Superman should be smarter than Batman?

[AlexanderLuthor]

I think with situations like this its more about peoples personal preferences ofc sales matter in how companies approach things but fans, esp big fans, aren't going to base opinion and personal enjoyment off of sales so I always find that to be a moot point.

How can that be a moot point when that's how DC bases it's characterizations? If Superman outsold Batman by that much then Batman would get punked by Superman all of the time. We would all laugh that a human with gadgets acts like he is God. Batman would become Blue Beetle with a better costume. The fact of the matter is that you can trace the depictions of Superman and Batman interactions through the years and see exactly when Batman became "cool" and the flagship of the DC line. It's not only not moot, it's the answer to the question

[Johnny Thunders!]

I just don't know what people mean when they think of Superman. The pendulum has just swung too far into superMAN. Was Dr. Manhattan smarter than Ozymandius? Superman at his best, can process information on both a cosmic and molecular scale using just his senses. We're not talking about the same type of being. Batman is the best a person can be right now today with tremendous physical gifts and endless grit. ( though I would argue the focus on his grief, makes him seem constantly wounded. Batman's too smart not to heal that grief. That's why Adam West Batman makes sense.) Superman walks into the 30th Century and !New Genesis as a peer. Why would they take Supermans mind after the first crisis? (And his speed, and his childhood...I better stop.)

[Lex Luthor]

How can that be a moot point when that's how DC bases it's characterizations? If Superman outsold Batman by that much then Batman would get punked by Superman all of the time. We would all laugh that a human with gadgets acts like he is God. Batman would become Blue Beetle with a better costume. The fact of the matter is that you can trace the depictions of Superman and Batman interactions through the years and see exactly when Batman became "cool" and the flagship of the DC line. It's not only not moot, it's the answer to the question

Its moot because peoples preferences aren't going to be shaped by DCs bottom line. Certain people have ideas or preferences for versions of the character that may not sell well but that is what they like. There isn't some definitive answer here and I'm simply gauging opinions on the matter.

[AlexanderLuthor]

How can that be a moot point when that's how DC bases it's characterizations? If Superman outsold Batman by that much then Batman would get punked by Superman all of the time. We would all laugh that a human with gadgets acts like he is God. Batman would become Blue Beetle with a better costume. The fact of the matter is that you can trace the depictions of Superman and Batman interactions through the years and see exactly when Batman became "cool" and the flagship of the DC line. It's not only not moot, it's the answer to the question

I just want to add quickly that I love Superman. I'm not trying to bag on the best comic creation ever, I'm just saying that's reality. If at some point Superman becomes more popular than Batman then they will be depicted differently and Superman will outsmart the human with gadgets. People understand how businesses work, right?

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think Batman as a better decision maker makes sense. When you can literally see everything from every angle, that can slow you down. I can see Batman being a more clear decision maker, maybe even strategist. But honestly, still Superman.

[AlexanderLuthor]

Its moot because peoples preferences aren't going to be shaped by DCs bottom line. Certain people have ideas or preferences for versions of the character that may not sell well but that is what they like. There isn't some definitive answer here and I'm simply gauging opinions on the matter.

Ok, fair enough. Yes, Kal-El's parents were probably both 200 IQ individuals (his father was the top scientist on the planet) on our basic human scale. Maybe higher given they were from a far advanced civilization that had evolved far beyond ours. So maybe 250-300 IQ on our rudimentary scale. Add to that under a yellow Sun, Kal can read at the speed of light - so he can not only read every piece of knowledge humans have, he can do that in a few seconds and then ponder it endlessly. So yes, he should be able to outsmart a guy that has a kryptonite ring in his pocket and trained in Asia for a few years.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with sales

[Stanlos]

Unapolagetically, yes.

Batman is MAN.

Superman is SUPERman.

[Adekis]

I'd love to see a story about Superman's relationship to Batman centering in on Superman's impact on Batman. Once Batman trusted him and understood him, Superman would really be inspiring to him and help shape his worldview. I'd have Superman be the reason Batman has a Robin in the first place and why Batman included Superman in Dick Grayson's training. Bruce would be using Superman to help build a better Batman. Batman should be a better detective and have a better sense of the workings of the criminal mind than Superman, but Superman should be the one who helps Batman with the super-science, expanded world view, and optimism.

I love this idea. Sort of the opposite of that silly American Alien issue where Batman inspires Clark to put on a cape for the first time, if instead Kal inspires Bruce to put a yellow background on his Bat for the first time and change his outfit from black to blue. Figuratively speaking, you know. And you know, Bruce can inspire Kal to make a better Superman too, with his understanding of the criminal mind and things like that- and even to make a better Clark in terms of his investigations!

I don't know if I buy that Bruce only takes Dick in because of Kal's influence though- I think that's a situation where he just saw himself in Dick and didn't know how else to deal with grief except to teach him to channel it into ass-kicking. But of course, I love how your idea takes into account what a big influence Kal had on Dick, right down to the part where Dick got the Nightwing name from Superman, making him officially the only lasting legacy character to Superman! So while Dick might have become Robin because of Bruce and his father, he definitely became Nightwing because of Kal.

Ok, fair enough. Yes, Kal-El's parents were probably both 200 IQ individuals (his father was the top scientist on the planet) on our basic human scale. Maybe higher given they were from a far advanced civilization that had evolved far beyond ours. So maybe 250-300 IQ on our rudimentary scale. Add to that under a yellow Sun, Kal can read at the speed of light - so he can not only read every piece of knowledge humans have, he can do that in a few seconds and then ponder it endlessly. So yes, he should be able to outsmart a guy that has a kryptonite ring in his pocket and trained in Asia for a few years.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with sales

You're not wrong, but you are deliberately ignoring the point of the discussion. Nobody in this thread is under the mistaken impression that we'll be able to affect how DC writes Batman or Superman. We're just indulging in low-standards literary criticism and "If I was in charge I would write it like this" because it's fun.

[daBronzeBomma]

Superman should Definitely be smarter than Batman.

Information-processing and pattern recognition by a yellow-sun-powered Kryptonian should be far, far greater than any normal terrestrial human.

But, and there is a HUGE caveat ...

Superman will never be as ruthless as Batman. And Batman will never be as ruthless as Lex Luthor.

Superman can take in and process any confrontational situation much quicker than Batman or Luthor.

But Superman won't immediately consider the options that cause undue harm to his opponent(s), whereas Batman will go straight to the harmful options immediately as long as those options don't kill anyone, whereas Luthor will go straight to the killing options immediately as long as he himself will survive (and to bring this to its final stage ... the Joker would go straight to the option that works, even/esp if it killed himself in the process).

[Lightning Rider]

I'm down with the "many types of intelligence" answers. For every category of intelligence, there should be a flip side to almost each of them.

Superman is better at appealing to someone's better nature, but Batman can more easily predict & deduce the motives of mortals.
Superman is better at analyzing & computing raw data, Batman is better at deconstructing a crime scene & developing theories for mysteries.
Superman is better at advanced technological engineering, Batman is better at improvising with raw materials in tight spots without the use of superpowers.
Superman should have a somewhat "enlightened" understanding of the Universe, Batman should feel his mortality in a very grounded way and also have some level of "enlightenment".

I don't mind a slightly more naive Superman. Just not a stupid one. I don't mind, for example, Superman beginning every conflict with a verbal threat or invitation to have a discussion instead of an ambush. Not just because he can, but because he should. He's a role model and a symbol of justice. A peacekeeper. His presence and symbol alone is a strength.

What I want to know is if superman is smart enough to deal with villains like metallo, kryptonite man and lex luthor (the smartest man in the DCU) then why can he not think of a way to deal with batman wielding kryptonite even when he knows he has a piece?

Is there any fight between them where:

1. Superman knows Batman has a piece of Kryptonite;
2. Superman isn't under mind control;
3. Batman uses the Kryptonite against him successfully in a fight without a sneak attack?

I don't imagine there is.

In fact I've seen the opposite happen. In "Justice", Superman detects Batman is mind controlled, and punches him before Batman can get the Kryptonite out.

[Francisco]

Superman is indeed smarter than Batman. As a matter of fact Superman is better than Batman at virtually everything. He is even a better detective than Batman.
To Superman there's nothing secret about human behavior. A well written Superman should be able to read any crime scene in matter of fractions of a second. The thing is if Superman was to be well written then Batman would be inconsequential. It is my belief that Superman shouldn't interact with Batman at all. He should even stay away from the league and just show up once in a blue moon doing something awesomely off the charts.