What kind of origin/backstory would you eventually like to see for Rebirth Superman?

[Ascended]

Superman is now trailing Tarzan territory. Every Tarzan movie is about how Tarzan lost his parents as a baby and was raised by Apes. Every Tarzan movie is an origin story. Superman is also going that same path. Soon just like Tarzan he'd become a relic who no one pays attention up until some obscure film studio releases a new film.

I wont argue that we're headed in that direction, but it's sort of like a cross-country road trip; we might be headed that way, but we've got a whole lot of road to cover before we get to that end point.

Sure, when it comes to the comics DC doesnt have a clue, and hasn't for damn near thirty years (a few highlights notwithstanding). But despite this, despite the lackluster world-building Superman has suffered from since the late 90's and all the flatline quality, the Super-titles still sell decently, holding solid mid-range showings when they're not higher up the rankings. Superman still holds down multiple titles, where a lot of major names still cant. At his worst, Clark still had two titles, and recently he had, what, five? Seven, if we include mini's?

Even though he hasn't had a cartoon in twenty years and doesnt have the larger-media showings that properties like Spider-Man, Batman, and the Avengers get, Superman is still the fourth highest grossing comic book property on earth. That's a whole lot of money (277 million) for very little work.

Yeah, Superman's on a downward spiral and has been for many years now. But he's still a long way from hitting the bottom like Zorro, Tarzan, and the Phantom have. There's still time to course-correct and return the character to his rightful, lofty place. And indeed, to most people he's still there and never actually left. Its just us few who read comics who can see where the franchise is headed.

[manofsteel1979]

I wont argue that we're headed in that direction, but it's sort of like a cross-country road trip; we might be headed that way, but we've got a whole lot of road to cover before we get to that end point.

Sure, when it comes to the comics DC doesnt have a clue, and hasn't for damn near thirty years (a few highlights notwithstanding). But despite this, despite the lackluster world-building Superman has suffered from since the late 90's and all the flatline quality, the Super-titles still sell decently, holding solid mid-range showings when they're not higher up the rankings. Superman still holds down multiple titles, where a lot of major names still cant. At his worst, Clark still had two titles, and recently he had, what, five? Seven, if we include mini's?

Even though he hasn't had a cartoon in twenty years and doesnt have the larger-media showings that properties like Spider-Man, Batman, and the Avengers get, Superman is still the fourth highest grossing comic book property on earth. That's a whole lot of money (277 million) for very little work.

Yeah, Superman's on a downward spiral and has been for many years now. But he's still a long way from hitting the bottom like Zorro, Tarzan, and the Phantom have. There's still time to course-correct and return the character to his rightful, lofty place. And indeed, to most people he's still there and never actually left. Its just us few who read comics who can see where the franchise is headed.

Yeah,its easy to get caught up in the pessimism of recent times and forget that really all things considered Superman as a whole isn't THAT bad off. Things certainty can and should be better on all fronts,particularly in terms of his treatment in Comics and his continuity, but when you put it all in perspective,Superman is still a big franchise and one whose popularity outside of comics and nerd culture is still pretty damn strong. I mean even with the negative reviews for both ,his last two movies have made 1.5 billion worldwide. People as a whole all over the world still love Superman.

In another 20 years,if things continue to stay on the same course they are now? Yeah,we could see a time were Superman is no more relevant than than Tarzan or the Lone Ranger...but we aren't there yet and the optimist in me thinks within the next decade,things will turn around for the better.

[superduperman]

I'm of the belief that the reboot button needs to be pushed every decade or so. The Marvel way just leaves too much up in the air. That having been said, I think DC burned a lot of bridges with Superman. I don't know that there is anything they can do at this point that would pull him out of this spiral. At least not in the short term. The one area where he might be able to be salvaged is to give him a spin off from the Supergirl TV show. Try to make it fairly close to the comics by having him and Lois be married. They don't necessarily need to have a kid but make it clear they are together and she knows everything. And do a good job. Don't be afraid to use his whole rogues gallery. Terra Man, Prankster, Parasite, the whole bit. Not just have Luthor throw a few things at him.

Acknowledge the rest of the DCU. Make some reference to Gotham City or something. Use it as a way to get Superman back in the public's good graces. And give him an animated movie once in a while. Batman has a whole franchise of those.

[Francisco]

Yeah I agree it will take at least couple of decades more of mismanagement to finally kill the character. But I think that's exactly what's going to happen. Look at Tarzan and guys like The Phantom and Zorro. They all got married and had children... Hell they just like Superman, got married to the first women they ever met. Now they are basically dead franchises... And Superman is going right down that path too. Well at least he's got the WB covering his back and we can always have a reboot.

[dangleo61288]

Yeah I agree it will take at least couple of decades more of mismanagement to finally kill the character. But I think that's exactly what's going to happen. Look at Tarzan and guys like The Phantom and Zorro. They all got married and had children... Hell they just like Superman, got married to the first women they ever met. Now they are basically dead franchises... And Superman is going right down that path too. Well at least he's got the WB covering his back and we can always have a reboot.

Wow you are very pessimistic. A hero having a family is not a death sentence, it a progression. It gives a sense of reliability to the audience, and adds a heartwarming element. Also with Tarzan, Zorro and the Phantom, the situation is very different. Those guys are public domain. Anyone can make a Tarzan, Zorro, and Phantom movie or TV show. Superman is not and thanks to Disney and others, that will most likely will wont happen for the next 50 years or so. Superman will always for to be in the media in some from for DC to kept it. Also Superman has been presented outside of comics constantly every decade since he debuted. The radio show, cartoons and serials from the 40's. The live action show in the fifties, may have been a cartoon in the sixties, the Movie and play in the 70's, more movies plus the Superfriends, Superboy tv show, and ruby-spears cartoon in the 80's. The Lois and Clark tv show and cartoon in the 90's, the Justice League cartoon and Smallville and Superman Returns in the 2000's, and now a Movie, a shared Movie with Batman, another JL cartoon, and not to mention all the merchandise. So for anyone to say Superman is heading towards oblivion is insane

[dangleo61288]

Yeah I agree it will take at least couple of decades more of mismanagement to finally kill the character. But I think that's exactly what's going to happen. Look at Tarzan and guys like The Phantom and Zorro. They all got married and had children... Hell they just like Superman, got married to the first women they ever met. Now they are basically dead franchises... And Superman is going right down that path too. Well at least he's got the WB covering his back and we can always have a reboot.

Adding on to what I said above. Tarzan and Zorro both have had box office hits in the last 20 years. Phantom had a movie but it was terrible.

[Persona J]

I think the first two posts--from bat39 and Sacred Knight--said it perfectly. I'd want something similar to what they're proposing. And I have to say, I LOVE the idea that the events of "For the Man Who Has Everything" cause Superman to focus more on his Earthly life (at least for a time). It's a shame that, post-Crisis, that wasn't the take they went with--"human" stories for Superman could have easily been accomplished within established continuity (heck, Maggin did those all the time).

[Doctor Bifrost]

Look at Tarzan and guys like The Phantom and Zorro. They all got married and had children... Hell they just like Superman, got married to the first women they ever met. Now they are basically dead franchises...

Wow, you're absolutely right! Tarzan married Jane in The Return of Tarzan, 1913, a year after he was first introduced. After that he book series by Edgar Rice Burroughs only lasted until 1947 with Tarzan and the Foreign Legion, consisting of a mere 22 novels. (I'm not counting the two books published after ERB's death, with previously unpublished stories - with those we would get up to 1965 and 24 books.) The series only continued 34 years after the marriage of the characters, and Tarzan only went on to become one of the best-known fictional characters in the English-speaking world (and beyond).

Very little lasts forever. But the idea that the Tarzan franchise was ruined because the protagonist got married (in his second appearance) seems a little thin to me. And I just don't see any evidence that marriage is what caused the Phantom or Zorro to become less popular over the years. (Admittedly, I had no idea Zorro was married - certainly that's not the reason why he's not in my top five.)

After all, you don't see much of the Crimson Avenger these days - and to the best of my knowledge, he was never married. (Well, maybe they married him off in one of those Roy Thomas Remember-This-Guy? stories, but, if so, his "franchise" had faded long before.)

[SiegePerilous02]

Yeah I agree it will take at least couple of decades more of mismanagement to finally kill the character. But I think that's exactly what's going to happen. Look at Tarzan and guys like The Phantom and Zorro. They all got married and had children... Hell they just like Superman, got married to the first women they ever met. Now they are basically dead franchises... And Superman is going right down that path too. Well at least he's got the WB covering his back and we can always have a reboot.

Much like with Spider-Man, Superman's martial status has nothing to do with the overall quality of his stories. People read these things to see the hero do cool stuff and battle fun, interesting villains. If the book isn't delivering on those fronts, that's the problem. Their dating lives are pretty low on the list of priorities for most readers.

[Francisco]

Wow, you're absolutely right! Tarzan married Jane in The Return of Tarzan, 1913, a year after he was first introduced. After that he book series by Edgar Rice Burroughs only lasted until 1947 with Tarzan and the Foreign Legion, consisting of a mere 22 novels. (I'm not counting the two books published after ERB's death, with previously unpublished stories - with those we would get up to 1965 and 24 books.) The series only continued 34 years after the marriage of the characters, and Tarzan only went on to become one of the best-known fictional characters in the English-speaking world (and beyond).

Very little lasts forever. But the idea that the Tarzan franchise was ruined because the protagonist got married (in his second appearance) seems a little thin to me. And I just don't see any evidence that marriage is what caused the Phantom or Zorro to become less popular over the years. (Admittedly, I had no idea Zorro was married - certainly that's not the reason why he's not in my top five.)

After all, you don't see much of the Crimson Avenger these days - and to the best of my knowledge, he was never married. (Well, maybe they married him off in one of those Roy Thomas Remember-This-Guy? stories, but, if so, his "franchise" had faded long before.)

I'm not saying that marriage, kid and Lois Lane are the only reason for Superman's decline. There are other reasons as well but at the moment Lois, the kid and Batman invasion are my main concern. They are smothering the myth. Superman is supposed to be a youthful man of action not some middle aged family guy who can't do anything unless his wife and his masked friend without powers give him a hand.

[Kuwagaton]

Even though he hasn't had a cartoon in twenty years

That's a distorted way to put it. His cartoon started twenty years ago but ran for four. He then got five years as a core league member on that show and a cartoon where Superboy headed up the Legion for two years, in addition to the number of animated feature films between Superman solo and the JL. Whatever metrics used, he's easily top three for most successful superheroes in animation.

Not that this has anything to do with an origin. Though I can see one detail or another, like anything else, get held up as a sign of the times that Superman is squandered by those who choose to see it. I personally don't like the birthing matrix but it's not that bad. The important thing to me is that the other characters are free of the post crisis paradox wheel.

[Tayswift]

That's a distorted way to put it. His cartoon started twenty years ago but ran for four. He then got five years as a core league member on that show and a cartoon where Superboy headed up the Legion for two years, in addition to the number of animated feature films between Superman solo and the JL. Whatever metrics used, he's easily top three for most successful superheroes in animation.

Not that this has anything to do with an origin. Though I can see one detail or another, like anything else, get held up as a sign of the times that Superman is squandered by those who choose to see it. I personally don't like the birthing matrix but it's not that bad. The important thing to me is that the other characters are free of the post crisis paradox wheel.

true, superman had many animated features. nothing to complain here

[Francisco]

Yeah he had many animated features like All Star Superman which they butchered into an a hour and half movie while the Dark Knight Returns was turned into a 2 parter. I guess it is more interesting to see Superman getting his ass kicked instead of Superman been uplifted.

[Kuwagaton]

I didn't like the All Star adaptation but didn't bother to mention that since it's plainly off topic. This thread is not about Tarzan or how we don't like to see Superman lose to Batman, this is about the origin of Rebirth Superman.

[Lois]

I like the origin where he's launched in a rocket from a doomed planet, raised by a kindly couple on Earth, and goes to work for a great Metropolitan newspaper, while as a champion of the oppressed he fights a never-ending battle as Superman.

100% agree with you on that.
That's I would like to see too.