The "Murder" of the Avengers? *Possible Spoilers: Lots of them*

[Frontier]

Logan (Wolverine) his real name is James Howlett

James Rhodes was War Machine, not Iron Patriot

Cap was not a founding member of the Avengers

Though after he joined he was retroactively honored as a founding Avenger even though he isn't one, which is why Cap is in the Avengers statue near Avengers Mansion.

[Tycon]

Probably another reason to expect he won't stick around with the team for very long.

Idk I feel like Mark Waid won’t “Duggan” Spidey out of the book. It might just be that Spidey isn’t a big part of the Kang War since he won’t be in the focus issues (ANAD Avengers CWII issues).

Well, I hate to say this because I like Miles but... they brought the underprivileged black kid to this universe for a reason.

Uh. I was referring to Waid’s Avengers lineup. Miles isn’t underprivileged in the least. Both his parents are THERE and they have nice paying jobs (or at least that’s what’s implied since he gets to go to a boarding school)

[Frontier]

Idk I feel like Mark Waid won’t “Duggan” Spidey out of the book. It might just be that Spidey isn’t a big part of the Kang War since he won’t be in the focus issues (ANAD Avengers CWII issues).

I could actually totally see Waid pulling a "Duggan" on Spidey .

[Ken Ashcroft]

Though after he joined he was retroactively honored as a founding Avenger even though he isn't one, which is why Cap is in the Avengers statue near Avengers Mansion.

He was given 'founder status' but I don't know if that's the same as being called a founding member? I think even Cap would find it strange calling himself a founding Avenger when he clearly wasn't there when the Avengers were founded.As for the Hulk, wasn't he stripped of his founder status at the time that statues were put up yet they still put a statue of him up with the others so I guess that while they could give his founder status to Cap they couldn't deny that he was still an founding member.

All sounds pretty straight forward,huh?

[Xelossik]

So there is a chance that the only founder Avenger will be working for Hydra?
nice

Champions will need event when they will beat old heroes to show them how they should act...

[Ken Ashcroft]

They should go and earn the right to use that name first by going and beating up the previous Champions team.

[Conway]

Idk I feel like Mark Waid won’t “Duggan” Spidey out of the book. It might just be that Spidey isn’t a big part of the Kang War since he won’t be in the focus issues (ANAD Avengers CWII issues).

Uh. I was referring to Waid’s Avengers lineup. Miles isn’t underprivileged in the least. Both his parents are THERE and they have nice paying jobs (or at least that’s what’s implied since he gets to go to a boarding school)

I was too, Miles has been playing a huge role Civil War II. Didn't he even square off against Steve? Do you really think they're going to give him a role that big and not put him in the main Avengers title?

Also, I should apologize for the "underprivileged" qualifier. I thought his dad had run away and his stressful life was in danger of costing him the "Student Aid" that he had to keep his grades up to qualify for. But everything changes fast in the MU if you're not watching.

I'm just surprised all of this went down with such little fanfare. Sure Steve becoming Hydra was first page news, Tony leaving Iron Man was only covered because of the movies, and the insanity that happened when they announced female Thor made that reportable. Wolverine was sort of covered and sort of not, it was a side event. Yes Banner/Rhodes/Barton was was a major event but it wasn't exactly the talk of the LCS, Black Widow was as quiet a removal as possible,

And Pym was killed (this time) in what is basically a Deadpool book!

This is an awful lot of sales power to leave either sitting on the sideline (or in the "grave") or being a villain. Was it really by accident?

[Raye]

I was too, Miles has been playing a huge role Civil War II. Didn't he even square off against Steve? Do you really think they're going to give him a role that big and not put him in the main Avengers title?

That's the whole point of the Champions, though. They're fed up with how the Avengers are doing things so they're forming a new team, I don't think he'd WANT to be on an Avengers team in the near future. A big role doesn't automatically have to equal 'Avenger'. Marvel is trying ot make it so that Champions IS the flagship book in the new Now. Why do you think they pushed so hard to get it to sell over 400k?

[Digifiend]

James Rhodes was War Machine, not Iron Patriot

He's used both codenames, but yeah, he was War Machine when he was killed.

[Tycon]

I was too, Miles has been playing a huge role Civil War II. Didn't he even square off against Steve? Do you really think they're going to give him a role that big and not put him in the main Avengers title?

Also, I should apologize for the "underprivileged" qualifier. I thought his dad had run away and his stressful life was in danger of costing him the "Student Aid" that he had to keep his grades up to qualify for. But everything changes fast in the MU if you're not watching.

I'm just surprised all of this went down with such little fanfare. Sure Steve becoming Hydra was first page news, Tony leaving Iron Man was only covered because of the movies, and the insanity that happened when they announced female Thor made that reportable. Wolverine was sort of covered and sort of not, it was a side event. Yes Banner/Rhodes/Barton was was a major event but it wasn't exactly the talk of the LCS, Black Widow was as quiet a removal as possible,

And Pym was killed (this time) in what is basically a Deadpool book!

This is an awful lot of sales power to leave either sitting on the sideline (or in the "grave") or being a villain. Was it really by accident?

Miels seems to be the Peter Parker of the Second Civil War, especially when you consider his tie-in. Also, that's the cover to Civil War II #6 and we aren't sure what the cover necessarily means. The whole "his dad runs out on him" was when he was in 1610 when he was in Catalysm. Also, Pym was killed/merged in Rage of Ultron where Deadpool isn't even a member of the Uncanny Avengers. Also, I don't think Deadpool is getting as much focus as let's say....Rogue or Cable or Synapse (around the same as her honestly).

I could actually totally see Waid pulling a "Duggan" on Spidey .

I could too but so close to Uncanny Avengers?

[jackolover]

He's still Thor, no one took his name away. he's just depressed and acting a bit irrationally. He's still around, though not on the Avengers at the moment, and will be back very soon in his own book.

Fury is not dead, he is 'The Unseen' and yeah, pretty much replacement Watcher.

Namor, apparently, will be resurrected soon if solicits are anything to go on.

Many of the others, i am sure their status is not permanent. And some of them, such as Bucky, well, finding themselves on the run isn't terribly new for them anyway.

but it does seem that Marvel is playing with the idea that a lot of the 'Old Guard' have lost touch with those who they are supposed to be protecting, and honestly it's hard to argue this. Many of them have become more concerned with superhero politics than they are with helping people, (and I am not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, it's made for some interesting stories and the same thing often happens with like, the police and military) and it's up to the new guard to remind them what a hero is supposed to be doing.

I think young Nadia Pym has this opinion of the oldie super heroes being out of touch too, because she freaked when told they are fighting over politics. So I'm not surprised the youths of the super hero fraternity might be thinking, the oldies are too senile to be heroic anymore.

[Conway]

Miels seems to be the Peter Parker of the Second Civil War, especially when you consider his tie-in. Also, that's the cover to Civil War II #6 and we aren't sure what the cover necessarily means. The whole "his dad runs out on him" was when he was in 1610 when he was in Catalysm. Also, Pym was killed/merged in Rage of Ultron where Deadpool isn't even a member of the Uncanny Avengers. Also, I don't think Deadpool is getting as much focus as let's say....Rogue or Cable or Synapse (around the same as her honestly).

I did say "last time", they threw the Hank Pym/Ultron villain into the sun, not actually an Avenger but that is about as "final" a death as it gets around here. They've been pretty good about giving everyone some time. Rouge probably gets the most actual story time, but Johnny and Pietro have pretty good stories too. The one thing every issue has in common though is that Deadpool gets time, and everyone questions if it's okay to work with Deadpool. Half the time he's the one that saves the day. Cable's story was actually Wade hunting down Cable. Pietro's story was told while he was defending the old Avengers Mansion with Wade. Rouge questions Wade's allegiance in every arc and then he comes through. Steve's entire dialogue is some version of "Deadpool is okay." Over half of the last issue was a Wade Wilson solo. So yeah, it's a Deadpool book. But it's also a good idea that just keeps getting interrupted by the rest of the MU. I enjoy it.

I could too but so close to Uncanny Avengers?

Something's in the air.

[TakoM]

In order to advance the story lines things have to change, I recognize that. Still I noticed something recently while reading The Uncanny Avengers, they're all "dead". I'm not sure what it means but here's a rundown:

Founding Avengers:
Hank Pym (Ant-Man, Giant-Man, etc.) - Thrown into the sun in the last arc of Uncanny Avengers
Bruce Banner (Hulk) - Shot in the head by Clint Barton (Hawkeye)
Thor - I'm not totally clear, but Thor isn't Thor, and the new Thor is dying from breast cancer?
Tony Stark (Iron Man) - again I'm not sure about the final outcome but by now we all know that Tony isn't going to be Iron Man much longer
Steve Rogers (Captain America) - He's not old and weak anymore, but he is Hydra and a villain now.
Janet van Dyne (Wasp) - The one member that is usually dead actually "found the amulet" again and is the only one alive and working as an Avenger

Movie Founding Avengers:
Natasha Romanov (Black Widow) - She is currently wanted by S.H.I.E.L.D., her Avengers membership was revoked, she's on the run and might be trying to do good.
Clint Barton (Hawkeye) - In prison for killing Bruce Banner (Hulk)
Nick Fury - "Dead" on the moon, might be the new watcher

Other key classic Avengers:
Logan (Wolverine) - "Dead" or an Old Man without healing factor (I'm not entirely sure)
Namor (Prince of the Seas) - "Dead" (not sure but it was referenced in Thunderbolts)
James "Roadie" Rhodes (Iron Patriot) - Death by Captain Marvel
James "Bucky" Barnes (Winter Soldier, Captain America, Man on the Wall) - Wanted by everyone on the planet good or bad.

New Avengers/Illuminati:
Charles Xavier (Professor X) - Dead and currently part of the Red Skull?
Reed Richards (Mr. Fantastic) - Missing (although The Maker is around isn't he?)
Black Bolt - Dead, or Missing or Trapped maybe? (I've only seen Medusa since SW)

That is just about everyone that has driven the Avengers line forward since their creation. That is just about every brain in the world except Parker, McCoy, T'challa, and the new kids like Cho. That is just about every major non-mutant character (except Spidey) since Stan Lee started.

I realize we're on the heels of a major event, but am I the only one that feels like this is the set-up for something huge? Clearly the Captain America-Winter Soldier-Cosmic Cube-Red Skull story is going somewhere, but this is huge. Anyone have an idea? Did I miss anyone that is missing?

You forgot :
Jean Grey, Adam Warlock, Cyclops, Richard Raider , hmmm what is with the original Archeangel still without soul ?

I noticed this trend already 2014 when I joined the board Marvel keep killing off their A class IPs just like in the Ultimate Universe.
You can see this also on Tony Stark first they made him the scapegoat in CW1 , then they redeemed him over a longer story then for 1 arc and a half he was back to be Tony (with some recons at the end) then they grilled him with first with TRO and them with SIM giving the character very little space to be redeemable.

Making Bendis the new author was their way to pull him out of this just through his name (+ good art) but what the fans wanted or at least some was this "miracle" what Tony makes Tony again after they realized it wouldn't come the sales dropped and now new characters will play Iron-man .

Maybe a bit too complex in short it goes roughly like this tainting, reconning(is this a word?), and cleaning him again until it not possible then replace him , depending on the circumstances the original will be killed off before or after the new version shows up, then the fans wait that he shows up again but he/she won't so the sales droops and the books will be closed.

The only cases were this has kinda worked was Nova and Miss Marvel.

About is their a plan behind this ? Yes the marketing to making stupidly simple money with basically a story which could be written by a 10 year old in many cases.
Okay it is a bit more complex to make everything fit but there is a lot of vacuum in some stories. Back when TRO started I also had the idea that marvel wanted to aim at a soft-reboot to straight things out like they did with Avengers Forever or that they might start a new continuum with a more classic line.

In the end it was a no and the UU line was cancelled (+ UU reed went completely nut).

Where will this all end ? Pfff in less comic readers for Marvel I think in the long run.

[WaxHawk]

It is pretty stark when it is laid out like this.

I know that there is a 'wheel of life' that comic characters go through but so many of the 'classic' characters are near the bottom at the moment - it doesn't really seemed balanced atm. Some characters look like they might be swinging up in the near future (e.g Thor, Hawk-Eye, Dr.Strange).

I suppose there is potential there for really good stories for these characters, lets hope there are some ideas behind the scenes we can read some of these stories in the near future. Well, these are the kinds of comics I like anyway.

This is opposed to recent stories which have these characters in them but aren't necessarily good for them. (But I suspect these are the kinds of stories people are enjoying at the moment/selling comics).

[mace11]

James "Rhodey" Rhodes was killed by Thanos within CIVIL WAR II #1,

War Machine
Appearance of Death
Free Comic Book Day Vol 2016 Avengers
or
Free Comic Book Day 2016 (Civil War II) (2016)



http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Free_Co..._2016_Avengers