why is superman in the movies so depressed , boring and nothing like the superman we know and love in the comic books ?

[People Of The Earth]

hey no offense but i'm watching you make some pretty dismissive arguments and i think its not all entirely honest.

on the martha point, superman was trying not to give her relationship to him away. that is a perfectly valid reason, even if you didnt care for it.

More excuses here.
Why would Superman even prize his relationship to his mother OVER her being saved from certain death ?
At that point of the movie, he had just had Lex telling him to his face he knew who he was and who mattered in his personal life. Privacy was already out of the window.

lex's plan to sabotage superman was very brilliant since he played a long con on him from the start. if you had paid attention, you would have known that he was betting on lois gettig bombed to death in africa along with everyone else. therefore no one to trace. the cia was already aware he was supplying bullets, they just had no way of exposing him without compromising their mission.

Lex was counting on Superman showing up in Africa to tie the massacre to him because of Lois :
a. being on the site and
b. being his lover.
He never expected her to die, that "betting on Lois getting bombed" never happened in the actual movie.
In fact, Lex demonstrates this point AGAIN when he throw Lois off the building to attract Superman - because he knows Superman will never allows her to be harmed in any way, therefore it's the quickest way to attract him where he is.

batman used guns in this movie sure. he never packed and carried. every gun he fired save for the dark vision was a gun he took from someone else while taking them down.

All the mounted weapons he had equipped his vehicles with were certainly not taken from anyone. And they are certainly not dismissable because of them being mounted on vehicles.

lets also drop this "mowing people down" with machine guns from the batmobile. he only used the weapons on the batmobile like he always has. he didnt mow anyone down helplessly. he used his batmobile weapons to break through barriers and disable vehicles - like he has done in every single movie since 1989.

"Disabling" ? Such a clean terminology for what was essentially him gunning down these vehicles to the point of them exploding at times... when he wasn't plowing through them with his tank of a batmobile.
Or are you pretending there weren't people in these cars ?

Disabling would have been him shuting down the motors of these vehicles with a device for example.

[brettc1]

lets also drop this "mowing people down" with machine guns from the batmobile. he only used the weapons on the batmobile like he always has. he didnt mow anyone down helplessly. he used his batmobile weapons to break through barriers and disable vehicles - like he has done in every single movie since 1989.

People might be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt there if he hadn't first grabbed a car with a grapple gun and flung it about with enough force to crush the roof of the criminals car like a pancake.

And no, he doesn't use the guns to just clear barriers - unless you count a car with a gun on the back as a barrier, I guess... [1 minute 5 seconds]



Notice how he leaps the Batmobile down and totally kills the guy in the back of the truck.

But since this thread is really about Superman, how about how he completely ignores all the guys with rockets and guns to deliver a threat to Batman because he thinks he is over the edge.

Yeah, you just saw him blow and up and run down a half dozen people, which you apparently have a problem with from a civil rights point of view, so you tell him to stop and then fly off.

What the hell?

[Agent Z]

"Mom means nothing to Batman"? "Martha is a clue to follow" ??
How about him saying to Batman "I need your help saving my mother from Lex Luthor" from the get go ? Instead of coming up with "clues to follow" right before getting killed ? How about Superman being straightforward ?

He tried to and then Batman attacked him with the sonics.

Come on, how can you pretend THAT when he had no qualm using machine guns to mow down KGB mooks in this movie ?
Not once, but twice at that?? That's absurd.

I'm not sure what your point here is. Vanguard said this Batman would use them when he felt he must. Key phrase being "when he feels he must".

[Agent Z]

More excuses here.
Why would Superman even prize his relationship to his mother OVER her being saved from certain death ?
At that point of the movie, he had just had Lex telling him to his face he knew who he was and who mattered in his personal life. Privacy was already out of the window.



Lex was counting on Superman showing up in Africa to tie the massacre to him because of Lois :
a. being on the site and
b. being his lover.
He never expected her to die, that "betting on Lois getting bombed" never happened in the actual movie.
In fact, Lex demonstrates this point AGAIN when he throw Lois off the building to attract Superman - because he knows Superman will never allows her to be harmed in any way, therefore it's the quickest way to attract him where he is.



All the mounted weapons he had equipped his vehicles with were certainly not taken from anyone. And they are certainly not dismissable because of them being mounted on vehicles.



"Disabling" ? Such a clean terminology for what was essentially him gunning down these vehicles to the point of them exploding at times... when he wasn't plowing through them with his tank of a batmobile.
Or are you pretending there weren't people in these cars ?

Disabling would have been him shuting down the motors of these vehicles with a device for example.

Just for the record, this Batman is not the only one who equips his vehicles with weapons. And unlike, the ones who claim to have a no kill code, this one has actual reasons to have them.

[AcesX1X]

what are you talking about? they dedicate a whole scene to the military sending drones to bomb the entire facility where lois was, therefore lex knew he was setting her up to die. the military considered her an acceptable loss. so did lex, multiple times. whether she lived or died in africa mattered to no one except superman, which he was counting on.

his goal was to frame superman, and he would have done it whether the bombs dropped or not. lois was bait for all parties involved. the two sides (cia and lex) just needed her for different purposes.

lastly it was pure luck she even had a bullet to investigate in the first place. as a reminder, that was not a topic the military deemed worthy of investigating. pure. luck.

also you can argue all the live long day for why clark said martha instead of mom. he had no reason to believe batman was an obsessive with his own parents and had no clue that would be a point to get him to see reason.

fact is, he said martha. not mom. you might have said mom but this movie wasnt about you. that's really as simple as it gets.

[Buried Alien]

As a reporter, Clark probably knew a thing or two about Bruce's biography. I wouldn't be surprised if Clark, knowing that Bruce's mom was also named "Martha" (and how she died, and how her and Thomas Wayne's deaths had started Bruce on the path to becoming Batman), decided to use that in a last ditch effort to wake Bruce up from his delusions.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[People Of The Earth]

He tried to and then Batman attacked him with the sonics.

And then he's up again.
He had plenty of time to usher these words or similar words between that moment and the moment he decided throwing Batman around and through a building was better than an explanation.
My point being "he didn't try hard enough".

I'm not sure what your point here is. Vanguard said this Batman would use them when he felt he must. Key phrase being "when he feels he must".

I was responding to Vanguard saying Batman didn't like guns, hence why he didn't use guns against Superman.
My point is, Batman had no qualms using guns on criminals in this movie, so why would he have any qualms using the same weapons on Superman whom he consider a global threat ?
It would mean the movie's own internal logic about Batman isn't even consistant.
Now, it can be just that, the movie being inconsistent with the characterization of the characters, but I wager in this instance it's simply a case of Batman mismanaging its kryptonite resources because the plot demands it to make the movie work.

[AcesX1X]

As a reporter, Clark probably knew a thing or two about Bruce's biography. I wouldn't be surprised if Clark, knowing that Bruce's mom was also named "Martha" (and how she died, and how her and Thomas Wayne's deaths had started Bruce on the path to becoming Batman), decided to use that in a last ditch effort to wake Bruce up from his delusions.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

maybe so. but that goes too far into the realm of speculation, right alongside batman subconsciously making a spear instead of bullets.

the simplest and only answer that matters is he chose martha. not mom. both would have equal weight, and in reality, neither had any weight.

it was lois who physically put her body between the two men that made bruce stand down. bruce was still ready to murder clark even after he said martha.

[People Of The Earth]

As a reporter, Clark probably knew a thing or two about Bruce's biography. I wouldn't be surprised if Clark, knowing that Bruce's mom was also named "Martha" (and how she died, and how her and Thomas Wayne's deaths had started Bruce on the path to becoming Batman), decided to use that in a last ditch effort to wake Bruce up from his delusions.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Clark didn't even recognize Bruce when he sees him, personally, I'd be very surprised if he knew anything about Bruce Wayne at all, let alone his past.
And if you are right and he knew Bruce's past, that's even less understandable that he waited the last minute to talk about his mother, instead of starting by this from the very beginning.
He should know it's a sensitive subject to him.

Just for the record, this Batman is not the only one who equips his vehicles with weapons. And unlike, the ones who claim to have a no kill code, this one has actual reasons to have them.

I know he's not the only version who does that, but that's the only version Superman ever met on screen, so that's the one version relevant to this topic.

[AcesX1X]

Clark didn't even recognize Bruce when he sees him, personally, I'd be very surprised if he knew anything about Bruce Wayne at all, let alone his past.
And if you are right and he knew Bruce's past, that's even less understandable that he waited the last minute to talk about his mother, instead of starting by this from the very beginning.
He should know it's a sensitive subject to him.



I know he's not the only version who does that, but that's the only version Superman ever met on screen, so that's the one version relevant to this topic.

clark called him bruce as soon as the confrontation began . . .

[Buried Alien]

clark called him bruce as soon as the confrontation began . . .

...and the death of the Waynes was probably a well-known public fact, even to non-journalists.

As early as when they first came face-to-face at Luthor's party, Clark likely knew that Bruce was Batman.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[People Of The Earth]

clark called him bruce as soon as the confrontation began . . .

I was responding to Buried Allen remark on how Clark being a reporter probably meant he knew a thing or two about Bruce's biography. Well, as Clark the reporter, he had no idea who was Bruce Wayne the first time he saw him. Remember that party Lex was hosting at his place ?
I won't go as far as saying Clark Kent is a mediocre journalist, but he certainly didn't demonstrate he was a knowledgeable one with his reaction. Hence me saying it's doubtful he knew anything about Bruce Wayne's past.


And generally speaking, it would be nice to consider the context of the answers people are giving?
I'm quoting the comments I'm answering to for the sake of clarity in this thread - it's not so that said context is ignored when considering said answers. It end-up side-tracking the point made on something different.

[AcesX1X]

I was responding to Buried Allen remark on how Clark being a reporter probably meant he knew a thing or two about Bruce's biography. Well, as Clark the reporter, he had no idea who was Bruce Wayne the first time he saw him. Remember that party Lex was hosting at his place ?
I won't go as far as saying Clark Kent is a mediocre journalist, but he certainly didn't demonstrate he was a knowledgeable one with his reaction. Hence me saying it's doubtful he knew anything about Bruce Wayne's past.


And generally speaking, it would be nice to consider the context of the answers people are giving?
I'm quoting the comments I'm answering to for the sake of clarity in this thread - it's not so that said context is ignored when considering said answers. It end-up side-tracking the point made on something different.

he isn't a seasoned journalist from what i can tell. but i really can't hold it against him to not have every rich snob's mugshot committed to memory.

[People Of The Earth]

what are you talking about? they dedicate a whole scene to the military sending drones to bomb the entire facility where lois was, therefore lex knew he was setting her up to die. the military considered her an acceptable loss. so did lex, multiple times. whether she lived or died in africa mattered to no one except superman, which he was counting on.

his goal was to frame superman, and he would have done it whether the bombs dropped or not. lois was bait for all parties involved. the two sides (cia and lex) just needed her for different purposes.

Either Lex didn't care about her living or dying...or he cared enough to count on her dying at the hand of the military, "therefore no one to trace".

if you had paid attention, you would have known that he was betting on lois gettig bombed to death in africa along with everyone else. therefore no one to trace.

Your words. So, which is it?

lastly it was pure luck she even had a bullet to investigate in the first place. as a reminder, that was not a topic the military deemed worthy of investigating. pure. luck.

Which is all the more a reason to have her investigation deliver some sort of pay-off down the line
by the way.

also you can argue all the live long day for why clark said martha instead of mom. he had no reason to believe batman was an obsessive with his own parents and had no clue that would be a point to get him to see reason.

Telling something like "Help me save my mother from Lex Luthor" makes more sense than throwing a "Martha" out of the blue, anyway you want to slice it.
As pointed out, what happens if her first name is different ?

fact is, he said martha. not mom. you might have said mom but this movie wasnt about you. that's really as simple as it gets.

We are between adults here, there's no need for this kind of remarks.

he isn't a seasoned journalist from what i can tell. but i really can't hold it against him to not have every rich snob's mugshot committed to memory.

Perry was expecting his article on the party and the people attending it.
So either Clark didn't care enough to make his homeworks beforehand, or he did and hacked the effort.
Not reinforcing the idea of him doing great journalism, but that's besides the point.

...and the death of the Waynes was probably a well-known public fact, even to non-journalists.

As early as when they first came face-to-face at Luthor's party, Clark likely knew that Bruce was Batman.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I think he was suspicious of him after he heard his conversation with Alfred at the party.
But even after that night, he's never shown investigating on Bruce Wayne, nor his history, nor trying to confront him about the conversation.

[AcesX1X]

just curious but which version did you watch? because they make it pretty clear that lex set the scene up for superman to get framed. lois staying alive was not a requirement. the only requirement was that superman be present at that specific military incident.

her finding the bullet was a pure fluke. and the cia general made it clear in both versions that they know lex is behind the weapons and they couldn't pursue him.