View Poll Results: whats up with Superman ?

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • bad story telling ?

    32 74.42%
  • bad casting

    1 2.33%
  • not following the comics ?

    10 23.26%
Page 5 of 25 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 371
  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,084

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    He smiled with his mother, at some people at the bar he was working in during MoS, at General Swanick, upon learning his Kryptonian name while talking to hologram!Jor-El, and when he was learning to fly. Pretty sure he was smiling when he rescued that Mexican girl from the burning building before the fawning crowds started to make him uneasy.

    I do agree that the next movie needs to cut the BS and make him the fully formed Superman once and for all so that the director for the MoS sequel doesn't have to deal with it, though.
    I should have specified that I was talking about his portrayal in BvS. MOS was much better at portraying the character. BvS felt like an involution.
    "By force of will he turns his gaze upon the seething horror bellow us on the hillside.
    Yes, he feels the icy touch of fear, but he is not cowed. He is Superman!"

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Francisco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,084

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    a good example would be the final two eps of STAS. supes gets kidnapped by darkseid, brainwashed into thinking he's his son, and turned on earth at the head of a invading army. at the end, the world has lost trust in superman because, despite the fact that he was brainwashed, he still turned against them and that scares them. he spent a long time trying to get the world to trust him again and they did, for the most part. but just look at dr. hamilton for this. he was once superman's closest ally, next to lois and dan turpin. after that whole mess, not only did he fear superman, he worked actively with cadmus to bring him down, along with the league, simply because they saw him a threat.
    I think they did a bit of character assassination with Henderson. I get it he was afraid but the things he did like cloning Supergirl and turning said clone into a living weapon. He should've know better.
    "By force of will he turns his gaze upon the seething horror bellow us on the hillside.
    Yes, he feels the icy touch of fear, but he is not cowed. He is Superman!"

  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,429

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    I should have specified that I was talking about his portrayal in BvS. MOS was much better at portraying the character. BvS felt like an involution.
    Fair enough. I can't say I disagree with wanting to see him smile more (and definitely for Cavill to have more lines, though the UC helped with this), but I also can't say the film wasn't internally consistent with its tone in that regard. There wasn't much for any character to be smiling about. Hopefully the alleged lighter tone of JL and beyond will solve that.

  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    a good example would be the final two eps of STAS. supes gets kidnapped by darkseid, brainwashed into thinking he's his son, and turned on earth at the head of a invading army. at the end, the world has lost trust in superman because, despite the fact that he was brainwashed, he still turned against them and that scares them. he spent a long time trying to get the world to trust him again and they did, for the most part. but just look at dr. hamilton for this. he was once superman's closest ally, next to lois and dan turpin. after that whole mess, not only did he fear superman, he worked actively with cadmus to bring him down, along with the league, simply because they saw him a threat.
    Exactly. That's a great example.

    Superman has to work to gain the world's trust and he has to work to maintain it once he has it. If he loses it? It'll be a Hell of an uphill battle for him to regain it. It can be done, but it will not and should not be easy. The idea that he can, in any way, turn his powers against the people of the world would terrify them beyond all measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    I think they did a bit of character assassination with Henderson. I get it he was afraid but the things he did like cloning Supergirl and turning said clone into a living weapon. He should've know better.
    Fear is an inherently irrational emotion.

    I don't think it's ever character assassination when a character takes an action out of fear, because by definition he/she is not in a rational state of mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Fair enough. I can't say I disagree with wanting to see him smile more (and definitely for Cavill to have more lines, though the UC helped with this), but I also can't say the film wasn't internally consistent with its tone in that regard. There wasn't much for any character to be smiling about. Hopefully the alleged lighter tone of JL and beyond will solve that.
    Totally agree.

    I was onboard with the idea of Superman on a journey, but I can understand people's arguments that BvS went too far with the darkness. If Snyder is to be believed, however, BvS was supposed to be the darkest moment before the dawn, and Justice League is where the lights finally start to turn back on.

    I really hope they deliver on that next year. Not only do they have some trust-building to do with the people who were NOT enamored with their approach to these movies, but I myself am ready to see things brighten up as well. I think asking me to wait for two movies is an acceptable wait time, but now that the third act is upon us, it's time to reward everyone for their patience.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,429

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Totally agree.

    I was onboard with the idea of Superman on a journey, but I can understand people's arguments that BvS went too far with the darkness. If Snyder is to be believed, however, BvS was supposed to be the darkest moment before the dawn, and Justice League is where the lights finally start to turn back on.
    Y'know, Empire Strikes Back wasn't very well received when it first came out due to how dark it was compared to the first, but once everyone saw Jedi and saw how the story concluded in a lighter, redemptive way, the perception of the second film changed and now it's regarded as a classic.

    I definitely don't think BvS will ever achieve the status Empire has because the main problem was the butchered theatrical cut and it's still hardly a masterpiece, but if JL concludes the story in a way similar to Jedi, maybe it's reputation will become less toxic. The darker middle chapter of a trilogy usually becomes more bearable once the whole thing is concluded and a happy(ish) ending is assured.

  6. #66
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Y'know, Empire Strikes Back wasn't very well received when it first came out due to how dark it was compared to the first, but once everyone saw Jedi and saw how the story concluded in a lighter, redemptive way, the perception of the second film changed and now it's regarded as a classic.

    I definitely don't think BvS will ever achieve the status Empire has because the main problem was the butchered theatrical cut and it's still hardly a masterpiece, but if JL concludes the story in a way similar to Jedi, maybe it's reputation will become less toxic. The darker middle chapter of a trilogy usually becomes more bearable once the whole thing is concluded and a happy(ish) ending is assured.
    That's a good point.

    And yeah, I doubt BvS will ever achieve Empire status either. Empire is widely regarded as the single best movie of the Star Wars franchise to date. I kinda doubt BvS will ever reach that level. Still, you're right. People's opinions toward it may just soften a bit if Justice League turns out to be a good payoff.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  7. #67

    Default

    Might also have something to do with Cavill. When Reeves smiled it seemed sincere, when Cavill smiles it looks smug or serial-killery.

  8. #68
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Memphis
    Posts
    6,648

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unholyrevenger72 View Post
    BvS is Superman's Movie. the same way X-men 1 through 3 are called X-men but are Wolverine Movies.
    It was a Batman movie. It was called Batman v Superman. Not Superman v Batman. It was basically a rehash of The Dark Knight Returns, a Batman story.

    This is some epic bullshit.
    MoS made 668, Returns made 391. Adjusted for inflation, apparently MoS just barely beat Return by minuscule 217 million dollar margin.
    Who said anything about Superman Returns? Can you deny that Superman and Superman II both made more money, adjusted for inflation?

  9. #69
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    589

    Default

    Zack Snyder doesn't understand the character(He doesn't understand the other characters either, but that's besides the point), and has said that he's not a fan of Superman.

  10. #70
    Amazing Member YounG03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    52

    Default

    Parts of that scene I don't member

  11. #71
    Incredible Member Powertool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Will Hatch View Post
    Zack Snyder doesn't understand the character(He doesn't understand the other characters either, but that's besides the point), and has said that he's not a fan of Superman.
    In real life he said the opposite, that Superman is actually his favourite character, but whatever, I shouldn't be surprised by this kind of stance in a thread where the topical question leaves very little wiggling room to the dissenters.

    And God, how I love his misinterpretation of characters. Much more palatable to me than all the dissertations I've ever read in this and other threads on the pure form of the characters, authored by the self-appointed "true fans".
    Last edited by Powertool; 09-01-2016 at 09:30 AM.

  12. #72
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post

    Smallville also featured a flawed Clark Kent who had his moments of depression and despair. He also went on a journey to become Superman and wasn't the perfect Superman throughout the show.

    How many seasons did Smallville last, again? Oh, yeah. TEN. And it could've easily gone longer, if the showrunners hadn't simply decided that it was time to end it.
    Moments of depression and despair. Not half the time.

    Plus he had other characters there to lighten things up. BVS has... psychotic Batman.


    [seems like days]To you.
    I count myself lucky. My son thought it was more like weeks.



    I found it very fun watching Superman throw down with a maniacal general...
    For 30 seconds, right after Jimmy Olsen gets shot in the head.

    ...standing up to a borderline insane Batman for the people of Gotham, saving Lex Luthor from his own monster, and slugging it out with Doomsday.
    And if that was the bulk of the movie, that would be fine. Sadly you have to wade HOURS of pain and angst and stories about drowning horses that illustrate the world will always be crappy no matter what you do before you get to that.

    If Wonder Woman weren't in the last 45 minutes it wouldn't even be worth it.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  13. #73
    BANNED Midvillian1322's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    7,905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Exactly. That's a great example.

    Superman has to work to gain the world's trust and he has to work to maintain it once he has it. If he loses it? It'll be a Hell of an uphill battle for him to regain it. It can be done, but it will not and should not be easy. The idea that he can, in any way, turn his powers against the people of the world would terrify them beyond all measure.



    Fear is an inherently irrational emotion.

    I don't think it's ever character assassination when a character takes an action out of fear, because by definition he/she is not in a rational state of mind.



    Totally agree.

    I was onboard with the idea of Superman on a journey, but I can understand people's arguments that BvS went too far with the darkness. If Snyder is to be believed, however, BvS was supposed to be the darkest moment before the dawn, and Justice League is where the lights finally start to turn back on.

    I really hope they deliver on that next year. Not only do they have some trust-building to do with the people who were NOT enamored with their approach to these movies, but I myself am ready to see things brighten up as well. I think asking me to wait for two movies is an acceptable wait time, but now that the third act is upon us, it's time to reward everyone for their patience.
    Fear is only irrational in phobias. Fear in general is a an important part of evolution and very rational. Not that its important just saying.

    I think its now or never for me with superman, canvill has a good (brighter) superman in him imo. But if we get another dark movie with superman in it i might have to give up on canvills superman. So unless hes brainwashed and controlled by Darkseid the next time we see him in JL I hope hes more sure of himself and less conflicted.

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    8,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Moments of depression and despair. Not half the time.

    Plus he had other characters there to lighten things up. BVS has... psychotic Batman.
    Once again, you're comparing a show with hundreds of hours of screentime with a movie that had two and a half in theaters. And not all of those two and a half hours were dedicated to Superman. Smallville still had some very dark periods. Heck, they had a few whole SEASONS that were pretty dark.

    Other characters? Her name is Lois "I'm So Awesome" Lane. Granted, they cut a lot of her good stuff in the movie too. But she was still a high point.

    I count myself lucky. My son thought it was more like weeks.
    The hyperbole is strong with this one.

    For 30 seconds, right after Jimmy Olsen gets shot in the head.
    I was talking about the fight with Zod, but whatever.

    And that wasn't Jimmy Olsen. Snyder can say whatever he wants. CIA Agents DO NOT use their real names while under cover.

    And if that was the bulk of the movie, that would be fine. Sadly you have to wade HOURS of pain and angst and stories about drowning horses that illustrate the world will always be crappy no matter what you do before you get to that.
    That was your takeaway from the horse story? That explains a lot. My takeaway was that your actions have consequences and if a farmer trying to save his farm can cause so much devastation without meaning to, then a godlike being has to be FAR more cautious when deciding his course of action.

    You're also leaving out bathtub lovemaking, calls to his mom, Alfred's quips, and Diana making Bruce look like a drooling idiot (TWICE!)

    If Wonder Woman weren't in the last 45 minutes it wouldn't even be worth it.
    Just so we're clear? The VAST majority of Superman's most iconic stories also involve a lot of pain, angst and moral struggle. Batman stories? Even more so. So maybe you went into this movie with a completely unreasonable set of expectations? Particularly given that we were told THREE YEARS AGO that this was Superman on a journey and not Superman as you think he should be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Fear is only irrational in phobias. Fear in general is a an important part of evolution and very rational. Not that its important just saying.
    True enough. But it DOES tend to incite people toward irrational behavior and can make people act atypically.

    I think its now or never for me with superman, canvill has a good (brighter) superman in him imo. But if we get another dark movie with superman in it i might have to give up on canvills superman. So unless hes brainwashed and controlled by Darkseid the next time we see him in JL I hope hes more sure of himself and less conflicted.
    I understand that and I respect it.

    I personally will be VERY hard-pressed to continue my interest in these movies if they don't deliver as well. As I've said, I can be very patient when waiting for a payoff. But once it's time to deliver that payoff? It better be a payoff that makes me think "Yeah, this was totally worth it."

    I'm thinking Superman's death will somehow change him as you say. If I were writing this thing, I'd write it so Superman doesn't have TIME to feel conflicted. Steppenwolf is close to victory. The world needs him. RIGHT NOW. No time for navel-gazing. This is a job for Superman.

    As for making him more positive? I would write it to say that his death taught him just how precious life really is and that he needs to enjoy every minute of it. Personally, I'll be very disappointed if the last, or one of the last, scenes in the movie isn't him blasting off into the sky with a big ol' grin on his face and a general attitude of "Time to go to work!"
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  15. #75
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Will Hatch View Post
    and has said that he's not a fan of Superman.
    And you'd be wrong about that.

    http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/zac...o-is-superman/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •