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  1. #16
    Mighty Member WhipWhirlwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    I agree. Why isn't it enough that the character is smart or a genius? Why do they have to be the genius? Thanks to this kind of stretch coming up so much, saying someone is the smartest person in the Marvel Universe has honestly lost all meaning.
    Right? At least Pak settled for 7th with Cho, and even then we got a chuckle out of Hank meeting him and being like "Welp I'm back, so better knock yourself down a slot".

    Not to mention, Cho actually was shown to be super intelligent, at least when it comes to probabilities. Has Moon Girl really shown that much?

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    I agree. Why isn't it enough that the character is smart or a genius? Why do they have to be the genius? Thanks to this kind of stretch coming up so much, saying someone is the smartest person in the Marvel Universe has honestly lost all meaning.
    not if they prove it.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    not if they prove it.
    It's pretty easy to write a smart guy in fiction by just having them create some super-genius solution with little other than gobbledygook explanation; it's fiction. So that sort of thing is bound to happen, and it's not easy to prove one guy's handwavium is superior to another's. The problem is when writers have their character demonstrate their superiority by deliberately downplaying other characters' accomplishments. That's the sort of thing that really rankles, when suddenly Reed Richards got beaten by the idiot stick so that newfangled character of the week could shine.

    Not saying that's what is happening or has happened here, but that's what bugs me most when this sort of thing often crops up.

  4. #19
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    not if they prove it.
    ...Until the next smartest person comes along and then the next and the next and so on and so forth. It's honestly gotten to the point of power level redundancy in Shounen battle series.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    ...Until the next smartest person comes along and then the next and the next and so on and so forth. It's honestly gotten to the point of power level redundancy in Shounen battle series.
    Marvel has done this in the past with Strength levels, too (doesn't seem as prevalent these days). I know they always used to make a point of showing people like Colossus being weaker than say the Hulk, but then a writer would decide that wasn't good enough and would increase the character's strength even further, seemingly just because.

    In part I blame that on the Handbooks, because it suddenly became a big deal to offer quantifications of power levels for some reason (Gruenwald seemed to really want to do this), and so you had some of these cases where the Handbooks didn't really fit the evidence.

    Now it looks like Intellect is the new Strength.

  6. #21
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    Just because you're smart doesn't mean you're wise.

  7. #22
    Spectacular Member Wulf1984's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    I agree. Why isn't it enough that the character is smart or a genius? Why do they have to be the genius? Thanks to this kind of stretch coming up so much, saying someone is the smartest person in the Marvel Universe has honestly lost all meaning.
    Hahaha! Just like how every X-Man is some Omega-level mutant with leadership capabilities.

    I'll believe it when heroes start visiting Moon Girl for scientific help and advice or Doctor Doom starts beefing with her because she's smarter than he is.

  8. #23
    Spectacular Member Wulf1984's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhudrew View Post
    Marvel has done this in the past with Strength levels, too (doesn't seem as prevalent these days). I know they always used to make a point of showing people like Colossus being weaker than say the Hulk, but then a writer would decide that wasn't good enough and would increase the character's strength even further, seemingly just because.

    In part I blame that on the Handbooks, because it suddenly became a big deal to offer quantifications of power levels for some reason (Gruenwald seemed to really want to do this), and so you had some of these cases where the Handbooks didn't really fit the evidence.

    Now it looks like Intellect is the new Strength.
    I think some of those evolving Strength levels was due to younger men reaching their peak over time.

    I always felt that Colossus was still growing and hadn't reached his peak yet. The Marvel Universe handbook had him at 75 tons originally--his entry had Colossus in his Uncanny X-Men 195-200 era costume. By Fall of the Mutants, Claremont mentioned that he was getting more massive, and Marc Silvestri drew him as this massive guy. In the binder-style handbooks that came out around the Jim Lee X-Men era, it was mentioned that Colossus was now lifting 90 tons.

    Warpath was another one who "grew up". I think he went from pressing 10 tons back in New Mutants to 75 tons in X-Force. And he was drawn freakishly larger.

  9. #24
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    Or maybe we're looking at this the wrong way and "the smartest" moniker is designed for the core audience of the book aka middle school kids...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf1984 View Post
    Hahaha! Just like how every X-Man is some Omega-level mutant with leadership capabilities.

    I'll believe it when heroes start visiting Moon Girl for scientific help and advice or Doctor Doom starts beefing with her because she's smarter than he is.
    Actually most of those end up having horrible deaths and their teams disbanded and killed. As for certain guy with glasses he learned his leadership stuff from 50 years of leading the X men with almost no pauses.

    As for moon Girl, I wanna see her making a cosmic cube, curing the terrigen mists disease, finding Hillary email and trump tax returns, beat ultimate reed Richards in chess and stealing the power cosmic before I can consider her to be a genius. Or maybe that's not her area of expertise

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by solletaire View Post
    Or maybe we're looking at this the wrong way and "the smartest" moniker is designed for the core audience of the book aka middle school kids...
    Problem there is they're not just using it as a tagline like calling Captain Marvel Earth's Mightiest Hero, they're actually incorporating it into the book itself. Now if this were a self-contained book in its own universe like how Marvel Adventures was, it'd be one thing. But this is canon to the MU as a whole so it's a much bigger deal regardless of who it's catering towards. At some point, you gotta wonder what the limit is before they start entering into Mary Sue territory.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulf1984 View Post
    I think some of those evolving Strength levels was due to younger men reaching their peak over time.

    I always felt that Colossus was still growing and hadn't reached his peak yet. The Marvel Universe handbook had him at 75 tons originally--his entry had Colossus in his Uncanny X-Men 195-200 era costume. By Fall of the Mutants, Claremont mentioned that he was getting more massive, and Marc Silvestri drew him as this massive guy. In the binder-style handbooks that came out around the Jim Lee X-Men era, it was mentioned that Colossus was now lifting 90 tons.

    Warpath was another one who "grew up". I think he went from pressing 10 tons back in New Mutants to 75 tons in X-Force. And he was drawn freakishly larger.
    and then he became super fast. and then he could fly, irrc. Proudstar should have changed his name to Powercreep.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    ...Until the next smartest person comes along and then the next and the next and so on and so forth. It's honestly gotten to the point of power level redundancy in Shounen battle series.
    that's just it. the title doesn't and hasn't ever meant anything. it's a descriptor; like Uncanny X-Men. are they really uncanny? are they the uncanniest? is Hulk the strongest or does he just become the strongest after Emil Blonsky gets him angry?

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhudrew View Post
    It's pretty easy to write a smart guy in fiction by just having them create some super-genius solution with little other than gobbledygook explanation; it's fiction. So that sort of thing is bound to happen, and it's not easy to prove one guy's handwavium is superior to another's. The problem is when writers have their character demonstrate their superiority by deliberately downplaying other characters' accomplishments. That's the sort of thing that really rankles, when suddenly Reed Richards got beaten by the idiot stick so that newfangled character of the week could shine.
    but it's alright when it's not a newfangled character, though; right? because Doctor Doom has made Reed look stupid; plenty of times. people like Ant-Man, Luke Cage, and Squirrel Girl have made Doom look stupid, at least once. people are not going to accept Lunella as a super genius until she does something with her intellect that Reed or Doom haven't. and some people will see that as a slight against Reed and/or Doom. there's no avoiding it. personally, I think they called her the smartest because it is attention-grabbing. it's right out of the Stan Lee playbook.

  15. #30
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    It's gonna be pretty tough to be smarter than the dude who is currently rebuilding the multiverse.

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