What do you think of the Burton/Keaton films?

[Agent Z]

That's not Bruce Wayne, that's Batman. Totally different in how he deals with those around him.

They're literally the same guy though.

[Flash Gordon]

They're literally the same guy though.

No, 'Bruce Wayne' is an act. 'Batman' is a masked crime fighter.

They are very different.

[SiegePerilous02]

They're literally the same guy though.

The public Bruce Wayne persona is the vapid playboy, while Batman is the grim avenger of the night. Both are acts put on by the real Bruce, who is somewhere in between and only lets the likes of Alfred, Dick and Clark see it.

With Keaton, it did seem like we got a Bruce who was more himself around the likes of Alfred, Vicki and Selina, and he of course nailed the Batman stuff, but we didn't get any of the Bruce Wayne act. Bale and Affleck were much better in that regard, though I think Keaton could have nailed it if Burton was interested in pursuing it.

[Agent Z]

No, 'Bruce Wayne' is an act. 'Batman' is a masked crime fighter.

They are very different.

Yeah, I've never taken this seriously at all.

[Carabas]

They're literally the same guy though.

I have personally never bought into the whole "Batman is real, Bruce Wayne is just a mask" business.
To me you have the 'real' Bruce Wayne, and Batman and the public celebrity playboy Bruce Wayne are both masks (and the jerk who treats everybody like crap is yet another mask per Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker's run).

Burton-Bats is all Batman, all the time, no masks ever.

[SicariiDC]

No, 'Bruce Wayne' is an act. 'Batman' is a masked crime fighter.

They are very different.

In the new Batman Unlimited flick (which is quite good) Bruce and Damian are talking in the bat mobile...
Bruce: we have to put on our costumes
Damian: but we're...in our costumes
Bruce: No, these are our uniforms
Damian: so what's our costumes
(Cuts to them in tuxes at some gala ball)

I just love how he says that part.

[SicariiDC]

I love them. They are probably still my favorite Bat-films, along with BATMAN 1966. I'll never forget the exciting and excruciating anticipation for the 1989 film, and my joy at the sense of "They're getting it right!" when I saw the opening rooftop scene! It's funny--these movies seem so intimate and quaint when compared with the epics they make now! It's a fun and interesting road from BATMAN 89 to BATMAN V. SUPERMAN. I still cherish a secret wish that Keaton will return as Batman in a straight adaptation of THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.

That would be fucking amazing.

[Bergman]

I like them.

[phantom1592]

I have personally never bought into the whole "Batman is real, Bruce Wayne is just a mask" business.
To me you have the 'real' Bruce Wayne, and Batman and the public celebrity playboy Bruce Wayne are both masks (and the jerk who treats everybody like crap is yet another mask per Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker's run).

Burton-Bats is all Batman, all the time, no masks ever.

I see the Wayne persona in the first one. Especially at the charity ball he threw in the beginning. He was kind of witty, a little clueless, generally amiable. Joked with knox... poorly. (not knowing how much champagne to open, telling Alfred to get him a grant... He was whatever the person he was talking to needed him to be. The bruce wayne at that party was certainly not 'Batman'.

The public Bruce Wayne persona is the vapid playboy, while Batman is the grim avenger of the night. Both are acts put on by the real Bruce, who is somewhere in between and only lets the likes of Alfred, Dick and Clark see it.

With Keaton, it did seem like we got a Bruce who was more himself around the likes of Alfred, Vicki and Selina, and he of course nailed the Batman stuff, but we didn't get any of the Bruce Wayne act. Bale and Affleck were much better in that regard, though I think Keaton could have nailed it if Burton was interested in pursuing it.

This is why I loved that first one. The 'REAL' Bruce Wayne was the man in the cave in a turtleneck going over police files with his glasses on. No public charade... no intimidating costume or deep voice. Just the detective going to work, deciphering clues and chatting with Alfred.

Batman needs that 'middle ground' to be a believable character. Angry violent Batgod can't be the 'real' Wayne. Wearing a scary costume to scare criminals?? Tactically sound. Wearing a scary costume in your basement growling at your kids and butler?? That's just crazy.

[SicariiDC]

I see the Wayne persona in the first one. Especially at the charity ball he threw in the beginning. He was kind of witty, a little clueless, generally amiable. Joked with knox... poorly. (not knowing how much champagne to open, telling Alfred to get him a grant... He was whatever the person he was talking to needed him to be. The bruce wayne at that party was certainly not 'Batman'.



This is why I loved that first one. The 'REAL' Bruce Wayne was the man in the cave in a turtleneck going over police files with his glasses on. No public charade... no intimidating costume or deep voice. Just the detective going to work, deciphering clues and chatting with Alfred.

Batman needs that 'middle ground' to be a believable character. Angry violent Batgod can't be the 'real' Wayne. Wearing a scary costume to scare criminals?? Tactically sound. Wearing a scary costume in your basement growling at your kids and butler?? That's just crazy.

Your right on both counts.

[dancj]

I still cherish a secret wish that Keaton will return as Batman in a straight adaptation of THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.

I think to pull that off with Batman as an older man you're going to need someone seriously physically imposing. IMO, Ben Affleck is the only person so far with the required size to manage it.

[SicariiDC]

I think to pull that off with Batman as an older man you're going to need someone seriously physically imposing. IMO, Ben Affleck is the only person so far with the required size to manage it.

Yeah, perhaps. Affleck's suit and stuff def seems more stocky like DKR but I think the wish is about Keaton being the one who returns. At least to me.

[Mia]

I remember when I sat to down to watch Batman for the second time a year later on the vcr. I laughed through all of it because it just came across as silly. That opinion holds. Micheal Keaton is too much of a mouse of a man to be a believable Batman/Bruce Wayne. He has no gravitas and does not ooze testosterone. Keaton would have been a better Alfred than Batman. Further I don't think that the art deco theme or whatever it is that Burton was doing holds up anymore.

[Osiris-Rex]

Both were good. I know a lot of people think Nicholson's Joker is the best live action one ever. I used to think the same, but now whenever I watch Batman 1989, I don't see Joker. I just see Nicholson in white makeup. I mean that's how he laughs in all of his movies. And even though I liked Returns, it really felt more like a Burton movie than a Batman film. Most likely because Burton had more control over that one.

My flaws with the films however is as previously mentioned, these films seemed to focus more on the villains than Batman himself. And Commissioner Gordon never had that big of a role. Especially in Returns where he had only like three or four lines.

Even Pat Hingle said he had no idea why Commissioner Gordon was in Batman Returns. It was just because Tim Burton wanted him in it.

[TomServofan]

Great movies! i saw 89 Batman in theaters when i was 8 4 times and had merchandise! i was originally a Swamp Thing and Superman kid in terms of DC comics as the Swamp Thing movie in 1986 on cable made me a fan of him as i bought comics and Superman comics and i became a batman fan thanks to this movie and watched reruns of the show from the 60s in 89 to 91 and taped every episode plus bought comics.

I saw Batman Returns 4 times in theaters when i was 11 and had merchandise too! i ate the cereal and all that plus got the movie on VHS for christmas that year as well.

And face it, without the Burton films there'd be no mainstream success for the character (outside of Dark Knight Returns and Year One at the time) and there be no animated show.