why is superman in the movies so depressed , boring and nothing like the superman we know and love in the comic books ?

[Francisco]

@Vanguard

Sry on phone too hard to quote just certain parts.

Yes fear is rational, some peoples reactions to it is irrational.

And superman doesnt need to smile all the time, TAS one was serious and agressive at times. Its just the tone set within the story and the situation they put supes in. I think the sad look ppl complain about is suppose to show is lack of confidence and internal conflict. So yea bring him back as man who knows what he stands for and has confidence in himself and beliefs. Similar to cap in the MCU, except cap is a solider while supes is a harbinger of hope. If they can get supes to make me feel like Jor el's speech in MoS did then ill be 100% behind supes.

MOS was the place to have a doubt ridden Superman. By the end of that movie all trace of self doubt should have been overcome. In BvS Superman should already be the man with all know. Self Confident, decisive and charismatic. Batman can survive been a resentful paranoid jerk just fine... Much easier than Superman overcoming the perception of been a directionless wimp.

[Vanguard-01]

Saved him from Batman. Oh yeah "MARTHA... WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME? WHAY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!"

Gods that was painful to watch. But I admit as meme fodder it's solid gold. Lol

Right. Because Batman is an emotionally stable guy who will totally respond rationally to someone he considers an enemy invoking the name of his dead mother.

It was an attack on Batman's own personal trauma. He responded in typical Batman fashion.

Meanwhile, Lois' explanation of the meaning of "Martha" forced Batman to confront the fact that Superman wasn't the inhuman monster he was making him out to be. He was a person, with people who loved him. Suddenly Batman sees himself for what he really was: suddenly HE'S the armed thug, about to cut down a helpless family for no good reason.

It was a great scene if you make any attempt to understand the deeper meaning.

The extended cut. Hmmm. Why would Luthor people with bullets that could ONLY be traced back to him. I hope the explanation was stupid underling syndrome.

The bullets weren't supposed to be traceable at all. They didn't exist, as far as the world was concerned. They weren't even available on the black market.

Actually it was "Extremely Talented Underling Syndrome." Lois figured out where the metal came from thanks to the assistance of a very talented CSI with a Superman pedigree. Jenet Klyburn. She was a scientist at STAR Labs who helped out Superman in the Silver Age. And now, she's a CSI who's very good at her job and was able to help Lois uncover all kinds of useful information.

[MikeP]

Superman still got his ass kicked... And begged his would be killer to save his mommy

Yes, he threw the fight. Superman is not a killer, no matter how much Lex wanted to make him, or how much easier it would have been to simply kill Batman. Superman begged Batman to save his mother, and ended up winning over Batman's soul. He saved Batman from a darker path.

How is this not his movie again?

[brettc1]

Right. Because Batman is an emotionally stable guy who will totally respond rationally to someone he considers an enemy invoking the name of his dead mother.

It was an attack on Batman's own personal trauma. He responded in typical Batman fashion.

Meanwhile, Lois' explanation of the meaning of "Martha" forced Batman to confront the fact that Superman wasn't the inhuman monster he was making him out to be. He was a person, with people who loved him. Suddenly Batman sees himself for what he really was: suddenly HE'S the armed thug, about to cut down a helpless family for no good reason.

It was a great scene if you make any attempt to understand the deeper meaning.

It was a terrible scene because it lacked all credibility. Why would he say Martha? He always calls her mom previously, never by her first name. What, suddenly facing death gives him a moment of clarity and he decides he doesn't think of her as his mother any more? It was absurd.

I get the revelation moment for Batman but the writing of that scene was completely forced and unconvincing for many, many people watching the movie. I'm certainly not the only one who has commented on it.

The bullets weren't supposed to be traceable at all. They didn't exist, as far as the world was concerned. They weren't even available on the black market.

Actually it was "Extremely Talented Underling Syndrome." Lois figured out where the metal came from thanks to the assistance of a very talented CSI with a Superman pedigree. Jenet Klyburn. She was a scientist at STAR Labs who helped out Superman in the Silver Age. And now, she's a CSI who's very good at her job and was able to help Lois uncover all kinds of useful information.

So Lex could have used ANY regular bullet and been fine - there was no special kill required, he just needed thugs with guns.

But instead uses the ONLY bullets on earth that could only have come from one source - Lex Luthor.

That is stupid on an epic scale. Clearly he has not watched enough episodes of Burn Notice.

Probably not as stupid as building a Kryptonite spear when you can just load up your machine gun ambush with Kryptonite bullets and end the fight in 5 seconds, but still...

[brettc1]

Yes, he threw the fight. Superman is not a killer, no matter how much Lex wanted to make him, or how much easier it would have been to simply kill Batman. Superman begged Batman to save his mother, and ended up winning over Batman's soul. He saved Batman from a darker path.

How is this not his movie again?

Because from the moment she appears in costume, its her movie...

[Vanguard-01]

It was a terrible scene because it lacked all credibility. Why would he say Martha? He always calls her mom previously, never by her first name. What, suddenly facing death gives him a moment of clarity and he decides he doesn't think of her as his mother any more? It was absurd.

I get the revelation moment for Batman but the writing of that scene was completely forced and unconvincing for many, many people watching the movie. I'm certainly not the only one who has commented on it.

He said, "Martha" because he was trying to tell Batman who he wanted him to save. "Mom" means nothing to Batman. "Martha" is a clue to follow.

Lex could have used ANY regular bullet and been fine - there was no special kill required, he just needed thugs with guns.

Maybe he was field testing them. Two birds, one stone.

And either way, he didn't expect there to BE any attempt to trace the bullets. The CIA just wanted to make the incident go away. He never expected Lois to keep one of the bullets, and in typical Lex fashion, it never occurred to him that Lois might just be smart enough to catch him.

Lex ALWAYS believes he's the smartest man alive. It's a fatal flaw that has bitten him in the ass more times than we can count.

Probably not as stupid as building a Kryptonite spear when you can just load up your machine gun ambush with Kryptonite bullets and end the fight in 5 seconds, but still...

Batman doesn't like guns. This version will use them when he feels he must, but they're never his first-choice weapon.

Remember that line about the Waynes being hunters? He built a hunter's weapon.

It's also a sign that on some level, Batman didn't want to kill Superman. The fact that he deliberately overlooked the most obvious path to victory shows that he subconsciously didn't WANT to win.

[Agent Z]

Because from the moment she appears in costume, its her movie...

By this logic IM2 was Black Widow's movie as soon as she appeared in costume.

[brettc1]

By this logic IM2 was Black Widow's movie as soon as she appeared in costume.

No, because in IM2 Widow wasnt the saving grace of the movie.

That was Coulson

[Osiris-Rex]

No, because in IM2 Widow wasnt the saving grace of the movie.

That was Coulson

That's true. I didn't hear people in the audience cheering when Black Widow showed up like they did when Wonder Woman showed up.

[Buried Alien]

That's true. I didn't hear people in the audience cheering when Black Widow showed up like they did when Wonder Woman showed up.

Until a few years ago, people who didn't read Marvel Comics had no idea who Black Widow was.

But generations of non-comics readers recognize Wonder Woman on sight.

The fans were cheering for the character, but also for the icon.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[brettc1]

He said, "Martha" because he was trying to tell Batman who he wanted him to save. "Mom" means nothing to Batman. "Martha" is a clue to follow.

No it isn't. Why would Mom mean nothing and Martha does? Who's Martha? It's pure dumb luck that Marta is the name of Bruce's mother. You say "Save my mother" - boom, that is instantly understandable. Why the hell would Superman being giving CLUES? Hey, riddle me this Batman, so you can save my mother. What?!

Maybe he was field testing them. Two birds, one stone.

And either way, he didn't expect there to BE any attempt to trace the bullets. The CIA just wanted to make the incident go away. He never expected Lois to keep one of the bullets, and in typical Lex fashion, it never occurred to him that Lois might just be smart enough to catch him.

Lex ALWAYS believes he's the smartest man alive. It's a fatal flaw that has bitten him in the ass more times than we can count.

Easy to see why if he's actually that stupid. Now if you said yeah in the extended cut he finds out some flunky loaded the mercs up with special ammo and had that guy killed, sure. That sounds like Lex Luthor.

But then, Eisenberg's Luthor bears so little resemblance to the character I suppose that should not be a surprise.

Batman doesn't like guns. This version will use them when he feels he must, but they're never his first-choice weapon.

Remember that line about the Waynes being hunters? He built a hunter's weapon.

It's also a sign that on some level, Batman didn't want to kill Superman. The fact that he deliberately overlooked the most obvious path to victory shows that he subconsciously didn't WANT to win.

What!?

He uses guns ALL THE TIME IN THIS MOVIE! Line guns, machine guns on the Batmobile, machine guns on the roof - he has a frikkin' GRENADE LAUNCHER!

Subconsciously didn't want to win. LOL. That's pretty much it - you have to read bizarre subconscious motivations into the characters actions in order for the movie to make sense.

[AcesX1X]

No it isn't. Why would Mom mean nothing and Martha does? Who's Martha? It's pure dumb luck that Marta is the name of Bruce's mother. You say "Save my mother" - boom, that is instantly understandable. Why the hell would Superman being giving CLUES? Hey, riddle me this Batman, so you can save my mother. What?!





Easy to see why if he's actually that stupid. Now if you said yeah in the extended cut he finds out some flunky loaded the mercs up with special ammo and had that guy killed, sure. That sounds like Lex Luthor.

But then, Eisenberg's Luthor bears so little resemblance to the character I suppose that should not be a surprise.





What!?

He uses guns ALL THE TIME IN THIS MOVIE! Line guns, machine guns on the Batmobile, machine guns on the roof - he has a frikkin' GRENADE LAUNCHER!

Subconsciously didn't want to win. LOL. That's pretty much it - you have to read bizarre subconscious motivations into the characters actions in order for the movie to make sense.

hey no offense but i'm watching you make some pretty dismissive arguments and i think its not all entirely honest.

on the martha point, superman was trying not to give her relationship to him away. that is a perfectly valid reason, even if you didnt care for it.

lex's plan to sabotage superman was very brilliant since he played a long con on him from the start. if you had paid attention, you would have known that he was betting on lois gettig bombed to death in africa along with everyone else. therefore no one to trace. the cia was already aware he was supplying bullets, they just had no way of exposing him without compromising their mission.

batman used guns in this movie sure. he never packed and carried. every gun he fired save for the dark vision was a gun he took from someone else while taking them down.

[People Of The Earth]

He said, "Martha" because he was trying to tell Batman who he wanted him to save. "Mom" means nothing to Batman. "Martha" is a clue to follow.

"Mom means nothing to Batman"? "Martha is a clue to follow" ??
How about him saying to Batman "I need your help saving my mother from Lex Luthor" from the get go ? Instead of coming up with "clues to follow" right before getting killed ? How about Superman being straightforward ?
If Batman still attacked him afterward, only then could you say something like "Mom means nothing to Batman".
As it is, that's a pretty bold and false statement to make.

Maybe he was field testing them. Two birds, one stone.

And either way, he didn't expect there to BE any attempt to trace the bullets. The CIA just wanted to make the incident go away. He never expected Lois to keep one of the bullets, and in typical Lex fashion, it never occurred to him that Lois might just be smart enough to catch him.

Lex ALWAYS believes he's the smartest man alive. It's a fatal flaw that has bitten him in the ass more times than we can count.

Hypothesis are nice, but...they still are hypothesis at the end of the day.
A great one would have been, Lex wanted someone to figure out he was behind the whole set up, because he's a megalomaniac individual who needs the attention and wants someone to see him triumph over Superman.
That would have been a great retort to the "I know what you did" Lois' remark, and definitely showcased how manipulative and dangerous the man is.
Plus, it would have actually helped to justify us sitting through every scene of her doing her investigation.
Instead, it looked like Lex just made a major mistake allowing the use of the one prototypes traceable to him, making him either pretty reckless, or stupid, or both.
Which he's supposed not to be.
And Lois' investigation ended-up having zero impact on the plot - Lex was going to kidnapp her anyway, since he already had figured out who Clark Kent really was before the movie started.

Batman doesn't like guns. This version will use them when he feels he must, but they're never his first-choice weapon.

Remember that line about the Waynes being hunters? He built a hunter's weapon.

Come on, how can you pretend THAT when he had no qualm using machine guns to mow down KGB mooks in this movie ?
Not once, but twice at that?? That's absurd.
Bruce's characterization in this movie doesn't even follow its own internal logic.
If he is soooo far over the edge he doesn't care about using guns and killing mooks anymore (since it's the go-to defense whenever someone point out how Batman has had a no kill code for decades now), it's all the more incomprehensible he doesn't use these weapons against the "creature" he thinks need to be put down permanently for humanity's future.

Snyder should just have had a scene with him or Lex saying kryptonite was too difficult to manufacture/refine into bullets or something along these lines.

As it is, it's only fair to point out how mismanaged his use of kryptonite was.

It's also a sign that on some level, Batman didn't want to kill Superman. The fact that he deliberately overlooked the most obvious path to victory shows that he subconsciously didn't WANT to win.

"The fact that he deliberately overlooked"...
You don't see him exploring other venues of using the kryptonite, or deciding not to do so.
How do you even know he "deliberately overlooked" anything then ?
"He subconsciouly didn't WANT to win" takes the cake in the excuses' department though. You know you are reaching when you have to come up with excuses that are not even remotely hinted in the actual material.

[Username taken]

No it isn't. Why would Mom mean nothing and Martha does? Who's Martha? It's pure dumb luck that Marta is the name of Bruce's mother. You say "Save my mother" - boom, that is instantly understandable. Why the hell would Superman being giving CLUES? Hey, riddle me this Batman, so you can save my mother. What?!





Easy to see why if he's actually that stupid. Now if you said yeah in the extended cut he finds out some flunky loaded the mercs up with special ammo and had that guy killed, sure. That sounds like Lex Luthor.

But then, Eisenberg's Luthor bears so little resemblance to the character I suppose that should not be a surprise.





What!?

He uses guns ALL THE TIME IN THIS MOVIE! Line guns, machine guns on the Batmobile, machine guns on the roof - he has a frikkin' GRENADE LAUNCHER!

Subconsciously didn't want to win. LOL. That's pretty much it - you have to read bizarre subconscious motivations into the characters actions in order for the movie to make sense.

That Martha thing has become a joke because it was ridiculous.

I completely agree that there's no sense in calling out his mother's name that way.

The writers of the movie should have removed that entire scene. If his mother's name was Diane or Linda, Batman would have killed him? WTF? Stupid and ridiculous writing.

[AcesX1X]

lets also drop this "mowing people down" with machine guns from the batmobile. he only used the weapons on the batmobile like he always has. he didnt mow anyone down helplessly. he used his batmobile weapons to break through barriers and disable vehicles - like he has done in every single movie since 1989.