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  1. #16
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    it never made sense for batman not able to find out the joker true identity and his failure casts doubts on him being the world's greatest detective so now we have immortal joker and the joker triplets great retcon. it would have made more sense for joker not being the Red hood but letting people assume so rather than the current silly retcon. I mean would a joker let others cut in on his action ? it's a totally absurd scenario which tries to introduce alien elements in the jokers story.

  2. #17
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    The 3 Jokers thing isn't a retcon, it's just a multiverse thing. Those 3 very likely will go back to one.
    Things I love: Batman, Superman, AEW, old films, Lovecraft

    Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”

  3. #18
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    still a retcon as we had only one joker in the canon who never met the other versions of him and it presumes there meeting and operating together or independently which last is hard to swallow as no joker is going to sit idle. the most likely explanation is that they have survived due to convergence which makes it a retcon.

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Castiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    it never made sense for batman not able to find out the joker true identity and his failure casts doubts on him being the world's greatest detective so now we have immortal joker and the joker triplets great retcon. it would have made more sense for joker not being the Red hood but letting people assume so rather than the current silly retcon. I mean would a joker let others cut in on his action ? it's a totally absurd scenario which tries to introduce alien elements in the jokers story.
    True which is why I feel like casting doubt on Joker being Red Hood would be a good twist because it would mean Batman has possibly been looking in the wrong direction and asking the wrong questions. Not because he was a bad dectective but because he had the wrong leads. Besides Joker was originally a mobster not the Red Hood his past has been changed so much it hardly matters if a little doubt gets thrown in in regards to him being Red Hood.
    Last edited by Castiel; 08-31-2016 at 01:57 AM.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
    True which is why I feel like casting doubt on Joker being Red Hood would be a good twist because it would mean Batman has possibly been looking in the wrong direction and asking the wrong questions. Not because he was a bad dectective but because he had the wrong leads. Besides Joker was originally a mobster not the Red Hood his past has been changed so much it hardly matters if a little doubt gets thrown in in regards to him being Red Hood.
    Here's the issue with that, the red hood character plays a huge part in the evolution of the Joker's character. It's also going to be hard to find out who the Joker really is, even for the worlds greatest detective if his past is hard to remember by himself, and if it's true that the Alan Moore origin of the Joker is the true modern version of him, then he never prior to that date and time got into trouble so no finger prints or criminal records. On top of that Joker Always wears gloves, so you can't ever see what his finger prints are to begin with.

    Casting doubt on it would only make things more confusing over all because it would really screw over Bill, Jerry and Bob's work on the early version of the Joker, and then later screw with Alan and A.J. Liberman's work on crafting a very sympathetic Joker (honestly I thought that AJ's Gotham Knights 54 version of the Killing Joke was a lot stronger then the backstory we got in the Killing Joke itself at points), and that would just be sad. There is a Joker right now that wasn't the Red hood at all, the third one which probably is the New 52 version who's probably Albert "Alby" Striker of the Chemical Syndicate retelling since, at the end, we see a white hand come out of the vat. Alby was never the Red hood at all. So I don't think Batman ever was asking the wrong question I just don't think he had any evidence at all to begin with. If he got his hand on the photo album that Joker has in GK 54 there's no doubt he would figure out who the Joker was and use it against him to maybe get him to let him help him. But that's not about to happen because DCs to nervous about giving the Joker any form of true origin.

    Joker was a criminal mobster who was the red hood first. He started off with that gimmick because he didn't want people to identify him. Then when he tried to rob Monarch playing cards, he got turned into the Joker because he was trying to escape being caught. He actually wasn't insane at all until they changed that up in the bronze age in the 70s and later into the 80s. Prior to that he was just a jerk robber who had the clown look. Nothing to overly shocking, heck he even went good for a while and actually went by the name of Ed Smith for a moment or two when he hit his head. The reason the Red hood sticks around is because of the fact that it was the origin that the first trio came up with, and Alan didn't want to tamper with that when he was making the Killing Joke. The only reason we got weird Mobster Joker for BtAs was because of the movie where Burton wanted to tie in Joker to Bruce via the Joe Chill moment. Outside of that, yeah, every version has had in one way or another the red hood aspect to it. So altering that would remove an element from Joker. It's like taking out the idea of Batman seeing a bat for the first time, you can't do that without causing a whole host of wtf questions to crop up.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Here's the issue with that, the red hood character plays a huge part in the evolution of the Joker's character. It's also going to be hard to find out who the Joker really is, even for the worlds greatest detective if his past is hard to remember by himself, and if it's true that the Alan Moore origin of the Joker is the true modern version of him, then he never prior to that date and time got into trouble so no finger prints or criminal records. On top of that Joker Always wears gloves, so you can't ever see what his finger prints are to begin with.

    Casting doubt on it would only make things more confusing over all because it would really screw over Bill, Jerry and Bob's work on the early version of the Joker, and then later screw with Alan and A.J. Liberman's work on crafting a very sympathetic Joker (honestly I thought that AJ's Gotham Knights 54 version of the Killing Joke was a lot stronger then the backstory we got in the Killing Joke itself at points), and that would just be sad. There is a Joker right now that wasn't the Red hood at all, the third one which probably is the New 52 version who's probably Albert "Alby" Striker of the Chemical Syndicate retelling since, at the end, we see a white hand come out of the vat. Alby was never the Red hood at all. So I don't think Batman ever was asking the wrong question I just don't think he had any evidence at all to begin with. If he got his hand on the photo album that Joker has in GK 54 there's no doubt he would figure out who the Joker was and use it against him to maybe get him to let him help him. But that's not about to happen because DCs to nervous about giving the Joker any form of true origin.

    Joker was a criminal mobster who was the red hood first. He started off with that gimmick because he didn't want people to identify him. Then when he tried to rob Monarch playing cards, he got turned into the Joker because he was trying to escape being caught. He actually wasn't insane at all until they changed that up in the bronze age in the 70s and later into the 80s. Prior to that he was just a jerk robber who had the clown look. Nothing to overly shocking, heck he even went good for a while and actually went by the name of Ed Smith for a moment or two when he hit his head. The reason the Red hood sticks around is because of the fact that it was the origin that the first trio came up with, and Alan didn't want to tamper with that when he was making the Killing Joke. The only reason we got weird Mobster Joker for BtAs was because of the movie where Burton wanted to tie in Joker to Bruce via the Joe Chill moment. Outside of that, yeah, every version has had in one way or another the red hood aspect to it. So altering that would remove an element from Joker. It's like taking out the idea of Batman seeing a bat for the first time, you can't do that without causing a whole host of wtf questions to crop up.
    he has been caught by batman plenty of times and so he has had ample opportunity to take finger prints and DNA samples from him for comparison. next he could have tried to trace the movements of the red hood gang by questioning witnesses and find out who were the former employees of the plant who they could have forced to work with them and find if they have gone missing. there are other possible avenues of investigating I may be missing but it is unbelievable he could not track a amateur criminal and it seems he just wasn't bothered about it at the time

  7. #22
    Incredible Member SicariiDC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    The Joker's past as Red Hood is so ingrained within the character that is impossible to separate from it. Not only is part of Jason's persona but they've gone so far as to downright admit that yes, the Joker was the Red Hood in Zero Year.
    Hmm, I thought a diff dude was the actual red hood, joker was just part of the gang. Or maybe I'm an idiot and remembering it wrong. I found that part of the story kind of convoluted
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SicariiDC View Post
    Hmm, I thought a diff dude was the actual red hood, joker was just part of the gang. Or maybe I'm an idiot and remembering it wrong. I found that part of the story kind of convoluted
    Actually the joker was originally the Red hood and and Alan Moore retconed it to the joker being conned by the gang to wear it to show the joker in a more sympathetic light

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