New Image Rule?

[armlessphelan]

Apparently, to help cut down on all the delays, Image is instituting a new policy that creators must have three completed issues before they'll solicit a new book. I think this is smart, but I wonder if it's just for new books or if ones that take time off between arcs are susceptible to this same rule. I don't know much about it because Rob Liefeld mentioned it in passing during his new Youngblood reveal on Nerdy Pop.

https://youtu.be/uk4QuQMvYGI

[sven]

Pretty sure it applies to all titles.

[Adam-X]

Probably made it because of Rob... who back in 2010, announced a new Brigade series and came out with only one issue... then in 2015 a new Bloodstrike series, and only came out with two issues and...

[HsssH]

Rob has his own imprint as far as I know so he probably can do whatever he wants.

[JFP]

Again, these dudes are implementing the type of **** fans have been suggesting for years. For years, fans have suggested directly to the Image people that they take a hand in promoting the comics published by them, like having a magazine. But it's always been "that goes against the creator-owned concept". Now, earlier this year, when they made a magazine, they apparently feel it doesn't go against creator-owned concepts.

Fans have also been suggesting that Image creators have some issues completed before putting a new book out. We get the usual "it goes against creator-owned concept". Now, lo and behold, they are doing another thing fans have suggested for more years. This is the kinda stuff we were talking about in that "should image enforce a deadline policy" thread:

http://community.comicbookresources....ually-come-out

Having 3 issues in the can before starting out a new book is something we were interested in seeing, where guys like capuga, Bor, and other posters were whining, "How is the creator supposed to make money during that time? Do you think it's good he loses money?"

When the magazine came out, a whole bunch of fanboys who had previously said something like that is a stupid idea did a 180 and said that was a brilliant idea. How much do you wanna bet that all the fanboys who previously said "having 3 issues before publishing is a stupid idea" are now gonna call it a brilliant idea?

Fanboys come in three categories:
1. Those who are willing to speak their mind.
2. Those who are more or less passive.
3. Those who are spineless sycophants who parrot anything the creators say. If creators say, "making sure you have 3 issues done before publishing is a stupid idea" then those sycophants will say, "Yeah, it's stupid idea! How can you guys doubt what the creators are saying? They are industry professionals. You're not." Then when the creators say, "I think we'll make sure to have 3 issues out before publishing after all," those fanboys will say, "That's an absolutely brilliant idea. It's so smart of you guys to think of this idea."

This is the reason why the comic book industry can't move forward. The creators let their heads get gassed up from their lapdogs, excuse me, fanboys and then they feel no reason to listen to criticism, even when they see it costs them sales.

I have to wonder why Image is imposing this **** now after customers have been suggesting this for more than a decade. My guess is with Walking Dead and Invincible dying out, they have lost their flagship titles that have done tremendous things to keep them relevant. With those two books gone soon, they realize they are stuck with a whole bunch of uncertain titles that might not come out on time. So they have to do something to kick it up a notch as a way to find solutions to get books that will take the place of Invincible and WD.

[capuga]

I've never, in my years on any comic forum, seen any argue that Image should create some kind of magazine or seen fanboys shoot down that idea. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I've never seen it. I don't really see the downside so I'm not sure what the negative argue would be.

And the having to have 3 issues in the can idea is still problematic from a money standpoint. Is Image provided advances to help keep things afloat in the meantime? I don't know. But it will create a barrier to many creators that won't be able to afford the months of work without some sales in return. I agree that it may possibly help them in the long run. Less delays equal happier fans equal (potentially) more sales in the long run. But that is still going to be a hard sell to some creators that won't have any cash flow coming in the help pay bills for months.

I not arguing if that is good or bad, just a likely reality. Maybe it will weed out that less dedicated creators and help the overall industry in the long run. Or maybe it will stifle entry into the market and reduce the creativity and potential of the industry. I don't know.

However, there is a big, big difference between your publisher having a known, set policy that you can plan around and fans demanding that you work for free to please their desires in a release schedule. If you know going in that you can't publish without issues completed, that is a reality you can plan for and know going into a deal with Image. An entitled fan claiming that a creator needs to work for no money for months just because they aren't getting issues as quickly as they want is a different issue.

And Walking Dead dying out? The singles are a top 10 or 15 seller at around 65,000 in the direct market. Every collected edition sells like hot cakes. There are tons of different merchandise, video games, beer, etc. The TV show is still the #1 show in the demographics. Universal Studios just opened a Walking Dead attraction in their theme park. Invincible is ending of it's own accord, but the thought that Walking Dead is dying out is without merit.

[JFP]

I've never, in my years on any comic forum, seen any argue that Image should create some kind of magazine or seen fanboys shoot down that idea. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I've never seen it. I don't really see the downside so I'm not sure what the negative argue would be.

And the having to have 3 issues in the can idea is still problematic from a money standpoint. Is Image provided advances to help keep things afloat in the meantime? I don't know. But it will create a barrier to many creators that won't be able to afford the months of work without some sales in return. I agree that it may possibly help them in the long run. Less delays equal happier fans equal (potentially) more sales in the long run. But that is still going to be a hard sell to some creators that won't have any cash flow coming in the help pay bills for months.

I not arguing if that is good or bad, just a likely reality. Maybe it will weed out that less dedicated creators and help the overall industry in the long run. Or maybe it will stifle entry into the market and reduce the creativity and potential of the industry. I don't know.

However, there is a big, big difference between your publisher having a known, set policy that you can plan around and fans demanding that you work for free to please their desires in a release schedule. If you know going in that you can't publish without issues completed, that is a reality you can plan for and know going into a deal with Image. An entitled fan claiming that a creator needs to work for no money for months just because they aren't getting issues as quickly as they want is a different issue.

And Walking Dead dying out? The singles are a top 10 or 15 seller at around 65,000 in the direct market. Every collected edition sells like hot cakes. There are tons of different merchandise, video games, beer, etc. The TV show is still the #1 show in the demographics. Universal Studios just opened a Walking Dead attraction in their theme park. Invincible is ending of it's own accord, but the thought that Walking Dead is dying out is without merit.

I meant dying out as in Kirkman is ending the series in the near future. Obviously, Invincible is done. But it's quite likely WD is done soon too. Kirkman has announced the conclusion of how he wants to end WD. Creators aren't gonna announce the conclusion of a series if they aren't interested in ending it in the near future.

Regarding the magazine, I have seen it suggested and shot down.

capuga said, "And the having to have 3 issues in the can idea is still problematic from a money standpoint. Is Image provided advances to help keep things afloat in the meantime? I don't know. But it will create a barrier to many creators that won't be able to afford the months of work without some sales in return. I agree that it may possibly help them in the long run. Less delays equal happier fans equal (potentially) more sales in the long run. But that is still going to be a hard sell to some creators that won't have any cash flow coming in the help pay bills for months.

I not arguing if that is good or bad, just a likely reality. Maybe it will weed out that less dedicated creators and help the overall industry in the long run. Or maybe it will stifle entry into the market and reduce the creativity and potential of the industry. I don't know."

You know, you're one of those fanboys who say, "They're industry professionals. They know more than you. So you shouldn't question their judgement." So shouldn't your response be, "Image are industry professionals. They know more than I do. So I shouldn't be questioning their judgement."?

capuga said, "However, there is a big, big difference between your publisher having a known, set policy that you can plan around and fans demanding that you work for free to please their desires in a release schedule. If you know going in that you can't publish without issues completed, that is a reality you can plan for and know going into a deal with Image. An entitled fan claiming that a creator needs to work for no money for months just because they aren't getting issues as quickly as they want is a different issue."

Who do you think they are implementing this policy for? Fans like you who argue against a deadline policy and similar measures? Or those of us entitled fans? Sneer at us "entitled fans" all you want but Image is obviously implementing it for us because they realize we can take our "entitled money" elsewhere. As a result, it means us "entitled fans" are far more important to them than fans like you are willing to admit.

[sven]

Can we please trade JFP to get Joker back? How many times are you going to beat this dead horse?

[JFP]

Can we please trade JFP to get Joker back? How many times are you going to beat this dead horse?

As I stated in another thread, part of the reason why this stuff is striking is whenever someone offers suggestion for Image to improve the sales of comics published by them, that poster receives a condescending and sarcastic reply. Something like, "They can't do that because it costs too much money and blah, blah, blah, they are industry professionals and you can't question them". Now, when Image are doing the exact same thing they said they couldn't do, the sycophant fanboys are like, "It's no big deal. Geez." Of course it was no big deal, it was merely a suggestion. The above-mentioned deadline policy thread was merely a suggestion from the OP, yet he was met with a condescending and sarcastic reply from several posters. For what? For question the all-mighty creators and their bank account. Now that Image are implementing a policy similar to something he suggested, these same sycophants are now saying, "It's not a big deal. Geez. Why are you beating a dead horse?"

This brings us to the second part: the comic book industry cannot move forward because a significant number of fanboys will back their creators over anything. Even if it is in everyone's best interest, the fanboys will back their creators. As a result, the creators get their heads gassed up, delude themselves many fanboys are on his side, and nothing improves for the better. In fact, things decrease as the years go by for the comic book industry.

The third part why this is a big deal: this kind of thing calls into question all the other things they said they couldn't do such as lowering the price. One reason Image Comics said they couldn't advertise for their comics is because it costs too much and they have little money. So where did they get the money to advertise new comics when apparently they didn't have the money years ago?

A question I have to ask is, "How come the 64-page magazine is $1.99 while the 20-something page comic published at Image costs $2.99, $3.50, or as much as $3.99? How come a 64-page magazine published by Image is as much as 50% less than a comic series with 1/3 of the number of pages? Haven't we been told they'd lose money selling a book with that many pages for so cheap?"

Sadly, most fanboys don't have the balls to question their masters *ahem* favorite creators. If they did, they question why they're expected to pay 50% more for a comic with 1/3rd of the number of pages in a 64-page magazine. Unfortunately, they get mad at the actual fans who are speaking out on things that are their best interest to question with stuff like, "You're beating a dead horse", "you expect your creator to work for free", and "you're entitled. The creator is underpaid but not underpaid enough where he can't attend all-expenses paid comic cons across the country where he sells his art for hundreds of dollars.".

Good job at getting mad at the paying customers who have the balls to express their opinion and want to see the industry improve.

[Dark-Flux]

They can afford to put a 64-page magazine out at $1.99 because;
a) its a preview book, so other than any original articles and interviews everything else is a reprint of material already being produced by 4+ different art teams for various projects. Its not like a single creative team is putting out 64 pages of material monthly.
b) as its just a preview book i doubt any of the creators whose work is showcased actually gets paid for contributing. Short of Adlard maybe for his original WD strip. Though even then he may just be getting his usual page rate from Kirkman. The magazine profits most likley go straight to Image Central and the creators get their work showcased.

Ive also heard nothing of WD ending anytime soon. Kirkmans said he's known the ending since he launched the book. Doesnt mean anything.

[JFP]

They can afford to put a 64-page magazine out at $1.99 because;
a) its a preview book, so other than any original articles and interviews everything else is a reprint of material already being produced by 4+ different art teams for various projects. Its not like a single creative team is putting out 64 pages of material monthly.
b) as its just a preview book i doubt any of the creators whose work is showcased actually gets paid for contributing. Short of Adlard maybe for his original WD strip. Though even then he may just be getting his usual page rate from Kirkman. The magazine profits most likley go straight to Image Central and the creators get their work showcased.

Ive also heard nothing of WD ending anytime soon. Kirkmans said he's known the ending since he launched the book. Doesnt mean anything.

Let's look at the number of people who are putting the book together:
--the money spent on illustrators like Adlard for the Negan backstory
--the money spent on Branding Manager David Brothers who is in charge of it
--the money spent on Sales and Marketing Designer Sasha Head
--the money spent on arts and designers on the layout
--the money spent on writers to write the preview content
--the money spent on printers as well as the extra pages
--the money spent on interviews for industry professionals
--the money spent on articles from industry industry professionals

There are more people involved with this magazine then there are for the typical Image Comic. Do you think they are working for free?

There are more expenses for this magazine than there is for the typical Image Comic. Yet it's cheaper. Why am I the only one who thinks this doesn't add up?

[capuga]

Let's look at the number of people who are putting the book together:
--the money spent on illustrators like Adlard for the Negan backstory
--the money spent on Branding Manager David Brothers who is in charge of it
--the money spent on Sales and Marketing Designer Sasha Head
--the money spent on arts and designers on the layout
--the money spent on writers to write the preview content
--the money spent on printers as well as the extra pages
--the money spent on interviews for industry professionals
--the money spent on articles from industry industry professionals

There are more people involved with this magazine then there are for the typical Image Comic. Do you think they are working for free?

There are more expenses for this magazine than there is for the typical Image Comic. Yet it's cheaper. Why am I the only one who thinks this doesn't add up?

The Image employees are already getting paid. This is just them doing their job. Interviews cost nothing. Previews are not paid for by Image. They are just showcasing work already produced by comics in production. They almost certainly aren't paying Adlard. He and Kirkman are likely offering their content as goodwill or promotion since they can afford to do so. Their only cost that isn't getting paid anyway is the printing, which is likely why they are charging for this at all now. And even that is probably just using their already expected advertising budget. Staff salaries and advertising is mostly what the fees Image takes from creators is expected to be used for (their model intends for Image Central to be a break even entity). So, no, I don't question at all why the magazine is cheaper than a comic.

[JFP]

The Image employees are already getting paid. This is just them doing their job. Interviews cost nothing. Previews are not paid for by Image. They are just showcasing work already produced by comics in production. They almost certainly aren't paying Adlard. He and Kirkman are likely offering their content as goodwill or promotion since they can afford to do so. Their only cost that isn't getting paid anyway is the printing, which is likely why they are charging for this at all now. And even that is probably just using their already expected advertising budget. Staff salaries and advertising is mostly what the fees Image takes from creators is expected to be used for (their model intends for Image Central to be a break even entity). So, no, I don't question at all why the magazine is cheaper than a comic.

I don't expect a fan who is of the "we shouldn't question industry professionals" mentality to question things. I was hoping the fans who actually are willing to express their opinions to show up.

The CBR write up for this said the following, "The magazine is said to “feature Image’s upcoming releases, as well as bonus creator-owned comics content,” and they’ve got high-profile content at launch. Each of the first 12 issues will include a four-page “Walking Dead” story by the series creative team of writer Robert Kirkman and artist Charlie Adlard, involving the origins of notorious antagonist Negan and totaling 48 pages of story — equivalent to slightly more than two typical single issue comics.

Each issue will be 64 pages, and include “exclusive interviews, spotlight features, bonus never-before-seen preview pages, editorials from industry voices, and more in-depth, insightful and provocative comics coverage,” curated by Image Comics Branding Manager David Brothers."

http://www.cbr.com/image-unveils-ima...-origin-story/

Therefore, when the Negan backstory ends, who are they gonna get to write the new bonus creator-owned content? Are they always gonna rely on Kirkman/Adlard? How many other creators can they get who are willing to put out 48 pages for goodwill and promotion and no money? Are the exclusive editorials from industry professionals who don't work for Image gonna be done for free as well?

Plus, as I asked before, why do they have money to do this now, when for years Image insisted they didn't have the money for this kind of thing?

[Bor]

Again, these dudes are implementing the type of **** fans have been suggesting for years. For years, fans have suggested directly to the Image people that they take a hand in promoting the comics published by them, like having a magazine. But it's always been "that goes against the creator-owned concept". Now, earlier this year, when they made a magazine, they apparently feel it doesn't go against creator-owned concepts.

Fans have also been suggesting that Image creators have some issues completed before putting a new book out. We get the usual "it goes against creator-owned concept". Now, lo and behold, they are doing another thing fans have suggested for more years. This is the kinda stuff we were talking about in that "should image enforce a deadline policy" thread:

http://community.comicbookresources....ually-come-out

Having 3 issues in the can before starting out a new book is something we were interested in seeing, where guys like capuga, Bor, and other posters were whining, "How is the creator supposed to make money during that time? Do you think it's good he loses money?"

When the magazine came out, a whole bunch of fanboys who had previously said something like that is a stupid idea did a 180 and said that was a brilliant idea. How much do you wanna bet that all the fanboys who previously said "having 3 issues before publishing is a stupid idea" are now gonna call it a brilliant idea?

Fanboys come in three categories:
1. Those who are willing to speak their mind.
2. Those who are more or less passive.
3. Those who are spineless sycophants who parrot anything the creators say. If creators say, "making sure you have 3 issues done before publishing is a stupid idea" then those sycophants will say, "Yeah, it's stupid idea! How can you guys doubt what the creators are saying? They are industry professionals. You're not." Then when the creators say, "I think we'll make sure to have 3 issues out before publishing after all," those fanboys will say, "That's an absolutely brilliant idea. It's so smart of you guys to think of this idea."

This is the reason why the comic book industry can't move forward. The creators let their heads get gassed up from their lapdogs, excuse me, fanboys and then they feel no reason to listen to criticism, even when they see it costs them sales.

I have to wonder why Image is imposing this **** now after customers have been suggesting this for more than a decade. My guess is with Walking Dead and Invincible dying out, they have lost their flagship titles that have done tremendous things to keep them relevant. With those two books gone soon, they realize they are stuck with a whole bunch of uncertain titles that might not come out on time. So they have to do something to kick it up a notch as a way to find solutions to get books that will take the place of Invincible and WD.

No we "whined" that poster in that thread does not to seem to understand how buissness Works. Not only that but many in that thread do not seem to understand the difference between ongoing and monthly. None of us ever said that they should not try and get comics on out time, but that a break between arcs, which so far this rule does not seem to go against, can be nesesarry to ensure that the creator actuallly are able to pay their rent and feed their families. The argument in that thread was that almost all creators delays happens because creators felt bored with the comics they were doing for Image which I still maintain is stupid. Some do perhaps, but saying that all do is ignoring the way Image publishing is put together. If any actual whining is to be found in that other thread it is from people who think their need for a comic is bigger then the creators need to survive. None of that changes with this new rule. In that other thread I maintained that if you know in advance you might have to do a break either do a bi-monthly book, as in every other month, or do like saga with planned breaks between arcs.

[Dark-Flux]

I don't expect a fan who is of the "we shouldn't question industry professionals" mentality to question things. I was hoping the fans who actually are willing to express their opinions to show up.

The CBR write up for this said the following, "The magazine is said to “feature Image’s upcoming releases, as well as bonus creator-owned comics content,” and they’ve got high-profile content at launch. Each of the first 12 issues will include a four-page “Walking Dead” story by the series creative team of writer Robert Kirkman and artist Charlie Adlard, involving the origins of notorious antagonist Negan and totaling 48 pages of story — equivalent to slightly more than two typical single issue comics.

Each issue will be 64 pages, and include “exclusive interviews, spotlight features, bonus never-before-seen preview pages, editorials from industry voices, and more in-depth, insightful and provocative comics coverage,” curated by Image Comics Branding Manager David Brothers."

http://www.cbr.com/image-unveils-ima...-origin-story/

Therefore, when the Negan backstory ends, who are they gonna get to write the new bonus creator-owned content? Are they always gonna rely on Kirkman/Adlard? How many other creators can they get who are willing to put out 48 pages for goodwill and promotion and no money? Are the exclusive editorials from industry professionals who don't work for Image gonna be done for free as well?

Plus, as I asked before, why do they have money to do this now, when for years Image insisted they didn't have the money for this kind of thing?

I mean, Capuga is most likely right about all of that. Youre just discounting his answer because it dispels your complaints.

Presumable yes, a new bonus comic will replace the WD strip after #12. Maybe they work for free, maybe they get a small cut, maybe if its work for hire they just get their standard rate from the creator. Its not something we as consumers are privy to.

As for being able to afford to put it out; presumably the returns outway the costs. As Capuga said, the Image staff get paid salaries which is the sum of the cut they take from comic sales.
Regular advertising is something that must be paid for, and in itself reaps no monetary return. A magazine like this has a price point for the consumer and so i assume covers its own costs. At least for now.