Scarlet blood drops on the stone - Kaine the Scarlet Spider (and Hummingbird) appreciation

[Darthfury78]

Attachment 8367]

Please Support New Warriors so Marvel knows that Kaine and Aracely won't be used as cannon fodder in Spider-verse.

It's very hard for a series to thrive if the writer isn't willing to take calculated risks that might draw the readers to the series. Why does the Thunderbots does well over everything else, or even the first Exiles series? The respective writers were willing to take risks that drew in the readers. Chris Yost never did that with the Scarlet Spider, Superior Spider-Man Team-Up, or even the New Warriors...

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

It's very hard for a series to thrive if the writer isn't willing to take calculated risks that might draw the readers to the series. Why does the Thunderbots does well over everything else, or even the first Exiles series? The respective writers were willing to take risks that drew in the readers. Chris Yost never did that with the Scarlet Spider, Superior Spider-Man Team-Up, or even the New Warriors...

I disagree. I think Yost took an interesting risk by having Kaine be part of a team. Something that on paper would seem kind of odd for him but Yost made it work. Seriously how has this guy not been promoted to another Spider-Man book yet. His writing is phenomenal. Much better than Slott's IMO. I think it's more about a lack of promotion and the Avengers and X-men titles being way too big more then anything else.

[Pav]

I bought the whole Scarlet Spider series and the first four issues of the relaunched New Warriors series, and while I have no real problem with Yost's work - I didn't love any of it; nor did I dislike any of it - I couldn't shake the feeling that his version of Kaine feels...

Neutered.

-Pav, who wants a less heroic Kaine...

Edit: Did Yost write the crossover between Scarlet and Superior Team-Up? Okay. I loved that.

[Beacon]

I really enjoyed Kaine’s dynamic of insisting that he isn’t a hero followed by him doing the right thing (mostly) while grumbling about it and then repeating that he isn’t a hero. Realistically that’s not a status quo you can keep going for very long though. Eventually even Kaine is going to see through his own deception.

I also liked the odd friendship that was developing between Scarlet Spider and Speedball but it looks like that’ll be forgotten soon. That’s gotta disappoint Hummingbird even more than fans since she’s the only one that sees the “real” them.

Maybe Kaine will get shuffled over to Nick Spencer’s “All-New Thunderbolts”. A guy can dream.

[Highland Chicken]

I hope Yost gets to finish Aracelys story, Aztec mythology is too good to drop.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

I really enjoyed Kaine’s dynamic of insisting that he isn’t a hero followed by him doing the right thing (mostly) while grumbling about it and then repeating that he isn’t a hero. Realistically that’s not a status quo you can keep going for very long though. Eventually even Kaine is going to see through his own deception.

I also liked the odd friendship that was developing between Scarlet Spider and Speedball but it looks like that’ll be forgotten soon. That’s gotta disappoint Hummingbird even more than fans since she’s the only one that sees the “real” them.

Maybe Kaine will get shuffled over to Nick Spencer’s “All-New Thunderbolts”. A guy can dream.

Don't give up on New Warriors just yet. there's still time to turn the thing around by getting more people to buy it. I'm not giving up until the "Final" issue has been released.

I hope Yost gets to finish Aracelys story, Aztec mythology is too good to drop.

Oh that's for sure.

[ScarletSpider]

It's too late MASTER-OF-SUPRISE....

It's cancelled, it's over.... this sucks, because I like New Warriors even more than Scarlet Spider.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

It's too late MASTER-OF-SUPRISE....

It's cancelled, it's over.... this sucks, because I like New Warriors even more than Scarlet Spider.

That's defeatist talk. I've already talked someone into giving the book a shot so I'm not giving up. Giving up before November IMO is the wrong idea. Promote the book as much as possible since it's clear Marvel didn't feel like it. I say the fight is not over until the final issue.

Why we're on the subject why is 20,000 the red line? I never really got that.

[Pav]

I really enjoyed Kaine’s dynamic of insisting that he isn’t a hero followed by him doing the right thing (mostly) while grumbling about it and then repeating that he isn’t a hero. Realistically that’s not a status quo you can keep going for very long though. Eventually even Kaine is going to see through his own deception.

I also liked the odd friendship that was developing between Scarlet Spider and Speedball but it looks like that’ll be forgotten soon. That’s gotta disappoint Hummingbird even more than fans since she’s the only one that sees them.

See, this is what I'm talking about: I didn't hate these developments from Yost, and I do think the Aracely character is a fun foil for Kaine to have to deal with. Even still...

Kaine used to murder people in cold blood. He was a scary, scary dude. Seeing him quip - seeing him as 'curmudgeonly' - that's not the Kaine I really want to see. And I understand that his whole series was about whether the monster can be redeemed, and I also understand that Kaine's changes - even his psychological ones - can be traced to being healed in Spider-Island. Nevertheless, i would've liked to see comic about Kaine stay dark. I want the tone to match the character, and I just thought there was too much lightheartedness. But this is of course coming from someone who was a big fan of the character in his original presentation.

I maintain that what's being done with Kaine right now is an attempt by the Spider-Office to do "darker Ben Reilly" - but Kaine isn't Ben and I'd rather he be written more similarly in tone to his original appearances: his book should be scary and dark and troubling.

-Pav, who is still happy that anyone at Marvel even cares about Kaine...

[Beacon]

I think you have a valid point about Kaine not struggling enough against his demons. It really doesn’t help any that the demons he did fight against had more to do with Peter’s abandoned totem arc than Kaine’s actual past.

I did like that his cop friend was unwilling to sweep Kaine’s murderous past under the rug once he found out. A change of heart (and I’m fine with him having a change of heart) doesn’t excuse murder.

I’m just going to go ahead and repeat that the Scarlet Spider would be a fantastic candidate for the Thunderbolts. Come to think of it, I’m pretty sure his MC2 counterpart ended up in a team like that.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

New Warriors Aracely add..jpg
Something a friend of mine made.

[Darthfury78]

I think you have a valid point about Kaine not struggling enough against his demons. It really doesn’t help any that the demons he did fight against had more to do with Peter’s abandoned totem arc than Kaine’s actual past.

I did like that his cop friend was unwilling to sweep Kaine’s murderous past under the rug once he found out. A change of heart (and I’m fine with him having a change of heart) doesn’t excuse murder.

I’m just going to go ahead and repeat that the Scarlet Spider would be a fantastic candidate for the Thunderbolts. Come to think of it, I’m pretty sure his MC2 counterpart ended up in a team like that.

I think that Yost should have made Moondragon as Kaine's partner. Perhaps, Helen might have been able to help Kaine overcome his demons through her mind mend with him working together at it. This could have been an interesting angle to see between Helen and Kaine.

[Chobbly]

I think you have a valid point about Kaine not struggling enough against his demons. It really doesn’t help any that the demons he did fight against had more to do with Peter’s abandoned totem arc than Kaine’s actual past.

I did like that his cop friend was unwilling to sweep Kaine’s murderous past under the rug once he found out. A change of heart (and I’m fine with him having a change of heart) doesn’t excuse murder.

I’m just going to go ahead and repeat that the Scarlet Spider would be a fantastic candidate for the Thunderbolts. Come to think of it, I’m pretty sure his MC2 counterpart ended up in a team like that.

There were some great character moments in the Scarlet Spider run, and I'm hoping that the next issue of New Warriors will feature a cameo from one or more of the supporting cast - Donald, Wally, Anabelle, whoever. It would be interesting for Justice to find out why Kaine left Houston.

Agree totally with Scarlet Spider being a candidate for Thunderbolts, and I think his MC2 version ended up on a Thunderbolts team too.

[DV1Band]

I really enjoyed Kaine’s dynamic of insisting that he isn’t a hero followed by him doing the right thing (mostly) while grumbling about it and then repeating that he isn’t a hero. Realistically that’s not a status quo you can keep going for very long though. Eventually even Kaine is going to see through his own deception.

I also liked the odd friendship that was developing between Scarlet Spider and Speedball but it looks like that’ll be forgotten soon. That’s gotta disappoint Hummingbird even more than fans since she’s the only one that sees the “real” them.

Maybe Kaine will get shuffled over to Nick Spencer’s “All-New Thunderbolts”. A guy can dream.

The thing is, you're saying that Kaine is going to see through his own deception. For this to be true, you'd have to say that people aren't capable of change. It's a status quo that you can keep going, because Kaine can work at becoming a better person. The part that should keep you coming back is the long road ahead to becoming a better person. That's a status quo that can keep going. Think about it: In Scarlet Spiders, Ben may officially pass the torch, and finally prove to Kaine that he can actually have a life to call his own. I don't see why people want him to just revert. If he goes back to just being old Kaine, he's a character that will never be seen again. Why would someone write a character that never changes in the end? It would be an insult to all of the work that's been put into him changing so far.

[Beacon]

Kaine’s self-deception is that he thinks he isn’t a hero. He keeps telling himself (and anyone in earshot) that he isn’t a hero. His actions since coming back show that he’s CLEARLY a hero now…though one that’s fairly rough around the edges.