"Crime Alley": When did it earn its nickname / it's reputation?

[MajorHoy]

When I read Batman stories as a kid/young adult (back in the last century), it also seemed to me that the area called "Crime Alley" didn't really earn its reputation and nickname until AFTER Thomas and Martha Wayne were killed there.

But in reading the recent Detective Comics (issue #939), it seemed from the flashback to the funeral for the Waynes that maybe it was already a known trouble spot even before they were shot there?



So, when did "Crime Alley" become known for crime and/or murder? And has the timeframe evolved and changed over time?

[Caivu]

I'm only finding things for BtAS continuity at the moment, but the timeline sounds like this:

- Park Row is built and opens. Leslie Thompkins is among the very first residents to live on this street.
- Over the next 30 years, the area gradually falls into crime and gains its nickname.
- The Waynes are murdered.

I'd always figured Crime Alley was a problem area from the get-go. Apparently not, but the idea that it was already a bad place even before the Waynes were killed has existed in some form for almost 25 years.

[bat39]

From what I understand, Park Row was a posh area for Gotham's elites, but crime was slowly starting to take a hold there. Then the Wayne's were murdered and that incident scared off Gotham's wealthy and powerful from the area and they basically 'ceded' the space to criminals.

[JBatmanFan05]

From what I understand, Park Row was a posh area for Gotham's elites, but crime was slowly starting to take a hold there. Then the Wayne's were murdered and that incident scared off Gotham's wealthy and powerful from the area and they basically 'ceded' the space to criminals.

Yes, that's my understanding as well. These sorts of gradual intrusions and secessions happened in big cities.

[GigiFusc]

I don't remember it being called Crime Alley from when I was a younger reader in the 80's and 90's. I only realised it was called that recently.

When did this all happen? Was it always called Crime alley or is that a new thing? Having said that, other than Year one, not that many stories made reference to it in those days.

[MajorHoy]

I don't remember it being called Crime Alley from when I was a younger reader in the 80's and 90's. I only realised it was called that recently..
When did this all happen? Was it always called Crime alley or is that a new thing?

There are Batman stories from back in the 1970s like "There Is No Hope in Crime Alley!" and "The Curse of Crime Alley".

[GigiFusc]

There are Batman stories from back in the 1970s like "There Is No Hope in Crime Alley!" and "The Curse of Crime Alley".

Thanks, I did wonder. Was it something that just wasn't made a big deal of back in those days? I guess with todays marketing, they love to give something a brand name.

Do you know if it was reffered to as Crime Alley in Year one?

[phantom1592]

From what I understand, Park Row was a posh area for Gotham's elites, but crime was slowly starting to take a hold there. Then the Wayne's were murdered and that incident scared off Gotham's wealthy and powerful from the area and they basically 'ceded' the space to criminals.

This makes the most sense really. I mean really, of all the theaters to go to and walk around at night... why would the billionaires go to the one in the BAD part of town? heck, in Batman Begins, it wasn't even a movie... it was an Opera.

I find it easier to believe a few criminals would wait outside theaters in the richer part of town hoping to find some wealthy victims... then I can Thomas and Martha taking their son to see a movie in the slums.

All that publicity of the Wayne murder could easily spiral a decent neighborhood into something terrible.


Now that's it mentioned though... I wonder why it's STILL called Crime Alley? You would think that once Batman wandered into the night... that THAT spot would be the first one he'd want to stamp out all crime in. Just DEMOLISH anyone pulling a gun in that neighborhood till they scattered to new hunting grounds. It SHOULD be the safest place in all gotham.

[codystarbuck]

There are Batman stories from back in the 1970s like "There Is No Hope in Crime Alley!" and "The Curse of Crime Alley".

Yeah, it originated in Denny O'Neil's writing. Leslie Thompkins was originally a resident of the surrounding neighborhood, who comforted the traumatized Bruce. She was revamped, post-Crisis, into being a family friend of the Waynes and a colleague of Thomas. "The Curse of Crime Alley" is one of the best Batman stories, ever, and was picked as one of DC's best, in their Year's Best digest. It features some wonderful moody art from the criminally under-appreciated Don Newton.

[Aioros22]

From a storytelling perception, it doesn´t make much sense for the nickname to have already been there before the Waynes were murdered in that alley. One, because it paints the Waynes as absolutely stupid and two because the name comes up with the stigma of being the place where such prominent figures and status in Gotham`s high social life lost their life.

So, to me, that part of Dec doesn`t jib well. It`s "Crime Alley" after the Waynes are murdered.

[codystarbuck]

In O'Neil's story, it arises after the murder, as I recall.

[MajorHoy]

In O'Neil's story, it arises after the murder, as I recall.

But that was then (pre-CoIE). Has it officially changed since then, or is Tynion just one current writer and an example of "loose continuity"?

[Aioros22]

I don`t recall many writers naming it such before the Waynes died there. The Parker Row decline is something I first recall reading in Barr`s Detective run but that declining was gradual over the decades, not the overnight stigma that was attached to Crime Alley. That murder is what put the seal of crime in that area and scared off the higher class.

[codystarbuck]

But that was then (pre-CoIE). Has it officially changed since then, or is Tynion just one current writer and an example of "loose continuity"?

Post-Crisis, I believe, it was applied after the murder, as well.