Wonder Woman should be better at fighting than Batman?

[darkseidpwns]

Evidence? What evidence? That DC writers and Editors don't want to promote Wonder Woman? Yeah, I accept that evidence without the slightest argument.

Evidence that Batman's rogues have a handful of combat feats that you think are somehow proof that Batman routinely fights opponents who are vastly more skilled than Wonder Woman? Sorry. I've seen Penguin run away from Batman or roll over and show throat to him at the first hint of hostility far more times than I've seen him do anything that would be called "brave" or "skilled." Same with Crane. I've seen him be all kinds of scary with his fear gas, but the minute that's taken away, he's nothing. And even in those scenes when he does fight effectively? It's still clear that Batman's superior to him in every way. Hardly a worthy challenge for the Combat God of the DCU.

Meanwhile, I just provided proof that one of the people who trained Diana to fight also managed to defeat a powerful foe while possessing no powers of her own, and you dismiss this as any proof that Wonder Woman is even near Batman's level.

Glad we're getting on, yeah if the universe promotes Batman's skill more then it's pretty evident that his skill is greater, that's how it works.
Still waiting for you to provide skill feats for Psycho at least Pengy and Crane have some and they are bottom tier among Batman rogues in combat. Read Detective Comics #935-936 if you think Crane is nothing without his toxin, his skill set extends to hypnosis, combat arts and psychological manipulation. Still I do find it amusing and satisfying that we're actually debating Scarecrow and Penguin, the ladder to Shiva is going to a very long one indeed, though I doubt we'll even pass Cavalier.

You posted nothing, Diana didn't beat Hercules with skill, Batman did beat Grundy with skill. It's Batman vs Diana not Batman vs Hippolyta, besides you actually need to show me these scans so that I can examine whether she's actually using skill or merely bashing his skull with Zeus's hammer or something while he's all tied up with the Lasso of Truth.

[Majesty]

Total domination, as I recall. Though, in fairness, she still had all her powers in that scene.

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Pretty much how it should go, if they're all trying to physically fight her.

[Darius]

Glad we're getting on, yeah if the universe promotes Batman's skill more then it's pretty evident that his skill is greater, that's how it works.
Still waiting for you to provide skill feats for Psycho at least Pengy and Crane have some and they are bottom tier among Batman rogues in combat. Read Detective Comics #935-936 if you think Crane is nothing without his toxin, his skill set extends to hypnosis, combat arts and psychological manipulation. Still I do find it amusing and satisfying that we're actually debating Scarecrow and Penguin, the ladder to Shiva is going to a very long one indeed, though I doubt we'll even pass Cavalier.

You posted nothing, Diana didn't beat Hercules with skill, Batman did beat Grundy with skill. It's Batman vs Diana not Batman vs Hippolyta, besides you actually need to show me these scans so that I can examine whether she's actually using skill or merely bashing his skull with Zeus's hammer or something while he's all tied up with the Lasso of Truth.

That's a really flawed premise actually. All you have said is that Batman has more promotion. That says nothing of his actual skill in relation to her. It's like saying because Tom Cruise has more box office revenue than Meryl Streep he is the superior actor.

The Amazon's have always been about perfecting skills ... it's at the core of their conception and exists in every continuity to some degree. Look at the idea behind Bullets and Bracelets. This wasn't intended to be a showcase for a lack of bullet proof skin, it was a way for Marston to make WW effectively bulletproof through skill rather than brawn. Another example is the Lasso, a weapon ONLY someone with great skill can wield. The invisible plane was created to give WW the ability to fly in a way that showcased how innovative and skilled Amazon culture had become. Hippolyta actually lost to Heracles while she had her magic girder which provided her great strength, yet was able to defeat him and his allies without it because she relied on her abilities NOT brute strength.

[Stanlos]

That's a really flawed premise actually. All you have said is that Batman has more promotion. That says nothing of his actual skill in relation to her. It's like saying because Tom Cruise has more box office revenue than Meryl Streep he is the superior actor.

The Amazon's have always been about perfecting skills ... it's at the core of their conception and exists in every continuity to some degree. Look at the idea behind Bullets and Bracelets. This wasn't intended to be a showcase for a lack of bullet proof skin, it was a way for Marston to make WW effectively bulletproof through skill rather than brawn. Another example is the Lasso, a weapon ONLY someone with great skill can wield. The invisible plane was created to give WW the ability to fly in a way that showcased how innovative and skilled Amazon culture had become. Hippolyta actually lost to Heracles while she had her magic girder which provided her great strength, yet was able to defeat him and his allies without it because she relied on her abilities NOT brute strength.

Darius has really said it all here. Their culture and the peculiar properties of the old Themyscira itself equals a LOLchasm between the skills of pretty much any of the Amazons and mortal practitioners. I know people have in the past discounted Thor (wrongly) by characterizing his training as "Swing! Swing harder! YES!" but you won't be able to do that with Wonder Woman. Hera, at one point her Amazon training was the source of her powers. Post Crisis, things like the Choosing Ceremony and the Amazons approach to competition (why hasn't Kurt done a Wondy run lately?) combined with the way time works on the island compared to the mortal plane compounded with their access to Gods and Goddesses of various pantheons really makes it a non-conversation.

[phonogram12]

Honestly, I think Diana's probably the undisputed master of the Amazonian fighting skills she was born and raised with and without question the most skilled superpowered hero in the DCU. In fact, I'd really like to see how she'd do in a fight against Darkseid since he's supposedly the baddest of the bad (if this took place in the recent Darkseid War story in JL, I missed it).

That said, at least pre-52, I have to give pure fighting skills to guys like Richard Dragon, Lady Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Cassandra Cain, and (yes) Batman. These are the guys constantly referenced as the most skilled. As someone else already mentioned, Lady Shiva only seeks out the best to test her skills against and Richard Dragon even had to fake paralysis just to keep people from challenging him all the time. Cassandra Cain has been shown to match Shiva and Batman has mastered most any style the Earth has had to offer in an effort to be the best crimefighter in the world.

Do I think Batman's the most skilled fighter? No, I honestly think those four top him. But just the sheer volume of the skills he's picked up kinda ups his game a little bit more. On an even playing field where her powers were removed and he had none of his tools, I think it would be a tough battle, but in the end, I think he would edge her out.

[Tayswift]

Without powers they're pretty even with a slight edge to Diana. With powers she will win 99.99% of the time.

There's a reason they often used to spar without using their powers and question ways of countering each other, and learning from each other, it's a warriors mindset they both have.

But usually in throwdowns such as when Bruce is very headstrong and Diana has to put him in his place, she'll be able to.

What Diana needs above everything else is consistency to her character and powers. At least as a baseline.

5 years ago you could ask 100 people if she was bulletproof or not and you'd likely get a variety of different answers. Cause there was no truly consistent answer.

But as it stands, it should be very simple, Batman vs Diana without powers, and no gadgets, slight edge to Diana, Batman vs Diana without powers and WITH gadgets, Batman has the edge, Batman vs Diana with powers, Diana wins, Batman vs Diana with powers AND gadgets, Diana has the edge but is surprised by a couple of things but iultimately wins.

this is Fair enough

Yes there are better fighters than Batman out there and some of them are even women, therefore it does nothing for Diana or her cause to be better than Batman especially if her stories dont even have the capacity to support that status. Now becoming stronger than Superman however, that would actually be a landmark and such a status can easily be supported by her stories. However Superman as another user put it is "alien" or simply "Superman" therefore his status is untouchable while Batman is a human so he's easy pickings .

exactly. quite telling that the powerful poll "yes" option is not winning and "no" is far stronger. Now this one that doesn't matter at all, "yes' is winning.
I don't really understand it.

[Stanlos]

Honestly, I think Diana's probably the undisputed master of the Amazonian fighting skills she was born and raised with and without question the most skilled superpowered hero in the DCU. In fact, I'd really like to see how she'd do in a fight against Darkseid since he's supposedly the baddest of the bad (if this took place in the recent Darkseid War story in JL, I missed it).

That said, at least pre-52, I have to give pure fighting skills to guys like Richard Dragon, Lady Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Cassandra Cain, and (yes) Batman. These are the guys constantly referenced as the most skilled. As someone else already mentioned, Lady Shiva only seeks out the best to test her skills against and Richard Dragon even had to fake paralysis just to keep people from challenging him all the time. Cassandra Cain has been shown to match Shiva and Batman has mastered most any style the Earth has had to offer in an effort to be the best crimefighter in the world.

Do I think Batman's the most skilled fighter? No, I honestly think those four top him. But just the sheer volume of the skills he's picked up kinda ups his game a little bit more. On an even playing field where her powers were removed and he had none of his tools, I think it would be a tough battle, but in the end, I think he would edge her out.

Among the mortal street level fighters you would place Bats above Shiva, Dragon, and Cassie Cain?

As to all of them in general, all of the factors that contribute to the makings of a great fighter--that make Batman a great fighter--such as the bolded text you point out the Amazons and others like them have in far greater supply. In terms of time devoted, number of style/skills, and versatility the Amazons are orders of magnitude beyond the mortal practitioners.

Or they WERE. The new 52 was very short lived and IMO reduced almost all of WW's characteristics and certainly diminished the Amazons. I think for those, your argument could stand. But the Post Crisis iteration through Rucka? That would be a No.

Time? Byrne's run provided a definitive conversion for time on the island. A moment on Themyscira is like milennia on the mortal plane.

Styles? There were 5,000 Amazons each of whom had their own fighting style. Each summer during the Choosing Ceremony the Amazons select a battle sister to shadow for a year during which they teach each other. And they have been doing this for milennia. As has been true even Pre-Crisis, the Amazons are always pursuing excellence and developing new styles and the development of such is a structured rigorous part of their culture.

Senseis? Diana has access to and is known to the Gods of many pantheons and the Amazons are known to the pantheons to be the best. She has access to and has studied under the Gods whose domain is fighting. She also has had the tutelage of the aforementioned 5000 Amazons.

Powerless and with skills only, Diana has defeated a full fledged divinity as with the Roman Goddess Diana during the Simonson arc. If you bring up things like time practiced, experience, senseis, and number of styles mastered, there is no contest versus beings like Diana. It is not as severe with Orion and Barda but only because in their mythologies the passage of time is the same as on the mortal plane which makes sense since they are in most interps aliens but very long-lived ones (centuries longer practice time).

[theoneandonly]

Total domination, as I recall. Though, in fairness, she still had all her powers in that scene.

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thanks for the scans. it shows you should not kick a wonder woman when she is down as she kicks back harder! jokes apart this kind of reminds me of daredevil who also took out the Avengers team when he was suffering from a grave injury. where is the rest? did she take batman or vice versa or did he just stop the exercise though given the conversation I don't see that happening

[Lax]

Superhuman powers and fantastic paraphernalia aside, Wonder Woman has often been said to be the "best pure fighter" on the classic Justice League line-up, which conflicts with Batman's oft-cited status as the "greatest martial artist" among DC's major heroes.

On the one hand, Wonder Woman is said to have hundreds (if not thousands) of years of martial training (depending on the continuity of what her age actually is) on Themyscria, whereas Batman is said to have mastered over 100 different martial arts in his mortal lifetime.

So should Wonder Woman be better, worse or equal to Batman in fighting prowess / martial artistry? With and/or without melee weapons?

There is a big difference between powerless Wonder Woman vs Batman and Wonder Woman vs Batman with Wonder Woman’s powers. Wonder Woman has had superpowers for the vast majority of her fighting history while Batman has been powerless for the vast majority of his fighting history. Therefore Wonder Woman has adjustments to make during this scenario that Batman does not.

Her reflexes are slower, her muscles are weaker, her body is more delicate and she’s lost the mobility of flight. These adjustments will have a negative effect on the speed of her decision making in combat. Where before she could hit a boulder with a missed punch and not worry about breaking her hand, now she has to consider such a possibility. Where before she didn’t have to worry about center of gravity because of flight, now leverage and footwork are important. Combine these factors with the natural strength advantage men have over women… Batman should win majority of the time

Her combat instincts are based on her capabilities, if her capabilities are limited then the instincts based on them suddenly become counter-productive. To use an analogy, I’d be like Batman with one arm vs a master fighter who’s spent the majority of his history fighting with one hand. Batman would be bothered by the constant urge to use a second arm which he no longer has access to.

[Carabas]

There is a big difference between powerless Wonder Woman vs Batman and Wonder Woman vs Batman with Wonder Woman’s powers. Wonder Woman has had superpowers for the vast majority of her fighting history while Batman has been powerless for the vast majority of his fighting history. Therefore Wonder Woman has adjustments to make during this scenario that Batman does not.

Nonsens. She fights opponents who are physically superior all the time.

Her reflexes are slower, her muscles are weaker,

She has been depowered before, this has generally not had any effect on her ability to block bullets with her bracelets. Also, none of her powers give her faster reflexes anyway.

her body is more delicate and she’s lost the mobility of flight.

She generally likes to fight with her two feet on the ground, flight capability or not.

These adjustments will have a negative effect on the speed of her decision making in combat. Where before she could hit a boulder with a missed punch and not worry about breaking her hand, now she has to consider such a possibility. Where before she didn’t have to worry about center of gravity because of flight, now leverage and footwork are important.

How on earth hasn't she had to worry about her center of gravity before? It's not like she goes everywhere floating a few inches above the ground.

Combine these factors with the natural strength advantage men have over women…

This is not a thing that exists in superhero universes. Also, Diana without powers is still taller than Batman, has better reach, millenia more fighting experience, definitely faster, built like a brick house, and likely stronger than Batman too.

[Lax]

Nonsens. She fights opponents who are physically superior all the time.

As has Batman, that is not a factor that separates the two in this scenario. What separates them is that Batman is in a state that he is used to fighting in while Wonder Woman is not.

She has been depowered before, this has generally not had any effect on her ability to block bullets with her bracelets. Also, none of her powers give her faster reflexes anyway.

Are you arguing that a powerless version of Wonder Woman is as fast as the standard version?

She has super-speed, part of super-speed is reflexes, losing those reflexes will be an adjustment for her. In terms of reflexes aim blocking isn't more impressive than aim dodging and Batman aim dodges gunfire quite frequently, unlike Wonder Woman he's powerless 24/7.

She generally likes to fight with her two feet on the ground, flight capability or not.

For her it's merely a preference, as oppose to Batman who must constantly use his legs to support himself and who's combat instincts and experience revolve around that necessity.

That is a massive concern for Batman that Wonder Woman ordinarily doesn't have to deal with. If someone tries to trip or judo toss her it wouldn't matter because she can just ignore gravity on a whim.

How on earth hasn't she had to worry about her center of gravity before? It's not like she goes everywhere floating a few inches above the ground.

She can use the power in all sorts of ways, it's not limited to being off the ground, she could use it to seemingly stay rooted to the ground, or walk/stand on a wall/ceiling, or walk/stand on top of water.

That writers are willing to ignore or her downplay her abilities doesn't mean I should during my analysis. Both characters are supposed to be intelligent and experienced with their abilities, thus, I treat them both as if they're intelligent and experienced with their abilities.

The ramifications of this means that Wonder Woman must adjust or ignore her usual combat instincts while Batman does not.

This is not a thing that exists in superhero universes. Also, Diana without powers is still taller than Batman, has better reach, millenia more fighting experience, definitely faster, built like a brick house, and likely stronger than Batman too.

That male characters are typically larger and more muscular than their female counterparts is enough evidence that sexual dimorphism exists in superhero universes. I would assume their universe is like ours unless stated otherwise, meaning a separation of male and female boxing, MMA, basketball, etc.

According to google Batman is 6'2, Wonder Woman is either 5'11 or 6'0 depending on the source, meaning Batman is taller. In terms of physique Batman is typically portrayed as larger and more muscular, thus, he should be stronger than a powerless version of Wonder Woman.

[Carabas]

As has Batman, that is not a factor that separates the two in this scenario. What separates them is that Batman is in a state that he is used to fighting in while Wonder Woman is not.

I'm not seeing how it matters. I'm also not seeing how it's a state Diana is not used to, depending on which version we're using. She wasn't born with powers...

Are you arguing that a powerless version of Wonder Woman is as fast as the standard version?

She has super-speed, part of super-speed is reflexes, losing those reflexes will be an adjustment for her. In terms of reflexes aim blocking isn't more impressive than aim dodging and Batman aim dodges gunfire quite frequently, unlike Wonder Woman he's powerless 24/7.

Non-powered Wonder Woman is still a bullet-timer, who can block shots she wasn't aware off untim after they were fired. And so are plenty of other so-called unpowered regular humans in superhero universes.

And no, reflexes are not an intrinsical part of superspeed. Plenty of characters have one without the other. She was able to do the bullets&bracelets thing before she ever got powers.

For her it's merely a preference, as oppose to Batman who must constantly use his legs to support himself and who's combat instincts and experience revolve around that necessity.

If it's her preference then it is by definition a form of combat she is better at than airborne.

That is a massive concern for Batman that Wonder Woman ordinarily doesn't have to deal with. If someone tries to trip or judo toss her it wouldn't matter because she can just ignore gravity on a whim.

Which she never does in the comics.

She can use the power in all sorts of ways, it's not limited to being off the ground, she could use it to seemingly stay rooted to the ground, or walk/stand on a wall/ceiling, or walk/stand on top of water.

Which probably no character ever has done. You're making htings up now.

That writers are willing to ignore or her downplay her abilities doesn't mean I should during my analysis. Both characters are supposed to be intelligent and experienced with their abilities, thus, I treat them both as if they're intelligent and experienced with their abilities.

Nono, you're only treating Batman as intelligent and experienced.

The ramifications of this means that Wonder Woman must adjust or ignore her usual combat instincts while Batman does not.

Based on your posting I'm thinking you don't have the foggiest notion about Diana's usual combat instincts.

That male characters are typically larger and more muscular than their female counterparts is enough evidence that sexual dimorphism exists in superhero universes. I would assume their universe is like ours unless stated otherwise, meaning a separation of male and female boxing, MMA, basketball, etc.

The best fighters of any gender in the DCU are two tiny Asian women. I rest my case. The biggest badest MMA goof isn't even laying a finger on Lady Shiva or Cassandra Cain.

And of course in our reality, the kind of stuff that lets a smaller, more agile martial artist win this kind of crap is generally against the rules, which favour men.

According to google Batman is 6'2, Wonder Woman is either 5'11 or 6'0 depending on the source, meaning Batman is taller. In terms of physique Batman is typically portrayed as larger and more muscular, thus, he should be stronger than a powerless version of Wonder Woman.

Your google-fu is not up to date.
As of Rebirth she's 6'2" and taller than Bats and Supes.

[Lax]

I'm not seeing how it matters. I'm also not seeing how it's a state Diana is not used to, depending on which version we're using. She wasn't born with powers...

It matters because one character has adjustments to make in her way of thinking while the other does not. If the scenario were Batman with Wonder Woman’s powers then he’d be the one who’d have to alter his way of thinking, but that’s not this scenario.

Non-powered Wonder Woman is still a bullet-timer, who can block shots she wasn't aware off untim after they were fired. And so are plenty of other so-called unpowered regular humans in superhero universes.

I’d like to see scans of that. If so, then she blitzes Batman and the rest of the factors I've mentioned are pretty much moot. He can't react.

And no, reflexes are not an intrinsical part of superspeed. Plenty of characters have one without the other. She was able to do the bullets&bracelets thing before she ever got powers.

One can’t control their own speed without the reflexes to go with it. Unless she’s running into walls or tripping over her own feet she’s got the reflexes.

If it's her preference then it is by definition a form of combat she is better at than airborne.

It’s the writers low balling her intelligence. She “forgets” she can fly against ground opponents the same way she “forgets” she has super-speed against those who are slow. I say “preference” because she can choose between the ground and the air, Batman can’t and that limitation will force his way of thinking to be more specialized.

A master kick boxer vs a master boxer fighting by boxing rules will be to the advantage of the pure boxer because kicking is no longer allowed.
That’s what this scenario does from Wonder Woman’s perspective.

Which she never does in the comics.

Wonder Woman is capable of flight and she has a lot of experience using the power. The only factor that would allow her to fall when she doesn’t want to is a lack of intelligence on her part. As intelligence is supposed to be one of her traits a judo toss shouldn’t work on her.

The ramifications of your argument is that she’s not bright enough to do this, I don’t work under that assumption.

Which probably no character ever has done. You're making htings up now.

This entire fight is made up. I’ve never seen Wonder Woman eat a Big Mac at super-speed while flying upside down as far as it goes.
But I do know she has experience with eating food, super-speed and flight. Therefore, if it were ever important to eat a Big Mac at super-speed while flying upside down she would.

Nono, you're only treating Batman as intelligent and experienced.

I’m treating them both as if they’re masters of their own abilities, with years of experience behind it. But the abilities of one is handicapped by this scenario while the ability of the other is not, that’s a significant factor.

Based on your posting I'm thinking you don't have the foggiest notion about Diana's usual combat instincts.

Her life depends on the proficiency and experience she has with her powers, therefore I post as if she is proficient and experienced with her powers devoid of any writer’s need to handicap her for the sake of plot. Be that speed, intelligence, strength, size, durability or whatever other factor.

I understand why writers handicap her, she’s too powerful for a lot of her opponents in various ways, but that is not relevant to my analysis of this battle with Batman.

The best fighters of any gender in the DCU are two tiny Asian women. I rest my case. The biggest badest MMA goof isn't even laying a finger on Lady Shiva or Cassandra Cain.

That’s like saying Cassandra is a teenager, Shiva is an adult, therefore adults in general aren’t stronger than teenagers.

I didn’t bring up MMA because I thought a random member could beat Lady Shiva, I brought it up because if they separate the sexes and weight classes just as they would in the real world then it’s reasonable to assume they do so based on the same logic. Thus, sexual dimorphism and size both exists and is a significant enough factor to separate them in the first place.

And of course in our reality, the kind of stuff that lets a smaller, more agile martial artist win this kind of crap is generally against the rules, which favour men.

If we changed those rules and then ignored factors such as sex or weight or age in the MMA the results would stay roughly competitive?

Your google-fu is not up to date.
As of Rebirth she's 6'2" and taller than Bats and Supes.

Such a correction would imply that size is significant.

Is size significant for height and reach but not muscle mass and strength?

[Carabas]

It matters because one character has adjustments to make in her way of thinking while the other does not. If the scenario were Batman with Wonder Woman’s powers then he’d be the one who’d have to alter his way of thinking, but that’s not this scenario.

Superheroes tend to get used to these kinds of things in thow or three seconds flat.

I’d like to see scans of that. If so, then she blitzes Batman and the rest of the factors I've mentioned are pretty much moot. He can't react.

And I'd sure like to have the time to go hunting through hundreds of comics and make some scans of them. We can't always have what we want.

One can’t control their own speed without the reflexes to go with it. Unless she’s running into walls or tripping over her own feet she’s got the reflexes.

Sigh... I meant plenty of characters have enhanced reflexes without having the slightest bit of superspeed. And actually, yes, a bunch of speedsters are not particularily known for their super reflexes, but still manage to somehow not run into walls.
It's comics. These things happen. Sense is not something that is very common in superhero universes.

It’s the writers low balling her intelligence. She “forgets” she can fly against ground opponents the same way she “forgets” she has super-speed against those who are slow. I say “preference” because she can choose between the ground and the air, Batman can’t and that limitation will force his way of thinking to be more specialized.

You want to punch somebody hard, you need momentum and gravity. You know what you don't have when you're just hovering there? Go on, guess.

A master kick boxer vs a master boxer fighting by boxing rules will be to the advantage of the pure boxer because kicking is no longer allowed.
That’s what this scenario does from Wonder Woman’s perspective.

Superhero universe. Does not apply. All forms of martial arts are pretty much equal (except for the ones only Karate Kid uses that let him judo-throw planets of whatnot).

Wonder Woman is capable of flight and she has a lot of experience using the power. The only factor that would allow her to fall when she doesn’t want to is a lack of intelligence on her part. As intelligence is supposed to be one of her traits a judo toss shouldn’t work on her.

And she has massively more experiece (like, millenia of it) of being bound by gravity like everybody else.

This entire fight is made up.

No, really?

I’ve never seen Wonder Woman eat a Big Mac at super-speed while flying upside down as far as it goes.
But I do know she has experience with eating food, super-speed and flight. Therefore, if it were ever important to eat a Big Mac at super-speed while flying upside down she would.

I think you'd need Speed Force for something like that. A Big Mac doesn't survive traveling at supersonic speeds without the Speed Force protecting it.

I’m treating them both as if they’re masters of their own abilities, with years of experience behind it. But the abilities of one is handicapped by this scenario while the ability of the other is not, that’s a significant factor.

No you're not. You're completely discounting Diana's experiences with not having powers.

That’s like saying Cassandra is a teenager, Shiva is an adult, therefore adults in general aren’t stronger than teenagers.

It's... really not.

I didn’t bring up MMA because I thought a random member could beat Lady Shiva, I brought it up because if they separate the sexes and weight classes just as they would in the real world then it’s reasonable to assume they do so based on the same logic. Thus, sexual dimorphism and size both exists and is a significant enough factor to separate them in the first place.

None of that crap applies in a superhero universe.

If we changed those rules and then ignored factors such as sex or weight or age in the MMA the results would stay roughly competitive?

What am I? Psychic? They sure would have a lot more accidents and fatalities though.

Such a correction would imply that size is significant.

Yes, but not to determine fights. In comics, more than anything, height determines status.
Comicbook fights are not won according to skill, size, gender, reach, powers, but according to the needs of plot.

Is size significant for height and reach but not muscle mass and strength?

None of these factor into anything at all in superhero universe.

[richalex]

As of Rebirth she's 6'2" and taller than Bats and Supes.

Bruce is 6'2" and Clark is 6'3".....