Wonder Woman #5 Spoilers and Discussion

[brettc1]

I really enjoyed this, though it didn't have quite the punch of the last one where Diana showed such compassion for Barbara. Steve was awesome, and I'm a huge Sasha fan, so that was cool (though man, can she get a break from being part of some cyborg villain plots sometime? . I do wish Rucka had been a bit less obvious about the "toxic masculinity" thing - it's a bit too buzzwordy - I feel even if he'd just said "poisonous" it would have felt less "oooh, I'm so hip and with the current discourse" and more "this is a universal human problem" (which it is). But I agreed with the point (as far as I understand it), and really enjoyed Diana showing up at the end.

I agree Steve was awesome. I had not encountered the phrase 'toxic masculinity' before [but I googled it after some of the comments here] so it didnt bother me .

What I really enjoyed was seeing, for the first time in far too few times over the last few decades, a positive male figure like Steve calling a nut job like Cadulo on his crap. I'm very much looking forward to seeing Wonder Woman alongside a regular male cast member who shows guys in a positive light. (Without a book with the name Wonder Woman in the title being used as an extra title for that characters own story arcs)

Also good to see Urzkataga 'fleshed out'. For an idea thats been around now for 3 decades, the plant god has always been rather vague. Ruka's take on the concept is proving very interesting.

Overall another great issue.

[Rise]

This series is seriously slow paced, but I'm still enjoying it.

[borntohula]

Here's some speculation that it's OMAC http://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-5-in...r-to-the-cast/

Quite okay issue nonetheless. Stuff happens. Some bad dialogue. Liam Sharp draws some really good art. Fun to see where it's heading.

[Largo161]

Anyone know why issue #6 is due in "three weeks" instead of two? Are they behind schedule already?

[millernumber1]

Anyone know why issue #6 is due in "three weeks" instead of two? Are they behind schedule already?

It's a second and fourth week book, and this month has a fifth week.

[Largo161]

It's a second and fourth week book, and this month has a fifth week.

Oh, I see! Thx

[darkseidpwns]

Here's some speculation that it's OMAC http://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-5-in...r-to-the-cast/

Quite okay issue nonetheless. Stuff happens. Some bad dialogue. Liam Sharp draws some really good art. Fun to see where it's heading.

The speculator would be advised to read the issue more carefully. Sasha specifically says Doctor while talking to the voice,besides,Brother Eye has it's own font and it's own unique manner of speaking. That's not Brother Eye or an O.M.A.C by extension.

[K. Jones]

The speculator would be advised to read the issue more carefully. Sasha specifically says Doctor while talking to the voice,besides,Brother Eye has it's own font and it's own unique manner of speaking. That's not Brother Eye or an O.M.A.C by extension.

There's also that upcoming Liam Sharp cover to think about.

[borntohula]

The speculator would be advised to read the issue more carefully. Sasha specifically says Doctor while talking to the voice,besides,Brother Eye has it's own font and it's own unique manner of speaking. That's not Brother Eye or an O.M.A.C by extension.

Certainly. Not only as you say with Doctor, not to mention BE's speech pattern as well as red eye symbol.

But I think there could be something to it. Bit of a callback to the OMAC story, but with Dr Cyber instead.

[brettc1]

Here's some speculation that it's OMAC http://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-5-in...r-to-the-cast/

Quite okay issue nonetheless. Stuff happens. Some bad dialogue. Liam Sharp draws some really good art. Fun to see where it's heading.

The link is dead, but OMAC or Brother Eye would also make sense, given its history with Diana.

Of course it could be both those AND Cyber. Dr Cyber never appeared in volume 2 or 3, so tying her with OMAC could be her new origin story.

By the way, I noticed that at least two of the pics in the memory montage were from Gail Simone's Circle Story. The pic of Ares seemed to be from Volume 2's first story - I'm guessing the pic of Diana getting blasted goes back to that story as well. The link seems to be that both those stories included a story about Diana's own birth.

[anarki]

Cadulo finds a picture of WW, then he believes Steve was chosen by the gods, then he decides Steve should be the vessle, why?
Are the gods Greek gods? Urzkartaga has connections with them?

"Urzkartaga was attended by women drawn to his potency. Those who were unfaithful were cursed. Those who were true were rewarded."
means women attacted by Urzkartaga's sex ability? or am i misunderstanding?

[Darius]

I agree Steve was awesome. I had not encountered the phrase 'toxic masculinity' before [but I googled it after some of the comments here] so it didnt bother me .

What I really enjoyed was seeing, for the first time in far too few times over the last few decades, a positive male figure like Steve calling a nut job like Cadulo on his crap. I'm very much looking forward to seeing Wonder Woman alongside a regular male cast member who shows guys in a positive light. (Without a book with the name Wonder Woman in the title being used as an extra title for that characters own story arcs)

Also good to see Urzkataga 'fleshed out'. For an idea thats been around now for 3 decades, the plant god has always been rather vague. Ruka's take on the concept is proving very interesting.

Overall another great issue.

I took the "toxic masculinity" line as a bit of a nod to Marston's quote about why he created WW in the first place "comics' worst offense was their blood-curdling masculinity."

[brettc1]

I took the "toxic masculinity" line as a bit of a nod to Marston's quote about why he created WW in the first place "comics' worst offense was their blood-curdling masculinity."

It could well be. But the phrase "toxic masculinity" is a fairly recent term which is supposed to describe the negative effects of certain ideas about how men should behave.

Personally I find the term pretty on the nose, since there can be a strong implication that masculinity itself in innately toxic. Rucka neatly sidesteps that issue here with the way Steve speaks, but I think warped or perverted masculinity would have been a better qualifier. That would make it clear that the issue is around an idea of what masculinity is, not the state of being male inherently.

The women being drawn to The plant gods potency seems to be a sexual reference but also to the concept that maleness is an active, empowering state while femininity is naturally passive and drawn to the more dynamic energy of the male. At the same time, "impure" women are reduced to a bestial level, unable to control their animalistic urges.

There are some strong parallels there with the argument that, for a long time anyway, women in comics who attained significant power always ended up losing control of it. Examples would be Scarlet Witch, Jean Grey in the original Phoenix Saga, or Raven from Teen Titans.

[Darius]

It could well be. But the phrase "toxic masculinity" is a fairly recent term which is supposed to describe the negative effects of certain ideas about how men should behave.

Personally I find the term pretty on the nose, since there can be a strong implication that masculinity itself in innately toxic. Rucka neatly sidesteps that issue here with the way Steve speaks, but I think warped or perverted masculinity would have been a better qualifier. That would make it clear that the issue is around an idea of what masculinity is, not the state of being male inherently.

The women being drawn to The plant gods potency seems to be a sexual reference but also to the concept that maleness is an active, empowering state while femininity is naturally passive and drawn to the more dynamic energy of the male. At the same time, "impure" women are reduced to a bestial level, unable to control their animalistic urges.

There are some strong parallels there with the argument that, for a long time anyway, women in comics who attained significant power always ended up losing control of it. Examples would be Scarlet Witch, Jean Grey in the original Phoenix Saga, or Raven from Teen Titans.

I suppose I see what Marston was getting at in his comment and what he did with WW back then as quite similar to the concept you're describing

[brettc1]

I suppose I see what Marston was getting at in his comment and what he did with WW back then as quite similar to the concept you're describing

I also enjoy how, like Marston, Rucka uses Steve as a natural counter point to the more perfidious concept of masculinity that Cadulo is espousing. The warlord sees the photo of Diana and naturally assumes that Steve has it because he wants to possess her. Steve points out that is not the way his feelings towards Diana run at all.

There's an interesting contrast to be made with the recent Superman Wonder Woman series. Not with the way Superman acted in the stories, but rather with the way the series overall was constructed, with the creative teams giving Superman are more and more dominant role in the storytelling to the point where Wonder Woman felt like the regular guest star in an extra Superman title.

On the other hand, years ago Ruckawas writing both the Superman and Wonder Woman titles and while I disagreed with some of his creative choices I generally felt he gave equal gravitas to both characters where there stories crossed over.