Nightwing #4 Preview/Discussion

[Aahz]

Dick was in the book of names buried in Haley's circus that had the names of all the Talons trained or supposed Talons.

The court had tons of Talons, being chosen to become a Talon is not that special imo. And Talons are anyway just henchman, nothing that would justify such a big plan like Robin War to get one (especially since that makes him hardly into a loyal servant).

[Atlanta96]

Yeah Graysons connection to the Owls was always stupid and poorly planned and did nothing for the character. I don't even care if the payoff to that plot point is underwhelming, I just want it out of the way. I'm pretty sick of the Owls in general, I think Nightwing has been fun for me in spite of them and not because of their actual contributions to the story.

[OWL45]

The court had tons of Talons, being chosen to become a Talon is not that special imo. And Talons are anyway just henchman, nothing that would justify such a big plan like Robin War to get one (especially since that makes him hardly into a loyal servant).

We can debate how special it is but I was responding to some saying the COO didn't know of him and it's clear that they did. If not then why would they have come to get him. That's all I was addressing. Fans are split on that change to his origin. Some don't like it and some do. I just happen to fall into the camp of those who do.

[Rakiduam]

I think it was not really a satisfying conclusion for this whole "Gray Son of Gotham" thing, and makes me even more question why the court started this Robin War thing.
Especially why they need Dick if they could have with Raptor a more capable guy much easier (and have of course also the Talons).

The court are a bunch of greedy entitled drama queens that always get what they want. I doubt they need any reason beyond "he is a Gray son we own him"

But yeah, the whole "gray son of Gotham" was very dumb

[byrd156]

Yeah Graysons connection to the Owls was always stupid and poorly planned and did nothing for the character. I don't even care if the payoff to that plot point is underwhelming, I just want it out of the way. I'm pretty sick of the Owls in general, I think Nightwing has been fun for me in spite of them and not because of their actual contributions to the story.

I just pretend that that the new connections in Dick's origins never happened, they are unnecessary and take away from his original origin. Dick still has his normal origin to me and the court is just obsessed with him and want him as a Talon because reasons.

[Atlanta96]

I just pretend that that the new connections in Dick's origins never happened, they are unnecessary and take away from his original origin. Dick still has his normal origin to me and the court is just obsessed with him and want him as a Talon because reasons.

They want him as a Talon because of his perfect butt, let's leave it at that

[byrd156]

They want him as a Talon because of his perfect butt, let's leave it at that

Makes more sense.

[ayanestar]

I just pretend that that the new connections in Dick's origins never happened, they are unnecessary and take away from his original origin. Dick still has his normal origin to me and the court is just obsessed with him and want him as a Talon because reasons.

Exactly, this is the only explanation I accept

[dropkickjake]

If Snyder had written the Court with Dick as the main Character rather than Bruce, Dick's connection would have been handled far better.

[Claude]

The court had tons of Talons, being chosen to become a Talon is not that special imo. And Talons are anyway just henchman, nothing that would justify such a big plan like Robin War to get one (especially since that makes him hardly into a loyal servant).

In fairness, back in the Owls' first appearance - and when they were building up this "Gray Son" nonsense - the Talon Of The Court Of Owls, singular, was a peerless once-in-a-generation fighter and enforcer.

They only became footsoldiers later, hence Seeley's massaging of their motives in going after Dick here as being part of the "branding" theme.

[wvchemteach]

The court had tons of Talons, being chosen to become a Talon is not that special imo. And Talons are anyway just henchman, nothing that would justify such a big plan like Robin War to get one (especially since that makes him hardly into a loyal servant).

It actually appears they chose 1 Talon every 10 to 20 years so no more than 10 a century. It seems occasionally one was retired early because they went off the rails. Furthermore, William Cobb gave Dick's grandfather to the circus for the purpose of continuing his bloodline's service to the Owls.

No matter how much Snyder wants it to be different, with the way Dick's backstory was revised in the New 52 to include William Cobb as his ancestor the Owls are tied more to Dick than they ever will be to Bruce.

[Alycat]

I admit to being bias because no matter how well written the situation, I think I would still dislike it. I like Dicks simple origin and the circus not being unbelilivably evil. The only connection to Gotham being his parents death and Bruce was fine with no need for a grand epic conspiracy.

[oasis1313]

Dick should kick Owl butt and make THEM all work for HIM.

[JayPursuits]

I'm surprised of the reason why the Court/Parliment wants Dick flies over some people's heads. Although I guess it's fair since the reason isn't expressed normally within his series.

By sheer principal, the Owls are very adamant about their selection of choices of Talons for them to become Talons. Mind you also, Dick's ancestry has Cobb as his great-grandfather, who became their best Talon so he's obviously capable of reaching the same heights. Not to mention that his acrobat skill is just about un-parallel on a humane level. This kind of attitude in not letting any Talon/potential Talon go is the very backdrop of the Talon series, where Calvin Rose is relentlessly hunted by the Court of Owls. Call it stupid all you like, but this is the same attitude behind the League of Assassins (especially with Talia, Ra's, and Damian). Matter of fact, the Talon series introduced even assassins from the LOA that failed and iirc, was hunted too. The Owls aren't just after him because "reasons". It's just how they operate: once they set sights on you, they don't let go. They're not the first people to have wanting for corrupting Dick by any means in any kind of media (Teen Titan's Slade, Batman: Brave and the Bold's Ras talk with Robin, even Pre-52 Slade to a degree was happy about that potential at one point during Devin Grayson's run when you can consider it "decent" prior to all that Tarantula stuff).

I'm just saying. I understand If it took away from the simple circus origin but I don't think it's a case of improper planning. It's more of a case of "These character were obviously going to be connected to Dick but given to Bruce cause popularity". As many pointed out, the Court has a stronger connection to him for the sheer fact that they're actually in his backstory. And lets not forget Black Mirror hinted some kind of secret from his parents too that didn't get explored. It probably was the Court maybe.

I understand the issue a fan would have but pretending it's on that level of being "ignored", especially when it's relevant to his history, current story arc, etc. is exaggerating IMO. It's hardly the most offensive thing for his backstory.

[OWL45]

I'm surprised of the reason why the Court/Parliment wants Dick flies over some people's heads. Although I guess it's fair since the reason isn't expressed normally within his series.

By sheer principal, the Owls are very adamant about their selection of choices of Talons for them to become Talons. Mind you also, Dick's ancestry has Cobb as his great-grandfather, who became their best Talon so he's obviously capable of reaching the same heights. Not to mention that his acrobat skill is just about un-parallel on a humane level. This kind of attitude in not letting any Talon/potential Talon go is the very backdrop of the Talon series, where Calvin Rose is relentlessly hunted by the Court of Owls. Call it stupid all you like, but this is the same attitude behind the League of Assassins (especially with Talia, Ra's, and Damian). Matter of fact, the Talon series introduced even assassins from the LOA that failed and iirc, was hunted too. The Owls aren't just after him because "reasons". It's just how they operate: once they set sights on you, they don't let go. They're not the first people to have wanting for corrupting Dick by any means in any kind of media (Teen Titan's Slade, Batman: Brave and the Bold's Ras talk with Robin, even Pre-52 Slade to a degree was happy about that potential at one point during Devin Grayson's run when you can consider it "decent" prior to all that Tarantula stuff).

I'm just saying. I understand If it took away from the simple circus origin but I don't think it's a case of improper planning. It's more of a case of "These character were obviously going to be connected to Dick but given to Bruce cause popularity". As many pointed out, the Court has a stronger connection to him for the sheer fact that they're actually in his backstory. And lets not forget Black Mirror hinted some kind of secret from his parents too that didn't get explored. It probably was the Court maybe.

I understand the issue a fan would have but pretending it's on that level of being "ignored", especially when it's relevant to his history, current story arc, etc. is exaggerating IMO. It's hardly the most offensive thing for his backstory.

You expressed my thoughts on the whole subject very well. It doesn't take away anything from the character. It just adds another layer of depth to his character. Inserting new elements into characters back story is not new. It's done with almost every popular character to generate more story. They have done this with Wolverine, Batman, Cyclops, Wonder Woman, Superman, Thor, and Iron Man just to name a few. It's not that big of a deal.