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  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Between Cyborg, Vixen, Static, and Icon DC has plenty of black characters specifically that could anchor their own franchise on a streaming service or the big screen. And with Milestone back they quite frankly have no excuse not to make these types of projects. It's not like audiences are particularly biased against relative unknown characters. Shazam is one of the biggest heroes at DC and his movie barely made back its money.

    Meanwhile hardly anyone (including many Marvel comics fans) knew who Black Panther was prior to 2016 and his movie obliterates Justice League's box office. The market is so democratized at this point that you can throw anyone a project and as long as the cast and creatives are strong it can work. Get an actor/actress and director with the interest and notoriety and people will watch damn near anything. We're in an era where Peacemaker is getting a TV show, I think the market can handle a Vixen show by Ava Duvernay.
    I would hold off on saying Milestone characters, they still need to get their feet off the ground in the comics. With the recent Milestone Returns Zero there was a lot of mixed reception to Staticís new origin and depiction of the other characters and if they chose to implement those versions into the films I think it would be a bit more controversial. Cyborg and Vixen probably donít have the allure for a film but maybe a streaming property, but the thing with them is they have no source material and have pretty much played supporting roles. Due to the failure of Justice League Cyborg was not elevated in popularity nor was Vixen with her animated properties and appearance on Legends Of Tomorrow. These characters will be risky and due to their low popularity they may be more hesitant or reticent to pursue them in any form.

  2. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr HardKnocks View Post
    I would hold off on saying Milestone characters, they still need to get their feet off the ground in the comics. With the recent Milestone Returns Zero there was a lot of mixed reception to Static’s new origin and depiction of the other characters and if they chose to implement those versions into the films I think it would be a bit more controversial. Cyborg and Vixen probably don’t have the allure for a film but maybe a streaming property, but the thing with them is they have no source material and have pretty much played supporting roles. Due to the failure of Justice League Cyborg was not elevated in popularity nor was Vixen with her animated properties and appearance on Legends Of Tomorrow. These characters will be risky and due to their low popularity they may be more hesitant or reticent to pursue them in any form.
    Like I said, if Peacemaker can get a TV show I don't think anyone is off the table. Just get a actor/actress and a high level director and people will watch anything no matter who the character is. Especially if audiences are first exposed to them in a big ensemble film, like Peacemaker is. Static carried a whole TV show by himself, the fact his most recent book was lackluster is immaterial. Icon held a comic long before this recent Milestone revival. Does that mean DC shouldn't put out good content with them in the present? Of course not, but I think you overestimate the amount of influence recent comics have on adaptations. It's superficial influence but it's not much. Hell, some adaptations aren't even all that swayed by recent comics at all.

    Cyborg and Vixen don't have any less source material than Peacemaker, I'd argue. The only difference is a big debut in an ensemble film (assuming The Suicide Squad is even good). Vic is in the SnyderCut, where he's been stated on multiple occasions to be the "heart" so maybe that's the push he needs to be streaming worthy. His solos haven't been great but these are adaptations so they can cut the stuff that didn't work and highlight the stuff that did. That's where the talented actors and creators come in. Vixen, who's had a brief animated series and has ties to various corners of the DCU also has adaptation potential for 6-8 episode series. A potentially low-budget one at that. All she needs is a strong debut somewhere to get mainstream first.

    Simply put, I count several black characters who with the right investment could support their own projects. Comic fans may not see their value, but it's casuals who make up the market, and as long as a character has a strong first appearance followed by a project with a good team people know, they can make the investment profitable.

  3. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr HardKnocks View Post
    I would hold off on saying Milestone characters, they still need to get their feet off the ground in the comics. With the recent Milestone Returns Zero there was a lot of mixed reception to Staticís new origin and depiction of the other characters and if they chose to implement those versions into the films I think it would be a bit more controversial. Cyborg and Vixen probably donít have the allure for a film but maybe a streaming property, but the thing with them is they have no source material and have pretty much played supporting roles. Due to the failure of Justice League Cyborg was not elevated in popularity nor was Vixen with her animated properties and appearance on Legends Of Tomorrow. These characters will be risky and due to their low popularity they may be more hesitant or reticent to pursue them in any form.
    The Patience Philips Catwoman didn't have any source material, but they made a movie with her anyway (the script and dialogue were horrible, though). But that still did not stop Warner Bros. from bringing a new original character to the big screen and giving her an origin story and a direction. Vixen and Cyborg have way more source material to pull from than Patience Philips ever had.

    Also, new original characters are created all the time for movies, and they all don't have any source material to pull from since they are new. But that never stops Hollywood from coming up with stories for these characters.

    Plus I'd be willing to bet that Vixen is a lot more popular NOW than she was a decade ago BECAUSE she has been seen in more media outside of comics and beyond the Justice League Unlimited animated series, BECAUSE of her two "season" animated "series" and an expansion of Vixen's mythos in "Legends of Tomorrow." Furthermore, I bet you a lot of people thought making a Black Panther movie would be risky, but Marvel Studios eventually introduced him in the MCU, gave him a solo movie, and we all know how successful THAT turned out to be. How do we know the same thing won't happen with Vixen? (rhetorical question).
    Last edited by MoneySpider; 09-26-2020 at 10:02 AM.
    Black Panther - Champion of Bast
    Vixen - Champion of Anansi

  4. #439
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr HardKnocks View Post
    I understand, but a lot of DCs non white characters donít really have the allure for solo adaptations and given DC/WBs struggle with their cinematic universe as well as their need to capitalize off their most popular characters, itíll be a few years before we get an authentic film with a non white lead.
    What about ..."Black Adam??" The Rock isn't white.

    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Like I said, if Peacemaker can get a TV show I don't think anyone is off the table.
    Quoted because yes - good point. It just takes a creator to have a vision for the IP. Crazy that it's been over 20 years since "Blade" and this is still an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    The Patience Philips Catwoman didn't have any source material, but they made a movie with her anyway (the script and dialogue were horrible, though). But that still did not stop Warner Bros. from bringing a new original character to the big screen and giving her an origin story and a direction. Vixen and Cyborg have way more source material to pull from than Patience Philips ever had.
    This just makes me think Halle Berry would have been a great Vixen - and now I am sad for the missed opportunity where they should have just made it a Vixen movie instead of Catwoman. Berry being an A-List actor at the time would have driven enough interest to a lesser-known character.
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 09-26-2020 at 10:30 AM.

  5. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Agreed. In the long run it doesnít help in progressing efforts to make DC more diverse. Hawkman will still be white in the comics, on merchandise, in cartoons, etc. Changing a characterís ethnicity is kind of like a PR move. It makes the company look good on the surface but in reality theyíve gone with an easy (and usually temporary) fix.

    I would much prefer an actual POC character, with their own history, get a mainstream push.

    With all that said, Iím sure heíll be a good Hawkman and Iím still really looking forward to the movie.
    I wouldnít necessarily say that especially with the nature of Hawks characters , I wouldnít shocked if Either right before the movie or right after the movie comes out either right before the movie or right after the movie comes out hes killed again reborn looking like Aldis Hodge. Long as the movie definitely expect Hodge Hawkman to become default in all media (cartoons, toys, shirts & etc).


    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Like I said, if Peacemaker can get a TV show I don't think anyone is off the table. Just get a actor/actress and a high level director and people will watch anything no matter who the character is. Especially if audiences are first exposed to them in a big ensemble film, like Peacemaker is. Static carried a whole TV show by himself, the fact his most recent book was lackluster is immaterial. Icon held a comic long before this recent Milestone revival. Does that mean DC shouldn't put out good content with them in the present? Of course not, but I think you overestimate the amount of influence recent comics have on adaptations. It's superficial influence but it's not much. Hell, some adaptations aren't even all that swayed by recent comics at all.

    Cyborg and Vixen don't have any less source material than Peacemaker, I'd argue. The only difference is a big debut in an ensemble film (assuming The Suicide Squad is even good). Vic is in the SnyderCut, where he's been stated on multiple occasions to be the "heart" so maybe that's the push he needs to be streaming worthy. His solos haven't been great but these are adaptations so they can cut the stuff that didn't work and highlight the stuff that did. That's where the talented actors and creators come in. Vixen, who's had a brief animated series and has ties to various corners of the DCU also has adaptation potential for 6-8 episode series. A potentially low-budget one at that. All she needs is a strong debut somewhere to get mainstream first.

    Simply put, I count several black characters who with the right investment could support their own projects. Comic fans may not see their value, but it's casuals who make up the market, and as long as a character has a strong first appearance followed by a project with a good team people know, they can make the investment profitable.
    This , is Peacemaker can get a show anyone can , if a Talking Tree & Raccoon can become breakout characters anyone can all it takes is effort

  6. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4sake Baned View Post
    This , is Peacemaker can get a show anyone can , if a Talking Tree & Raccoon can become breakout characters anyone can all it takes is effort
    I think it is more John Cena who is getting a show and not Peacemaker.

  7. #442
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4sake Baned View Post
    This , is Peacemaker can get a show anyone can , if a Talking Tree & Raccoon can become breakout characters anyone can all it takes is effort
    Apparently, what it takes is James Gunn...

  8. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr HardKnocks View Post
    I would hold off on saying Milestone characters, they still need to get their feet off the ground in the comics. With the recent Milestone Returns Zero there was a lot of mixed reception to Static’s new origin and depiction of the other characters and if they chose to implement those versions into the films I think it would be a bit more controversial. Cyborg and Vixen probably don’t have the allure for a film but maybe a streaming property, but the thing with them is they have no source material and have pretty much played supporting roles.
    What allure did the following folks have to warrant movies?

    Steel, Barbwire, Blade, Swamp Thing, Constantine, Judge Dredd & Spawn

    What allure did the following have to warrant a tv show?

    Spawn, Savage Dragon, Ultraforce, Nightman, Wildcats, Static and Blade.


    Due to the failure of Justice League Cyborg was not elevated in popularity nor was Vixen with her animated properties and appearance on Legends Of Tomorrow. These characters will be risky and due to their low popularity they may be more hesitant or reticent to pursue them in any form.
    Cyborg was POPULAR before Justice League. There is a reason folks FAVOR Teen Titan and Doom Patrol Cyborg over Ray Fisher's version.

    Vixen. Unlike her WHITE counterparts did not get the perks they got like comic book solo series or even MERCHANDISE. Where were the Vixen shirts at? Like I saw with Arrow and Supergirl? Funny She, Black Lightning and Static can't get those perks despite tv shows. Deathstroke can GUEST star on Arrow and get 2 solo runs.

    Low popularity?

    Peacemaker has not been seen until Doomsday Clock for almost 20 years (not counting Blue Beetle Peacemaker).
    He has 9 solo issues to his name.

    How is he not a risk? I don't want to hear about John Cena.
    There was a LINE of folks begging to play John Stewart and Vixen.

    How is Peacemaker not a risk on a streaming service?

    I understand, but a lot of DCs non white characters don’t really have the allure for solo adaptations and given DC/WBs struggle with their cinematic universe as well as their need to capitalize off their most popular characters, it’ll be a few years before we get an authentic film with a non white lead.
    Whose fault it that????

    And what is this allure crap? Who are we alluring to??? The folks who tried to review bomb Black Panther and Cap Marvel? The folks continue to troll John Boyega? The mysterious Hawkman fans who have popped up to throw a fit about Hodge's casting? The folks who swear up and down Star Wars is DEAD because of Finn. The folks ready to turn movie theaters into shooting galleries over a black Johnny Storm? The ones who blame a variant cover for DC firing folks?

    Who are they??? Who are these people that so important that NOTHING can be done with POC because of them.

    Last time I checked having a comic book series meant NOTHING when it comes to films or tv shows.
    But if we MUST go there in terms of who is ready or can be ready that is not white. Lets go.

    Michael Cray
    Marcus King
    Orpheus
    Amazing Man
    Black Lightning
    Vixen
    Grave Digger
    Bloodwynd
    Michael Lane
    Shilo Norman
    Manhattan Guardian
    Impala
    Mr Terrific

    All could give you a movie at a budget BELOW 100 million. Some could be done even cheaper.

  9. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    All could give you a movie at a budget BELOW 100 million. Some could be done even cheaper.
    I feel like we've been spoiled with the special effects we have gotten for Vixen, in particular. There was not supposed to be an actual visible manifestation of an animal when she used her powers for ages, and an adaptation back in the day could have just had an animal sound effect play as she used cheetah speed or elephant strength or an eagle's flight, to completely eliminate the CGI animal-cartoon-animation. I would have been *totally* fine with that. The CGI we did get was fine, but I actually prefer her being able to covertly use her powers, without a big blue CGI animation lighting up the room and pointing her out to everyone...

    And yeah, the others, also shouldn't be that hard. Mr. T's T-spheres just mimic that tiny drone Luke practiced against in the first Star Wars movie, 40-something freaking years ago. Bloodwynd's 'ghosts' could just be normal actors in period costumes that the rest of the actors ignore, like in various ghost movies. Some effects will cost more, like Black Lightning's lightning displays (which, again, they've been doing since Star Wars), or Impala's super-speed, or Amazing Man's many material transformations (that seems to be an expensive one, given how rarely they use Nate's ability on Legends of Tomorrow...).

    So many excuses for why movies haven't been made with these characters are just that, excuses.

    The main excuse I see is that they need a writer willing to write a screenplay for them *or* an actor looking for a vehicle (as Halle Berry was when Catwoman got pushed, or, far more successfully, as Ryan Reynolds was when Deadpool got 'accidentally' leaked into existence).

    We just need a notable actor, like Djimon Hounsoo, to get pushed for a role. (I picked his name out of a hat, because it amuses me that he could be Dr. Mist/Nommo, who takes turns pretending to be other mystical advisors, like the wizard Shazam, or Papa Midnight, as necessary to push heroes towards supernatural threats. Just not even a little bit like Nick Fury.)

  10. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    How is he not a risk? I don't want to hear about John Cena.
    You might not want to hear it, but he is probably the deciding factor, since his popularity makes easily up for the obscurity of his character.

    And I guess Steel, Barbwire were made for similar reasons.

    And there would probably be also no Black Adam Movie without the Rock playing him.
    Last edited by Aahz; 09-26-2020 at 10:08 PM.

  11. #446
    Incredible Member Samm's Avatar
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    1. Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)- 182 issues
    2. Green Lantern (John Stewart)- 80 issues
    3. Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)- 79 issues
    4. Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)- 72 issues
    5. Static (Virgil Hawkins)- 59 issues
    6. Firestorm (Jason Rusch)- 56 issues
    7. Arak- 56 issues
    8. Green Lantern (Jessica Cruz)- 56 issues
    9. Green Lantern (Simon Baz)- 54 issues
    10. Steel- 53 issues


    In terms of solo success, this is what I got when I added up runs that focused on them. Wonder when DC will give John, Cass, and Jaime more issues so they can get over the century mark? Marvel already has Black Panther, Luke Cage and Shang Chi over that amount, DC only has Kyle. Though DCís are all legacies while Marvels are originals

  12. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    1. Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)- 182 issues
    2. Green Lantern (John Stewart)- 80 issues
    3. Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)- 79 issues
    4. Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)- 72 issues
    5. Static (Virgil Hawkins)- 59 issues
    6. Firestorm (Jason Rusch)- 56 issues
    7. Arak- 56 issues
    8. Green Lantern (Jessica Cruz)- 56 issues
    9. Green Lantern (Simon Baz)- 54 issues
    10. Steel- 53 issues


    In terms of solo success, this is what I got when I added up runs that focused on them. Wonder when DC will give John, Cass, and Jaime more issues so they can get over the century mark? Marvel already has Black Panther, Luke Cage and Shang Chi over that amount, DC only has Kyle. Though DC’s are all legacies while Marvels are originals
    Miles Morales is at 89 issues so he's likely to hit 100 issues before any of the other DC characters yet to reach 100.

    Maybe with the new upper management team coming in, they'll look to do something with the people on that list.

  13. #448
    Incredible Member Samm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Miles Morales is at 89 issues so he's likely to hit 100 issues before any of the other DC characters yet to reach 100.

    Maybe with the new upper management team coming in, they'll look to do something with the people on that list.
    Yeah if I make an overall list it’s 4 DC, 6 Marvel.

    1) Black Panther
    2) Kyle Rayner
    3) Luke Cage
    4) Shang Chi
    5) Miles Morales
    6) Miguel O’Hara
    7) John Stewart
    8) Cassandra Cain
    9) Jaime Reyes
    10) Ms Marvel

    Next up would be War Machine, Static, Jason Rusch, Arak and Jessica Cruz

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Miles Morales is at 89 issues so he's likely to hit 100 issues before any of the other DC characters yet to reach 100.

    Maybe with the new upper management team coming in, they'll look to do something with the people on that list.
    Miles & Ms Marvel will hit 100 before anyone else at DC of color. Miles should be in 2021. Ms Marvel 2023.

    Panther hits 200 when his next run arrives.

  15. #450
    Incredible Member Samm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Miles & Ms Marvel will hit 100 before anyone else at DC of color. Miles should be in 2021. Ms Marvel 2023.

    Panther hits 200 when his next run arrives.
    I think you’re right but hopefully DC surprises us and actually gives John and Cass solos, like is being hinted at. Jaime should get one too because he shouldn’t be in limbo, make them digital only if it means they’ll last longer! 100 issues is a big deal and not many characters can claim that.

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