscreen.

[SiegePerilous02]

Or Uslan thought he was putting the purest representation of the Kane / Finger Batman onscreen.

In that regard, I think he succeeded. They definitely are the Golden Age comics come to life, complete with gun wielding Batman.

I avoid them like the plague. Burton was obviously interested in the villains most, supporting cast second, and Batman a distant third. Plus, they have the same unforgivable problem as BvS: Batman killing people left and right. I don't know why movie directors feel a need to make Batman more bloodthirsty than he is. Lack of imagination? Lack of storytelling chops? Regardless, it's a garbage plot device whenever it's used.

All that said, Anton Furst's Gotham, be it in the movies or the comics, will always be Gotham to me.

Can't dispute the fact that Burton was most interested in the villains, but there really isn't a supporting character who gets more screen time than Batman. Gordon arguably should have gotten way more to do than he did.

And the parallels between Bruce and the villains are way obvious in Returns to be coincidence. Even when he's not on screen, that movie is all about Batman. The Penguin = the Orphan/the Freakish Outcast, Catwoman = the Dark Vigilante created through violence, and Shrek = the Public Billionaire. All three are twisted mirror fragments of various aspects of Bruce...and they all end up killing each other.

[Agent Z]

I liked them though I don't think they've aged well

I think they have wonderful production design and music. They depicted a truly wondrous and otherworldly Gotham, and they managed to make the villains larger than life. The two films have the feel of mythic fantasy. I enjoy watching them.

But their problems are severe. Like a lot of Burton's films, they don't feel rooted in a 'real' world; everything feels like it's a pantomime, play-acting, rather than real stakes and real emotions.
Batman himself is a cipher. You can't have the hero AND the villains be mythic larger than life characters; you need someone recognisably human to root for.
But the biggest problem I have with the movies, especially the first one, is that they don't really work as action/adventure films. The action scenes just aren't very well staged or shot. Batman doesn't have any good fight scenes and doesn't do any real detective work. Plus Burton spends too long with boring original characters like the stupid male reporter in the first film, and Max Shrek in Returns.

Finally, I've come to resent them in retrospect for instilling this idea in Hollywood and fans that the 'ideal' Batman is the grim dark loner type, and that Robin, Batgirl or any of his amazing supporting cast should never ever appear in the films. (The Schumacher movies kinda cemented this idea). Nolan and now Snyder seemed to take that as gospel, sadly.

Nolan's Batman retires happily and Snyder's Batman did have a Robin he just died.

[SiegePerilous02]

Nolan's Batman retires happily and Snyder's Batman did have a Robin he just died.

Yeah, and Nolan's Batman also had his friendships with Alfred, Fox, Gordon and Rachel. He doesn't necessarily need to have the Batfamily to still have human relationships. He was also notably less broody than many other iterations of Batman, even ones who had the family,

And not only did Snyder's Batman have Jason, he also presumably had Dick. Who will most likely be appearing in the DCEU, possibly with Barbara in whatever incarnation they decide to go with. And his new friends in the JL.

[Michael24]

They are still my favorite Batman movies. I prefer the first one a little more than the second but I love them both. And Michelle Pfeiffer is still the best live-action Catwoman, IMO. (With all due respect to Julie Newmar and Lee Meriweather.)

[SicariiDC]

And not only did Snyder's Batman have Jason, he also presumably had Dick. Who will most likely be appearing in the DCEU, possibly with Barbara in whatever incarnation they decide to go with. And his new friends in the JL.

Where do u get any of this from? There was a dead Robin uniform, and Suicide Squad intros. Thats it. Presumably Dick? Is that based on anything?

[SiegePerilous02]

Where do u get any of this from? There was a dead Robin uniform, and Suicide Squad intros. Thats it. Presumably Dick? Is that based on anything?

Affleck did some interviews at some point saying that Batman is better with a Family. I believe it was in the same one where he said the best Batman stories are detective stories.

A WB tour guide was quoted as confirming it was Jason while doing a tour of the set. And if Jason is here, they wouldn't have him be the first and only Robin, so that means Dick was around. If they were planning on the dead Robin being Dick at any point, they sure as Hell aren't now with the fallout from BvS's dark tone, along with giving Johns more power.

Article about the tour guide: http://batman-news.com/2016/05/21/de...an-jason-todd/

[SicariiDC]

Affleck did some interviews at some point saying that Batman is better with a Family. I believe it was in the same one where he said the best Batman stories are detective stories.

A WB tour guide was quoted as confirming it was Jason while doing a tour of the set. And if Jason is here, they wouldn't have him be the first and only Robin, so that means Dick was around. If they were planning on the dead Robin being Dick at any point, they sure as Hell aren't now with the fallout from BvS's dark tone, along with giving Johns more power.

Article about the tour guide: http://batman-news.com/2016/05/21/de...an-jason-todd/

Hh. Interesting

[Spencermalley935]

I think they're both enjoyable, entertaining serviceable films. They're just not the best Batman movies, not when compared to the animated stuff or The Dark Knight Trilogy.

[electr1cgoblin]

Not really much of a fan. I thought they were poorly paced, and really lacking heart in many ways. I just never bought Keaton as Wayne or particularly, as Batman.

I'm not saying there weren't good things about them (the rose laying scene in the first one was nice, for instance) but overall, just never felt they captured the Batman I had read about and enjoyed.

[sunofdarkchild]

There are individual scenes that work great, and the music is amazing, but the plots are nonexistent, Batman/Bruce has no arc or development, and there are more individual scenes that are cringeworthy than scenes that are great.

Getting the soundtrack really is getting the full experience without missing much.

[Mister BoMan]

Loved these movies. I liked Batman 89 more than Returns, but both were great. Keaton was awesome as Batman/Bruce Wayne. Jack Nicholson was great as The Joker ( although I did not like it that he took Joe Chill's place as The Wayne's killer). But 89 having that retro look, Anton Furst's Gotham along with the Batmobile and Batwing, and Danny Elfman's music was all great.
Batman Returns was all Tim Burton. Penguin was good, seemed to be more like Killer Croc, but Michelle Pfieffer was great as Catwoman. I liked Keaton's Bat suit more in this one.

The Batman 89 movie though holds a special place in my nostalgic heart.

[Lightning Rider]

Definitely agree that Burton's Gotham had the best feel. The continuity changes did bother me but not enough to ruin my enjoyment. I've seen Returns a lot more times, but I really like the feel of that film. Penguin is a bit overdone but he's more compelling than just an awkward gangster. Selina's psychotic nature was also compelling.

Also when Bruce goes crazy after using monologue to get into Joker's head>>>>



Don't see that often enough.