Explain it to me. Why do some think Lois Lane is suddenly detrimental to Supes?

[Kid_Quantum]

I get what you mean by this, but I disagree because it's a bit too shallow for me. Every new relationship put in place just to created some predetermined conflict, and do it all over again. Eventually it starts to not have as much impact no matter how you shake up the conflict because it's all ephemeral.

I think that same sense of introducing new people and new conflicts can be achieved with simply adding new friends, rivals, and foes into the mix. You cultivate some sort of relationship and then you shake it up by adding conflict or resolution depending on the person opposite of Superman. You get the same effect but with the added bonus of having new dynamics outside of "this is my new girl friend."

Yup.

That's exactly what i'm talking about. I said 'relationships'; everyone else seem's to have presumed 'girlfriends'.

I also think an active marriage/long term relationship can have conflict and resolution introduced to it as it evolves and grows. Same ol same ol is and oversimplification and underappreciated of what can be done.

While I am blissfully and ridiculously happily married (not really, but we've been together so long I just refer to my Better Half as my wife), that part life would make for some f*****g boring drama. The biggest conflict that's been had in the past six weeks is somewhere between what colour to paint the spare room or what we were having for dinner last Thursday.

What you said above about ephemeral conflicts goes double for Clark and Lois because now that they're married, they won't ever split.

Supermans relationship with his wife is solid. He's not really going to have other people come into his life and get that close anymore. He will have no other confidant other than his wife ever again; a person who won't challenge or hold him to account the way someone who isn't so vested in him could. He's never going to be lonely and he'll always have someone to come home to. They won't fall out, separate or divorce. Lois won't die

While it is lovely, I don't think that the loss of potential drama is worth it.

EDIT: To get back on topic; Lois as a character, in and of herself, has got to be one of, if not the best female character in comics.

[Kid_Quantum]

I liked Lois as she was portrayed by Teri Hatcher in that old Lois and Clark tv series.

Yes!

That show was awesome until they actually got together.

The 'Moonlighting' dynamic.

[Tayswift]

I definitely don't mind saying that she's one of his strongest connections to humanity, but I agree that I am SICK of "Superman loses Lois and immediately turns into a monster" stories.

Yes, Lois is important to him. Losing her WOULD hurt him badly. But to say that the loss of ANY one person in his life would completely unmake him as a hero is totally unacceptable. It's tantamount to saying that Superman isn't really a hero at all without some outside influence to keep him on the straight and narrow.

Besides injustice ( a extreme game) this ever happened? everytime lis is fridged, he just move on or get sad and get stuff done.

now nobody ask theirselves if superman dies, lois become a ditador and villain? hehe

While I am blissfully and ridiculously happily married (not really, but we've been together so long I just refer to my Better Half as my wife), that part life would make for some f*****g boring drama. The biggest conflict that's been had in the past six weeks is somewhere between what colour to paint the spare room or what we were having for dinner last Thursday.

What you said above about ephemeral conflicts goes double for Clark and Lois because now that they're married, they won't ever split.

Supermans relationship with his wife is solid. He's not really going to have other people come into his life and get that close anymore. He will have no other confidant other than his wife ever again; a person who won't challenge or hold him to account the way someone who isn't so vested in him could. He's never going to be lonely and he'll always have someone to come home to. They won't fall out, separate or divorce. Lois won't die

While it is lovely, I don't think that the loss of potential drama is worth it.

EDIT: To get back on topic; Lois as a character, in and of herself, has got to be one of, if not the best female character in comics.

well they live superhero life, there is lot of tension and drama.

[SiegePerilous02]

That's not the only thing to do with characters, tho. I find having the opportunity for multiple and varied relationships opens up the characters to multiple and varied conflicts. Story is driven by conflict. The same old of anything is what festers boredom.

There are plenty of conflicts that can be generated when the marriage is in place though. Marriages are never 100% easy, they require work from both partners. And that's not even getting into the conflicts that can emerge outside of the marriage. The supervillains Superman goes up against generate conflicts, and that's the main thing anybody buys superhero comics for. Not to mention his other relationships with friends and co-workers that don't just vanish because he's married to Lois. Basically the only thing we're losing is other shipping options, and that's no big loss. At this point, Lois has been Best Girl since 1938, and randomly pairing Clark up with another character isn't going to develop him further. Having them raise a child together is unexplored territory that a new relationship couldn't match.

[Kid_Quantum]

If we're only buying comics for the superhero life, then whats the point of Lois?

[Superlad93]

That's exactly what i'm talking about. I said 'relationships'; everyone else seem's to have presumed 'girlfriends'.

You'll have to forgive the presumptions. Your post made it seem like that's what you were talking about. That's my bad.

While I am blissfully and ridiculously happily married (not really, but we've been together so long I just refer to my Better Half as my wife), that part life would make for some f*****g boring drama. The biggest conflict that's been had in the past six weeks is somewhere between what colour to paint the spare room or what we were having for dinner last Thursday.

But, and I'm sure you're a great person, you're not Superman. Last Thursday Superman was likely in another galaxy. When Lois gets her job back she's going to be looking into the eyes of alien dictators, mad scientist, and corrupt heads of state and asking "can I quote you on that?" Jon's just taken the first steps into the world of the superheroes, and he'll soon be going on crazy adventures with the son of Batman/grand son of a global terrorist. Their lives haven't been and will likely never be "normal" in the sense that you or I know.

As Morrison says "when Superman walks his dog he walks him around Saturn." It's normal in the sense that we can relate to the core idea, but it's also fantastic because of the scale it's all on.

What you said above about ephemeral conflicts goes double for Clark and Lois because now that they're married, they won't ever split.

I can agree with that in some respects. But I ultimately it's beneficial because each conflict adds into a tapestry of the lives of three people. It grows and becomes more enriched as time goes on. This is far less likely to be the case when Superman is going from girlfriend conflict to girlfriend conflict. The girlfriends themselves become ephemeral because if a writer didn't want to have to deal with the last sticky situation Clark got himself into with a girl......well just stop writing her. Turn a blind eye and move on. If Clark and Lois ever get into it for any reason, that's a whole other ballgame. Lois isn't going anywhere. Writers have to reconstruct and add depth to the characters.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying it's an impossibility if it were simply just a gf. I'm not even saying that I wouldn't read about a Superman who dates other people. But what I am saying is that this sort of character depth is more likely in a situation like we have now, because you can't turn a blind eye to it if it's to icky for you to deal with. Will there be a big conflict between them every other issue? No, I very much doubt it. But when they are there, I think it'll be more impact in the long run.

Supermans relationship with his wife is solid. He's not really going to have other people come into his life and get that close anymore. He will have no other confidant other than his wife ever again;

I'm not sure how you can just assume that. I know lots of people (myself included) who love their significant other, but also feel the need to have friends and confidants outside of them. As guy you could love your significant other do death, but still feel that you can talk about some stuff with your close group of friends that you wouldn't fully unpack with your significant other. I think this is really common, actually.

He's never going to be lonely and he'll always have someone to come home to.

Reed Richards is surrounded by and ever-growing family and support system yet he finds himself feeling lonely or alienated at times, and he has to work through it with or without his family. He's a man that elects to put the weight of the world on his shoulders in the interest of his family and the people of the Earth. That sounds like it could be a Superman story or two right there. You may feel that since Clark has Jon then everything is perfect, but then Reed has Val (as smart or smarter than him) and Franklin yet he still sometimes feels the way he does.

Emotions don't simply come down to linear 1+1=2. As far as emotions go, 1+1=fish. It's messy and complex. Superman can run a virtual gambit of emotions with or without his family. One simply has to be clever enough to facilitate and follow through with it.

[Francisco]

Yes!

That show was awesome until they actually got together.

The 'Moonlighting' dynamic.

Yeah I think it was due to the writing dropping in quality once they got together. Everything became too convoluted. The frog cloning and then the Kryptonian arc.

[BeefBourguignon]

It's not Lois' fault - ultimately because she's fictional - , but I find spouses and long term partners seem to end up getting short shrift. They tend to end up playing little more than cheerleader (I'm looking at you Jurgens!).

Jurgens stands out as one of the best regular Lois writers of all. His Lois has always been quintessential modern Lois: independent, courageous, determined, compassionate, justice-seeking, human and vulnerable. It is unfair to say Lois' passive role in Path of Doom (which happens because of specific context, her role was what it was because of special circumstances of their lives at the moment) is standard example of Jurgens' Lois.

very nice that a man get to affirm that lois is the worse thing for women in comics, while majority of women love her. of course everyone is entitled to their opinion

Hm, I have to admit being a woman comics and Lois fan (and not because of romantic connection to Superman, though their relationship is a welcome bonus because they compliment each other so well 90% of the time imo),

[Doctor Bifrost]

If we're only buying comics for the superhero life, then whats the point of Lois?

"The superhero life"? You mean the fights and explosions? I'm buying comics for more than that, thanks.

I think it's important to the feel and context of the DCU for the superheroes to have non-superheroes as friends, romantic relationships, co-workers, and all the rest. It creates a contrast against which the fantastic elements can be seen more clearly (creating the ever-famous Sense of Wonder), and it makes it easier for the readers to identify with the characters, because they have some characteristics in common with us.

And, if a writer creates characters that are interesting, then even their non-superhero activities can be interesting. If you want me to read Barry Allen's adventures month after month, you have to give me something more than just "he's really fast!"

Otherwise you may as well just be playing SUPERHEROES:THE GATHERING, with everyone defined merely by their power levels. Boring for me.

Personally I think the DCU has neglected the non-superhero characters and the non-super aspects of its stories, to the detriment of its overall storytelling. Sometimes it reads like a parody - like normalman, a satire in which all but one of the characters in the world had superpowers.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I wasn't aware that this was that bad of a problem, but in light of similar situations (Mary Jane), I also wouldn't be surprised if it was true. My best guess is that it gets in the way of shipping options that other people prefer, which is even more ludicrous in this case than in the case of Spidey/MJ. Lois has been the main love interest since the dawn of time, and she's never going away. Let's cut the BS and just have them be together. Who else is there? Wonder Woman? No, Trinity shipping is awful and it shouldn't exist, because 9 times out of 10 she's the one getting the short end of the stick.

Lana, I guess? But that to me also seems ridiculous. Lana is a childhood love and longtime friend at best. She's that first girlfriend of yours who you never forget but realize you're not meant to be with. Only on the Smallville TV show does the idea of Lana as Clark's one true love have any traction.

I also never understand the people who act like a superhero being married limits the storytelling possibilities. It's not like Lois is attached to Clark at the hip while he's flying to other planets or battling Metallo. She doesn't have to be in every single story.

The Joe Quesada mindset that married=boring is just ludicrous.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Supermans relationship with his wife is solid. He's not really going to have other people come into his life and get that close anymore. He will have no other confidant other than his wife ever again; a person who won't challenge or hold him to account the way someone who isn't so vested in him could. He's never going to be lonely and he'll always have someone to come home to. They won't fall out, separate or divorce. Lois won't di

No offense, but that makes absolutely no sense. You know who else serves as someone's confidants and close companions? Their friends and family. Superman before Flashpoint, even when he was still married to Lois, confided in several other characters, especially when it came to matters like superheroing that Lois probably wouldn't understand. He confided in Steel, Powergirl, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Jimmy, Perry, even Batman. These people are not just there for background. They're there for Clark to interact with.

[Vinsanity]

Cause the writers don't write her well. I'm not a fan of Lois but I feel like she could do more in the DCverse than just being Lois connected to Superman. She'll always be connected to Superman but she can do so much more. Do I think Superman and her belong together? Nope but she is important to him. She's never a detriment but she could be a lot better, they all can.

[darkseidpwns]

Superman as a character has seen a massive decline in the last several years, he is seen as outdated and boring by considerable people so frustrated fans then resort to attacking the easiest target that they can find and that's Lois. When they further look at the likes of Batman and Iron Man their attacks intensify, for some time (New-52) the DC management started agreeing with those fans and thus gave us Superman/Wonder Woman ship which in many ways exacerbated the problem. For one it vindicated the stance of the haters that Superman needs to date Diana of all people to be considered cool, secondly it put Superman's love life in the spot light like it never had been before and a result it fuelled extremist Clois supporters who felt they got screwed over by a now mostly panned New-52 initiative, the final outcome is ofcourse shipper wars to which the franchise has been held hostage to. Lois wasn't a problem until the New-52 atrocity came along, now she is arguably a problem because she has more militant and insecure fans, their stance has been vindicated by the failure of the New-52 and now Superman is truly stuck with her in ways he never was in the past.

[Sacred Knight]

There were big problems with Lois's role well before New 52 came along. That it only started with the New 52 is just convenient revisionist history. They had been whiffing on any meaningful dynamic between the two and Lois as an individual character since at least the mid 2000s if not sooner. In fact its one of the issues I can see coming back with a vengeance in the not-too-distant future even with this new status quo. I can easily see the Superman and Superboy dynamic completely overshadowing Lois as a wife/mother very soon. The boy is going to get a lot of attention for some time to come now, and I have a really hard time seeing them equally ration out time with his father and mother as time goes on. Its going to skew greatly towards his father. Then other superheroes as he branches out. A year from now I bet people will be complaining that Jon gets more panel time with Damian than his mother.

[Kid_Quantum]

I contend - speaking from a decade of first hand experience - that a happily married life, looking from the outside in and from a perspective of dramatic narrative, is boring.

I think the whole thing could be squared if Lois was simply given a way to physically keep up with her boys. The Bat-Armour was a great example of this.

She's a phenomenal character. From a historical standpoint, she's been the #1 person to challenge and hold to account the most powerful being in the known universe. I feel that major part of that aspect is going to be lost when her role shifts to one of unwavering love and support.