What do you think of the Burton/Keaton films?

[Jokerz]

I've noticed the two Tim Burton/Michael Keaton films seem to be rarely discussed by Batfans, either in a positive or negative sense. I was just wondering what your opinion of these two films is.

I love the 1989 film. It was one of my earliest exposures to Batman, and Batman:The Animated Series owes a large debt to this film. Nicholson's Joker was excellent, Keaton was great as both Wayne and Batman, and I loved his Joker's taste for over-the-top theatrics in comparison to Heath Ledger's Joker's more grounded terrorism. My only criticism is I didn't like how spoilers:

Joker killed Wayne's parents. A big part of Batman's origin to me is that his parent's killer was just "some punk with a gun", rather than a criminal mastermind.

end of spoilers

I didn't quite like Batman Returns as much, but I still greatly enjoyed it. Pfeiffer's portrayal of Catwoman is pretty much perfect - I still think she slightly edges out Anne Hathaway's - and Devito was excellent as the Penguin as well. My only criticisms are spoilers:

Penguin's origin could have used more development, and his death was a bit anti-climactic. I also didn't like how Batman seemingly casually killed some of Penguin's mooks. Yea, firm believer in Batman-never-kills.

end of spoilers

So what do you think of these two seemingly-mostly-forgotten Batman films?

[AcesX1X]

love them both.

i actually watch batman returns every christmas. it's sort of a tradition in my household.

[millernumber1]

I feel like in comics fandom, they're not quite as popular/loved, though I do find many people who still love them. They definitely still have a huge outside-of-comics impact, though. For me, the Nolan films (particularly Begins) are the Batman I like seeing best (though I miss the Batfamily), but there's a distinct sensibility and philosophy that attracts many people I discuss them with to the Burton films.

For myself, I really didn't enjoy them. Batman not only went around killing people, and his villains were clearly more interesting to Burton than Batman himself, but he just wasn't cool. Getting beat up by common thugs, and finding himself in really stupid situations, I had no desire to be Batman or be inspired by Batman.

[batnbreakfast]

After watching The Killing Joke (TKJ was supposedly why Burton said yes to directing the 1989 flick) movie again today, I realized how much the Joker turning up in Vicky's apartement mirrors Joker visiting Babs in the graphic novel.

After all those years I still like Burton's Batflicks mostly for nostalgic reasons.

[Jadeb]

I dig them. They're flawed but enjoyable, and they're very much the work of a director with a singular vision. Considering what a major studio production they were, it's kind of amazing they're as weird and Burton-esque as they are. Good match for director and material. And Keaton was terrific. He doesn't get much to do, but I love how he does it. His Bruce Wayne seems quietly crazy -- even crazier than Nicholson's rather pedestrian Joker, which makes a sort of twisted sense. We're lucky to have gotten such a quirky interpretation, a Batman who doesn't look the part and seems less angry than broken beyond normal social functioning. He really seems like the sort of weirdo who would think dressing up as a bat is a sensible idea. Even Affleck's turn seems rather predictable in comparison.

I actually prefer Returns to the first one. I dislike some of Burton's artistic choices in the sequel -- making the Penguin so dirty haunts the character to this day -- but it's just so much fun.

[Maxpower00044]

Great Movies. They're not perfect and take some liberties that I'm not a fan of (like Jack being the Wayne Killers and Batman's willingness to drop TNT in a thugs shorts), but 89 is what made me a batman fan, so there's that.

Not as good as the Nolan movies, but leaps and bounds better than the BvS garbage.

[JBatmanFan05]

Loved them when I was kid, they and the 60s show on Family Channel got me into Batman, but now I just like the gothic aesthetics and the music (but I don't much like the Nolan films either). Comic Batman and his world are much better.

Mask of the Phantasm blows both Burton films out of the water in terms of quality and accuracy and poignancy.

[SicariiDC]

Great Movies. They're not perfect and take some liberties that I'm not a fan of (like Jack being the Wayne Killers and Batman's willingness to drop TNT in a thugs shorts), but 89 is what made me a batman fan, so there's that.

Not as good as the Nolan movies, but leaps and bounds better than the BvS garbage.

This. And something I've noticed is people who aren't into comics or have left them in their youth still champion the Burton movies. Just today an old friend sent me a joker scene on messenger.

And some of the dialogue in returns is hilarious
Penguin: "I believe the word your looking for is...Aaaarghhaaaaa"

Idk lol I love them shits

[Mace Dolex]

I love them warts and all, when I watch them it brings back all the memories and excitement of the hype leading up to the first film.

[Atlanta96]

I like them. Pretty much everyone agrees that the story and characters have some pretty big issues (especially Returns), but the atmosphere and visuals of those films captures the feel of a good Batman story in a way no other adaptation has. Keaton's Batman has a lot of presence, Nicholsons Joker is memorable, and Pfeiffers Catwoman is beyond badass. They're definitely worth watching, even if they have some surprisingly stupid moments (Batman set that one guy on freaking fire!).

[ABH]

I loved them as a kid, but I went through a phase a few years back where I didn't really care for them any more. I've since come around on them again, especially '89 BATMAN.

I still don't care for Jack Napier taking Joe Chill's place, just to make the story more personal, but beyond that I accept it for what it is. Burton's Batman really feels like the '39 Batman, who will straight up kill you, if he needs to. Keaton looked great in the Bat-suit, but he didn't do enough as Bruce or Batman to really, really get into his head, which is why I still prefer Bale's Batman (minus the growl).

Burton's Penguin is far from my favorite (and I still don't like that that visage informed the look of BTAS Penguin), but DeVito was great as that version of the character.

[Drz]

Love them.

[Dr Quinch]

I still think the 1989 movie is the definitive depiction of Gotham on film. The crazy gothic set design, the retro styled clothing, the oppressive film noir atmosphere...

It's what I picture in my head when I hear the words "Gotham City" and something I missed in the Nolan films, which could just as easily have been set in New York or Chicago.

I'm also a fan of Keaton's twitchy Bruce Wayne performance, although I found his Batman less convincing.

[ispacehead]

The first one was at least a good film, if not a great Batman film. (At least I thought it was okay 27 years ago....)

The second one is just atrociously bad to this day.

[suemorphplus209]

Pretty much a 50th Anniversary film (1939-1989). Like 1939, Batman killed people. Plus, I will always remember Michael Keaton's introductory lines.

Punk: Don't kill me man, don't kill me, don't kill me man!

Batman: I'm not going to kill you. I want you to do me a favor. I want you to tell all your friends about me.

Punk: What are you?

Batman: (IMO the first and most badass delivery of this line) I'm Batman (tosses mugger aside and disappears)



I also loved the Joker in that one, even though the guy was murdering who knows how many people, it made me laugh.