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  1. #31
    MXAAGVNIEETRO IS RIGHT MyriVerse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeWithoutFear View Post
    Remember when comic books used to have villains in them? *shrug*
    Still do. *glares at the Inhumans*
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seren View Post
    Yes there are parallels but there's a lot of subtle differences you'd see if you read the book. The inhumans are still very different than the X-Men.

    Not that it matters anyway because ANI is cancelled like the many here wanted so it's a moot point.
    not to slight the Inhumans, but could you describe some of the subtle differences? Crystal's book feels like an x-book, to me.

  3. #33
    Incredible Member Doc Sonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    not to slight the Inhumans, but could you describe some of the subtle differences? Crystal's book feels like an x-book, to me.
    That's a difficult question to answer. There are indeed some similarities between All New Inhumans and the Claremont era X-Men, but there are a lot of differences too. The similarities are mostly surface level (finding and training new Inhumans, Gorgon's being confined to a wheelchair). Whereas the differences lie more in the overarching thematic (addressing the matters of culture, difference, and xenophobia in a much more post-modern fashion). If you don't want to see these differences, if you're invested in seeing All New Inhumans as merely a rip-off of the 1980's X-Men, then that is what you're going to see.

    Perhaps the real animosity on the part of X-fans toward All new Inhumans is due to the fact that ANI has recaptured the general spirit of Claremont era X-Men in a way the actual X-books hasn't been able to achieve for years.

  4. #34
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    The main difference between the Inhumans and X-Men to me is that the inhumans have a complex singular culture where the X-Men do not. In fact, a strong theme of the X-Men is theme of diversity so you have mutants from many different countries with different cultures.
    The inhumans aren't like that. They have a culture of their own mostly built around their origins and how they get their powers. The last arc of ANI dealt with a sub-section of inhumans living in Africa and their society.

    An X-Men book really wouldn't have anything like that in it and it shouldn't because they deal with different themes and issues than the inhumans do. And that's fine.
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  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Sonic View Post
    That's a difficult question to answer. There are indeed some similarities between All New Inhumans and the Claremont era X-Men, but there are a lot of differences too. The similarities are mostly surface level (finding and training new Inhumans, Gorgon's being confined to a wheelchair). Whereas the differences lie more in the overarching thematic (addressing the matters of culture, difference, and xenophobia in a much more post-modern fashion). If you don't want to see these differences, if you're invested in seeing All New Inhumans as merely a rip-off of the 1980's X-Men, then that is what you're going to see.

    Perhaps the real animosity on the part of X-fans toward All new Inhumans is due to the fact that ANI has recaptured the general spirit of Claremont era X-Men in a way the actual X-books hasn't been able to achieve for years.
    ANI are the X-mens when not having to deal with this %#*$ plot of extinction that lasts more than 12 years if marvel and Bendis really wanted to have led forward the mutant revolution but as we know there is the issue of copyrights movies and the feud with Fox.This was the expectation that many had at the end of AvX a new beginning for mutants.

    Of course ANI would meet resistance from readers is how to see Daredevil and Punisher swapping roles can not really do it for a long time. On the other hand Uncanny Inhumans with the classic characters and focused on the most common to the Inhumans themes like royalty and game of Trones continued to be strong.

    Some readers have realized but the situation is really delicate marvel just need a good movie with the Inhumans to bury the X-mens and boost sales of the Inhumans. On the other hand if Marvel get back the rights of X-mens can be sure they will not think twice to forget the Inhumans and come back to promoting mutants is how things are unfortunately.
    Last edited by Knives; 09-09-2016 at 03:35 PM.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Sorry double post.
    Last edited by Knives; 09-09-2016 at 03:26 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    Let's see

    The fact that travel the world saving and rescuing Inhumans who have just awaken his powers in a aircraft ok .
    Training and education in inhuman culture that recalls a certain school ok.
    An instructor in a wheelchair ok .
    Conflicts with leaders of countries that have a negative view of the Inhumans which causes a battle where the villains use technology to win the super beings ok.
    Conflicts of identity and race among the new Inhumans who are divided on their new condition and culture where they were born or family (ANI annual especially) ok.

    Some of the new Inhumans are dangerous or adopt villainy and it is up to the Inhumans stop them which creates conflict with the authorities despite good intentions ok.
    Hatred and prejudice against Inhumans for humans ok.

    Unlike Uncanny Inhumans it is hard to ignore that ANI has too many similarities to the X-mens. And will not even talk about the Inhumans and Agents of Shield.
    But I'm sure you disagree then it will go nowhere so I ask believes that there is room for both groups at Marvel? How?

    Know the fans of the Inhumans only want the best for them but the X-mens fans' point of view is ANI are doing exactly what the X-mens always did.
    So IN Terms, X-Men Now have a Patent on these Things and No-One can EVER use any of them again?!

    Interesting, I guess we should got tell DC's Doom Patrol that the guy in the Wheelchair is a copycat of Charles X Now, or Any other comic company that uses such parrels should now expect the long finger of being called X-Men Story Sealers if say DC made a new race of super-beings and such of the similar things would happen those books too, which they Would!

    Most of these things and story-points are not holy-owned by the X-Men, they are common-sense activities that such would both see and have to deal with in those manners. I think to much TRYING to see them as parrels to the X-Men like it is stealing the X-Men to make the Inhumans into the X-Men just adds to the Anti-Complexer Beliefs that many are just trying to find ways to Politically Discredit the Inhumans to put them back in their place under the X-Men.

    These approaches are not holy-owned, anyone can used them for any story so long as it is not taking direct near-clones lookalikes of the characters to make them happen. Inhumans just have as much right to use these presentations of their stories as much as say DC all the sudden made All-New Atlanteans and the Atlanteans and Aquaman would pursue similar courses and find similar situations.

    Like Seren said, the way the characters of the Inhumans and their Kingdom go about this have MAJOR differences, but in the end the situations being shown that the Inhumans are dealing with are not Holy-Owned by X-Men, they are universal story-lines that any-company or story teller can use.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seren View Post
    Yes there are parallels but there's a lot of subtle differences you'd see if you read the book. The inhumans are still very different than the X-Men.

    Not that it matters anyway because ANI is cancelled like the many here wanted so it's a moot point.
    VASTLY Different and Honestly NOT something you should get yourself so much into a topic of defending the Inhumans over Seren, those story points, plots and styles are universal in nature and use. Any Comic, Movie, Sci-fi, Anime, Manga, TV, Novel or any other series dealing with the fallout of a new Race of beings that changes the make-up 180 Degrees would have some similar parrels indeed. They are Not Holy-Own by one comic book team or company.

    Also don't lessen your love of All-New Inhumans cause it was cancelled, cancelled does not mean bad, heck we have the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek this week and it was cancelled rather fast when it premiered and look at it NOW! Now really I am not saying All-New Inhumans is Star Trek level stuff, but it is to my point, cancelled does not mean bad or fail, what is bad or fail is if the story is received as bad by those that most care about it. If it is received well or above then it is a Success with Fans that care about it, Inhumans is NEW and needs time to grow on people and new Fans.

    HECK, it did for Me, COUNT me as one that was WON over and I am an X-Fan since the Late 1980's!
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeWithoutFear View Post
    Remember when comic books used to have villains in them? *shrug*
    Quote Originally Posted by MyriVerse View Post
    Still do. *glares at the Inhumans*
    I would ask if this is really a serious point or not, but by how many have been cheering for this Inhumans dislike and it going into IvX I am not much suprised.

    But really my next point is more towards the comments that JoeWithoutFear that I view can really be gotten at by my view;

    To many here say to stand and hate on the story plot point that Hero-vs.-Hero is the WORST thing to happen to comics and is destroying comics all together in all companys! BUTTTTT, when it is a Hero-vs.-Hero that somehow by our own headcannon will let us FINALLY show-up those characters that are heroes that we don't like or have a grudge against, THEN we are all for it! Really stick to our guns on promises and ideologies don't we.

    It's no wonder why comic company's don't take our displeasure as fans with these controversial courses really seriously. They know if they poke at our need for wanted-payback at someone(s) or something(s) in a comic, we will fold and be all for it.

    What should be worrying to us is how easy we fold and want for this blood as a means to getting justice, yet the justice that it seems we want so badly by getting this blood really solves nothing, only divides the fanbases more. This sadly leads to more justifications that these characters need to be separated into their own universes to keep them pure and from the taint with interacting with those "OTHER" characters we don't like cause of reasons.

    In the end we get the universe those of us deserve by what we cheer for in wanting, don't be suprised when what you get is not want you wanted.

    I pretty much can come-down to this too:





    We are here to see Hero blood rolling and thinking we are getting what we want, but by the end we are left empty and speechless like that crowd.
    Last edited by CJStriker; 09-09-2016 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Forgot an Important Point.
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  10. #40
    Incredible Member Doc Sonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    ANI are the X-mens when not having to deal with this %#*$ plot of extinction that lasts more than 12 years if marvel and Bendis really wanted to have led forward the mutant revolution but as we know there is the issue of copyrights movies and the feud with Fox.This was the expectation that many had at the end of AvX a new beginning for mutants.
    Of course ANI would meet resistance from readers is how to see Daredevil and Punisher swapping roles can not really do it for a long time. On the other hand Uncanny Inhumans with the classic characters and focused on the most common to the Inhumans themes like royalty and game of Trones continued to be strong.
    It's a limited perspective to think that the whole notion of marginalized people coping with oppression, banding together and whatnot is wholly owned by the X-books; that any other team addressing such themes are mere imitators. Although the biggest difference between The X-Men and the All New Inhumans is that ANI takes on matters of diversity with a cast that is actually diverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    Some readers have realized but the situation is really delicate marvel just need a good movie with the Inhumans to bury the X-mens and boost sales of the Inhumans. On the other hand if Marvel get back the rights of X-mens can be sure they will not think twice to forget the Inhumans and come back to promoting mutants is how things are unfortunately.
    I wouldn't hold my breath. But the Inhumans have gotten just as screwed over by the corporate politicking as the X-Men have. Internal disputes between Marvel films and ABC has led to constant undermining of the Agents of Shield plot-line. It's a much safer bet that Marvel Films and Fox will reach an accord similar to that established between Marvel and Sony. If Spider-Man Homecoming is a smash hit, it's quite likely a joint Marvel/Fox X-Men movie will be made.
    Maybe then all the conspiracy kvetchers will calm themselves... possibly even pick up the trade paperbacks for ANI and realize what an amazing comic they missed out on...

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    So IN Terms, X-Men Now have a Patent on these Things and No-One can EVER use any of them again?!

    Interesting, I guess we should got tell DC's Doom Patrol that the guy in the Wheelchair is a copycat of Charles X Now, or Any other comic company that uses such parrels should now expect the long finger of being called X-Men Story Sealers if say DC made a new race of super-beings and such of the similar things would happen those books too, which they Would!

    Most of these things and story-points are not holy-owned by the X-Men, they are common-sense activities that such would both see and have to deal with in those manners. I think to much TRYING to see them as parrels to the X-Men like it is stealing the X-Men to make the Inhumans into the X-Men just adds to the Anti-Complexer Beliefs that many are just trying to find ways to Politically Discredit the Inhumans to put them back in their place under the X-Men.

    These approaches are not holy-owned, anyone can used them for any story so long as it is not taking direct near-clones lookalikes of the characters to make them happen. Inhumans just have as much right to use these presentations of their stories as much as say DC all the sudden made All-New Atlanteans and the Atlanteans and Aquaman would pursue similar courses and find similar situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Sonic View Post
    It's a limited perspective to think that the whole notion of marginalized people coping with oppression, banding together and whatnot is wholly owned by the X-books; that any other team addressing such themes are mere imitators. Although the biggest difference between The X-Men and the All New Inhumans is that ANI takes on matters of diversity with a cast that is actually diverse.
    Of course not, but what differs for example the Justice League of the Avengers? Or Titans of the X-mens? You can play and change the dynamics from time to time but Superman never will be Batman and the opposite is also true. From time to time you can change backgrounds and details to give new breath and a new life to characters it is necessary but it is different to change something because of copyright fans will realize this and obviously many will not like or at least to question hehe.

    See for example Steven Universe that addresses issues of prejudice and lgbt yet no one compares with the X-mens or other works because it has a different style.

    You may have a superior Spider Man or Lady Thor but we know that these changes are not permanent. But this was not the intention with ANI and we know very well.

    I will not say the stories of ANI were bad and deserved to be canceled just the opposite from what heard was getting good reviews and Crystal was great. But we go back to are saying you can not turn Superman in Batman. The Inhumans has its own dynamics insert elements of the X-mens and hope that can replace them is a big bet and now we have a response from readers. Just do not know if Marvel will give up or change the strategy.


    It also shows the dissatisfaction of fans of the mutants with current stories of the X-mens are no longer a group that was fighting for changes in society and became a group of survivors and Marvel not let them move on leaving this plot to not give material for Fox which brings us to IvX if all else fails at least they will make a gain with another fight between heroes.

  12. #42
    Incredible Member Doc Sonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    Of course not, but what differs for example the Justice League of the Avengers? Or Titans of the X-mens? You can play and change the dynamics from time to time but Superman never will be Batman and the opposite is also true. From time to time you can change backgrounds and details to give new breath and a new life to characters it is necessary but it is different to change something because of copyright fans will realize this and obviously many will not like or at least to question hehe.
    See for example Steven Universe that addresses issues of prejudice and lgbt yet no one compares with the X-mens or other works because it has a different style.
    You may have a superior Spider Man or Lady Thor but we know that these changes are not permanent. But this was not the intention with ANI and we know very well.
    I will not say the stories of ANI were bad and deserved to be canceled just the opposite from what heard was getting good reviews and Crystal was great. But we go back to are saying you can not turn Superman in Batman. The Inhumans has its own dynamics insert elements of the X-mens and hope that can replace them is a big bet and now we have a response from readers. Just do not know if Marvel will give up or change the strategy.
    That's well said, but I feel it's a false equivalency to suggest ANI is simply Inhumans forced into the role of X-Men. And I think if you or many of the other critics had actually read the books, then the differences would be much easier to notice.
    One of the key differences is that ANI has explored the matters of difference and oppression within a cultural perspective. You have this old and in many ways backwards culture of Attilan adjusting to being forced into a more globalized world, coupled with all of these new Inhumans (from all over the world) struggling with their new status as Inhumans while at the same time hold onto their original roots and personal idiosynchaeies. Race and culture are two different things, but they are frequently keenly intertwined. It's a matter the X-books have rarely addressed and ANI sort of made it its mantra.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    Of course not, but what differs for example the Justice League of the Avengers? Or Titans of the X-mens? You can play and change the dynamics from time to time but Superman never will be Batman and the opposite is also true. From time to time you can change backgrounds and details to give new breath and a new life to characters it is necessary but it is different to change something because of copyright fans will realize this and obviously many will not like or at least to question hehe.

    See for example Steven Universe that addresses issues of prejudice and lgbt yet no one compares with the X-mens or other works because it has a different style.

    You may have a superior Spider Man or Lady Thor but we know that these changes are not permanent. But this was not the intention with ANI and we know very well.

    I will not say the stories of ANI were bad and deserved to be canceled just the opposite from what heard was getting good reviews and Crystal was great. But we go back to are saying you can not turn Superman in Batman. The Inhumans has its own dynamics insert elements of the X-mens and hope that can replace them is a big bet and now we have a response from readers. Just do not know if Marvel will give up or change the strategy.


    It also shows the dissatisfaction of fans of the mutants with current stories of the X-mens are no longer a group that was fighting for changes in society and became a group of survivors and Marvel not let them move on leaving this plot to not give material for Fox which brings us to IvX if all else fails at least they will make a gain with another fight between heroes.
    That is the problem, it is not a universal response from Readers, it is a mixed response from readers of mutants with to many who are fans of mutants and X-Men actively admitting to boycotting a Good Book in hopes that Marvel will respond to them by dumping Inhumans and just making more X-Men books while NO Consideration is given to the care, depth, love and story of the Inhumans books. You did say it was a good book, that is good, but fellow fans of the X Actively boycotting a book in hopes for a response to punish Marvel seems more like a personal cause then one that will achieve active results. The only thing that is actively accomplished is the punishing those fans of those characters(Inhumans in this Case), who feel they are being wrongfully targeted for hate and railroading of their characters for a political campaigning they never wanted to be apart off.

    This has lead me to question even my OWN Boycott of IvX, if it really is more of a personal sanctification since it will lead to no real changes What-So-Ever.

    A more real and respectful way to respond is to activity approach this with more Petitions and Social Media campaigns to 1.) Start to slowly and realistically turn the ship around on the WHOLE Copyright Wars over X-Men and with that Fantastic Four too, to have a more even usage of the characters so Marvel DOES NOT Fell it is losing Money on Promoting the X-men and make NO-Mistake, this is the HEART of all of this, $$$$$ Lose cause Marvel does not get as much for using X-Men right now. But the 2.) Is after the boat is turned enough down the road to actively not only showing Marvel is making the right move by them making agreements to usage X-Men and FF more, but when more projects come along to use them again, X-Men and FF, that the Inhumans are not brushed under the rug to make way for Mutants again either. Marvel has been shown with a wider universe it can Succeed Greater then only using a Handful of the Same characters (2014's Guardians of the Galaxy Anyone).

    What many X-Fans and Complexers fail to understand in that in their own War on Marvel over their frustration with the Copyright Battle and X-Fans HAVE Good Reasons to be frustrated and Angry, is that THAT battle is leaving a wake of Destruction on other Franchises like Inhumans as a Sacrificial-Lamb by to many to show what seems to be a Active Boycott to Railroad and Hate on them in an attempt to MAKE Marvel Use X-Men and Mutants more BEFORE the Real Problem, namely the Copyright $$$$$ Core Issue is even resolved.

    That ends up being more Personal Gratification Gains among fans believing they "GAINED" a Victory only to find in a Year the Problems and Lesser use of X-Men and Mutants is STILL going on. All that has changed is More Fans of Other Franchises Like Inhumans have now become Frustrated and Bitter with X-Fans over this Conflict. Instead of working with each other, they get belittled and thrown under the bus by having their Favorites Called Losers, Never Popular or Others High-Fiving when something like ALL-NEW Inhumans gets cancelled. How, when this is over, do we expect the landscape to look by then?

    The Getting-at-Point is that No real message was sent to Marvel with this Inhuman Boycott or Campaigning against them. They could care less about 1 canceled book, they just Re-Release Every Year now it seems and so they start over. Until Fans Actively Petition Marvel to soften these Copyright Laws for the good of the Franchises, all that We X-Fans are doing is making Self-Gratifying Crusades that end up separating us from other Fanbases.
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  14. #44
    Incredible Member Doc Sonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    ...The Getting-at-Point is that No real message was sent to Marvel with this Inhuman Boycott or Campaigning against them. They could care less about 1 canceled book, they just Re-Release Every Year now it seems and so they start over. Until Fans Actively Petition Marvel to soften these Copyright Laws for the good of the Franchises, all that We X-Fans are doing is making Self-Gratifying Crusades that end up separating us from other Fanbases.
    Excellent. Very well said. Boycotting Inhuman books does nothing to actually improve the situation for the X-books or Fantastic Four. All it achieves is sour Inhuman fans (and creators) toward the X-books.

  15. #45
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    CJStriker is On Point tonight. Well said!!
    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
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