How would you react if Joker being Red Hood was retconned?

[Castiel]

Something that has never been touched on is that so many believe Joker is the Red Hood but what if he isn't? What if he and Batman never met until he became the Joker? I think this would be a good twist especially if they just wanted to add more mystery to Joker's origins. Like a construction crew is tearing down the chemical plant where Joker became Joker and while working they discover a corpse lodged/stuck in the drain and the corpse is discovered to belong to Red Hood but at the same time there's no real difinitive evidence it is the Red Hood other than the location of discovery.

After investigating it's discovered by Batman that the same night a witness to a mob hit disapearred and he further discovers that the mob tossed said witness into the same vat of chemicals and left literally right before the Red Hood gang and Batman showed up. The reason I think this would make a good story because Batman is viewed as a dark crusader who protects the innocent so I think it would be interesting to see him react to learning that if he hadn't failed to save someone by mere minutes and that had he only been a little faster he could have saved an innocent person and prevented the creation of one of his greatest enemies.

Now I know a lot would get mad and say it would erase a pivotal moment in Batman's history but really it wouldn't. Especially if this knew origin was tied in with the Killing Joke and right after said witness went into the chemicals the mob murdered his family something else that Batman also could have prevented. I think this would be a good revelation for Batman to face especially if it was shown from Joker's or the witness's perspective via a flash back that Batman makes Gotham worse (like Batman's actions were the catalyst that led to what happened) however at the same time Batman woudn't be able to prove if this is Joker's origins because the body found in the drain would be unidentifiable and nothing conclusive could be proven basically implying said body could be the Red Hood or the witness making Joker's origins even more mysterious.

I got the idea after watching this.

[JBatmanFan05]

How would you react if Joker being Red Hood was retconned?

I'd be very angry. Given that was created by Batman & Joker's very co-creator (Bill Finger, who is said to have had the most influence on Joker's creation).

What if he and Batman never met until he became the Joker? I think this would be a good twist especially if they just wanted to add more mystery to Joker's origins.

Plenty of mystery already. And nothing really changes. Batman & Joker never met before Red Hood (one can presume), one can have that, and that's like the same thing.

The reason I think this would make a good story because Batman is viewed as a dark crusader who protects the innocent so I think it would be interesting to see him react to learning that if he hadn't failed to save someone by mere minutes and that had he only been a little faster he could have saved an innocent person and prevented the creation of one of his greatest enemies.

Pretty silly reason given that Batman could already react to wondering what might have happened if he prevented Joker Red Hood from falling in that vat and becoming his greatest enemy. And we don't know how innocent or not Joker Red Hood was...the Killing Joke version of Red Hood Joker seemed very innocent, nearly forced into that hood.

[Coal Tiger]

Now that there's 3 Jokers, not all of them were the Red Hood.

[byrd156]

I'd be very angry. Given that was created by Batman & Joker's very co-creator (Bill Finger, who is said to have had the most influence on Joker's creation).


Plenty of mystery already. And nothing really changes. Batman & Joker never met before Red Hood (one can presume), one can have that, and that's like the same thing.


Pretty silly reason given that Batman could already react to wondering what might have happened if he prevented Joker Red Hood from falling in that vat and becoming his greatest enemy. And we don't know how innoncent or not Joker Red Hood was...the Killing Joke version of Red Hood Joker seemed very innocent, nearly forced into that hood.

Yeah I agree with this.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

The Joker's past as Red Hood is so ingrained within the character that is impossible to separate from it. Not only is part of Jason's persona but they've gone so far as to downright admit that yes, the Joker was the Red Hood in Zero Year.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Question for the OP: Why are you so obsessed with ret-conning established points of history and/or character traits, usually just to make the DC Universe and its characters more like some television show or stupid anime that you then always provide a Youtube link to? Do you honesty believe that DC comics and its characters need to be more like certain television shows or stupid anime cartoons? Are you incapable of coming up with ideas that 1) aren't inspired by other media, and 2) don't involve changing known, established history and traits into something else?

Seriously. I would really like an answer.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

Retcons should be used only for things that are too ridiculous to have really happened or are really OOC. The Red Hood is spawned from the Joker and the Killing Joke and UTRH solidified its status so to remove Joker from it makes the reasoning behind Jason taking on the Mantle completely foolish just like removing Dick Grayson's history with the Titans/Superman and still calling him Nightwing was foolish and hurt the character before Grayson and Rebirth put things back into place.

[Buried Alien]

While Joker's stint as the Red Hood has been a part of his mythos since the very beginning, until relatively recently, it was never something that was emphasized or referred to very often. From the Adam West BATMAN TV series to SUPERFRIENDS to various other animated treatments in the 1970s and 1980s to the Michael Keaton BATMAN movie of 1989 to the comic books up to the 1990s, it was very easy to forget or overlook Joker's Red Hood past simply because it was so infrequently mentioned. That hasn't been the case in more recent years, especially since Jason Todd revived the Red Hood identity after his resurrection, but for years and years, it was very easy to overlook that the Joker ever even had a past as the Red Hood.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[JBatmanFan05]

it was never something that was emphasized or referred to very often. From the...to the comic books up to the 1990s, it was very easy to forget or overlook Joker's Red Hood past simply because it was so infrequently mentioned.

Easy to forget or overlook the HUGE 1988 release called The Killing Joke, or Woflman & Aparo's big Joker return after Death in the Fam in Batman #450-451 (where Joker puts the hood back on to commit crimes and regain his confidence)? Hmmm. Can't agree at all. Not to mention Michael Fleisher's 1976 Batman Encyclopedia & Who's Who & issues & collections that reprinted the old Silver Age story.

[dan12456]

I've never felt like it adds anything to the Joker. I also think the "Batman created the Joker" is more interesting as an abstract idea rather than him physically creating him. In my head canon I tend to pretend Joker never was Red Hood unless its relevant to the particular story I'm reading.

[JBatmanFan05]

I've never felt like it adds anything to the Joker. I also think the "Batman created the Joker" is more interesting as an abstract idea rather than him physically creating him. In my head canon I tend to pretend Joker never was Red Hood unless its relevant to the particular story I'm reading.

Actually, the original version (and like all versions) didn't have Batman at fault...Red Hood jumped in when he didn't have to (could have accepted being caught).
https://40.media.tumblr.com/71571887...t1mvlx_500.jpg

Early 80s or 90s retelling here? (I think so)
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20150324022035

Joker created himself, with his choices. At the most, Batman who did no wrong, all he could say to himself perhaps is: I didn't really have a chance at saving him from the fall, but what if I did this or that and I somehow could have.

[L0ki]

Now that there's 3 Jokers, not all of them were the Red Hood.

I'm still blown away that there's 3 Jokers.

I collect the TPB's and HC's, so I'm still waiting for the Rebirth to come out but damn...

it just sounds so cheezy. People are spouting how awesome Rebirth is and reading up on all the back story and the lead ins and I gotta say, it reads as cheezy as it sounds so far.

It would have been cool if John's writing/creative direction were, not necessarily Blackest Night quality, but at least in the area.

He hasn't been doing solid writing or creativity for a while now.

The only thing more lame would be if the 3 Jokers are all in cahoots and took separate turns playing Red Hood.

[GigiFusc]

I love the idea that the Joker's origin is never 100% confirmed.

"Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice! Ha ha ha!"
Joker
The Killing Joke

[neonrideraryeh]

I love the idea that the Joker's origin is never 100% confirmed.

"Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice! Ha ha ha!"
Joker
The Killing Joke

I felt that meant that the base origin was the same (being the red hood and falling into the vat) but the details were different rather than wildly different origin stories. Slightly different each time.

Although with three Jokers now, we can have three origins. One could be the zero year already a villain red hood. Another could be the not evil guy who turned crazy killing joke red hood. The third, some other variation.

[GigiFusc]

I felt that meant that the base origin was the same (being the red hood and falling into the vat) but the details were different rather than wildly different origin stories. Slightly different each time.

Although with three Jokers now, we can have three origins. One could be the zero year already a villain red hood. Another could be the not evil guy who turned crazy killing joke red hood. The third, some other variation.

Well, yeh. That's the idea. We can have those three. Or we can have none. Or we can have something completely different. If it were up to me, we'd get a different story every time he told it. One of the many great things about Heath Ledger's Joker in Dark Knight was how he changed his story each time when he asked 'You wanna know how I got these scars?'

It just adds to the crazy IMO.