Evil Superman

[Francisco]

While posting on another thread this idea came to my mind. What would it take for Superman to turn to evil? What would it take to break the man of steel?
Injustice tells us that if Lois Lane (and their unborn baby) were to be killed (by him under mind control) he would go evil and never comeback. I disagree with that notion. I do think he would go mad with rage and I'm sure he would have killed the Joker just the way he did. The other stuff he did afterwards is nonsensical and completely out of character. Imo.
I think once Clark Kent reaches maturity once he becomes a man, he won't be corrupted no matter the situation. (unless a magic spell?) I think the only way to corrupt Superman is to have him being raised by someone like Lex Luthor or Darkseid. For him to embrace evil it needs to be fed to him since childhood. The Kents are the key not Lois Lane or anyone he meets later in life no matter how close their relationship may be. Do you see Superman as someone inherently good who would be heroic no matter who raised him? Or do you believe the Kents were key element for him to become the man he is?

[adrikito]

I remember Kingdom Come.. and that.. is the reaction that you would expect from superman....

No, I will change the world as his dictator..

I hate Injustice and Lord Superman, the second even old, was a stupid man, I see him in JL Beyond..

[superduperman]

To me, the Injustice Superman strikes me as flawed on his premise. It would be interesting to do a flashback to his childhood that suggests something happened to him that set him apart from other versions of the character. Maybe he watched someone die and couldn't stop it. That's the only thing I can think of that would set him on that path. "That's twice now I couldn't stop someone a care about from being killed! I have to make it so it never happens again!"

[DieHard200904]

I remember Kingdom Come.. and that.. is the reaction that you would expect from superman....

No, I will change the world as his dictator..

I hate Injustice and Lord Superman, the second even old, was a stupid man, I see him in JL Beyond..

Justice Lord was perhaps the most rediculous in the premise. He stopped Lex Luthor from actually starting nuclear war. So basically, he became a tyrant after saving the world, which in abstract thinking, is a little rediculous.

[DieHard200904]

To me, the Injustice Superman strikes me as flawed on his premise. It would be interesting to do a flashback to his childhood that suggests something happened to him that set him apart from other versions of the character. Maybe he watched someone die and couldn't stop it. That's the only thing I can think of that would set him on that path. "That's twice now I couldn't stop someone a care about from being killed! I have to make it so it never happens again!"

I get the impression that if they were to do Injustice background, you would have dead Kent parents, and somehow, he blames himself for not saving the Kents. If there was some kind of Injustice prequel, I would say that would be the likely setup to it.

[suemorphplus209]

While posting on another thread this idea came to my mind. What would it take for Superman to turn to evil? What would it take to break the man of steel?
Injustice tells us that if Lois Lane (and their unborn baby) were to be killed (by him under mind control) he would go evil and never comeback. I disagree with that notion. I do think he would go mad with rage and I'm sure he would have killed the Joker just the way he did. The other stuff he did afterwards is nonsensical and completely out of character. Imo.
I think once Clark Kent reaches maturity once he becomes a man, he won't be corrupted no matter the situation. (unless a magic spell?) I think the only way to corrupt Superman is to have him being raised by someone like Lex Luthor or Darkseid. For him to embrace evil it needs to be fed to him since childhood. The Kents are the key not Lois Lane or anyone he meets later in life no matter how close their relationship may be. Do you see Superman as someone inherently good who would be heroic no matter who raised him? Or do you believe the Kents were key element for him to become the man he is?

Some kind of setup, for sure. Possibly have his mind poisoned in some way. Let's say he has a Kryptonite brain tumor, and doesn't realize it. I think that could effect his emotions, self control, etc. Not neccessarily evil, but insane. Then there's also what I call a Gray Superman in Hernan Guerra (Gods and Monsters) this version involved General Zod hijacking the birthing matrix and fertilizing Lara's egg instead of Jor-El, but he grew up in an illegal immigrant family instead of the Kents, meaning more poverty. While he does not go full tyrant, and he is not Clark Kent/Kal-El, he does kill in a number of situations (stopping terrorists in the embassy, executing the drug lord, killing young Brainiac, etc.) when he feels it will ultimately save lives should he do so.

[Chris24601]

What would it take for Superman to become evil? My guess would be 'come from Earth-Three'... seemed to work for Ultraman.

[superduperman]

I get the impression that if they were to do Injustice background, you would have dead Kent parents, and somehow, he blames himself for not saving the Kents. If there was some kind of Injustice prequel, I would say that would be the likely setup to it.

That's the thing, both his parents are alive in that universe. I've been reading the comic and there's nothing in it yet to indicate anything unusual in his background from a regular version of Superman other than he is friends with Luthor and appears have always been.

[Superlad93]

In the Injustice comic Martha pretty much explains what's the matter with this Clark. Apparently this Clark has a particularly fragile mind. Martha says that he's like a child lashing out because he lost something that was his. She remembers a time when he was a kid, and he lost his ball. He went on a mini rampage and (I think) he hurts Martha. Jor-El calls his son a curse or something like that, and he apologizes for unleashing him on Earth. I also remember Clark talking about hows, as a kid, he didn't sleep for like a few months or something like that because he would sit on top of the house and keep guard. He was scared of something coming and taking away what was his aka the Kents.

Injustice Superman is kinda just a messed up dude, and that's basically the long and short of it. He has a warped concept of what people and relationships are in relation to himself. I'm guessing the idea is that the powers warped this child's way of thinking. He basically never grew out of being a 3 year old because nothing could hurt him and everyone loved him. Whatever was in his way could be moved or broken by him, and because he was the guy everyone loved and he had the biggest gun in town, he was always "in the right."

It's a pretty cynical look at the concept of Superman. If it were in a comic that was made for more than just shock value, then it might actually be a pretty fascinatingly macabre look at the idea.

[superduperman]

In the Injustice comic Martha pretty much explains what's the matter with this Clark. Apparently this Clark has a particularly fragile mind. Martha says that he's like a child lashing out because he lost something that was his. She remembers a time when he was a kid, and he lost his ball. He went on a mini rampage and (I think) he hurts Martha. Jor-El calls his son a curse or something like that, and he apologizes for unleashing him on Earth. I also remember Clark talking about hows, as a kid, he didn't sleep for like a few months or something like that because he would sit on top of the house and keep guard. He was scared of something coming and taking away what was his aka the Kents.

Injustice Superman is kinda just a messed up dude, and that's basically the long and short of it. He has a warped concept of what people and relationships are in relation to himself. I'm guessing the idea is that the powers warped this child's way of thinking. He basically never grew out of being a 3 year old because nothing could hurt him and everyone loved him. Whatever was in his way could be moved or broken by him, and because he was the guy everyone loved and he had the biggest gun in town, he was always "in the right."

It's a pretty cynical look at the concept of Superman. If it were in a comic that was made for more than just shock value, then it might actually be a pretty fascinatingly macabre look at the idea.

Are you thinking of the blanket incident? It's basically his "origin" in that universe. He was a toddler and had a favorite blanket. Then, one day, the dog ran off with it and he got upset. That's when he knocks over the tractor and the Kent's realize he has powers. I'm reading the collected editions so if there is an incident with a ball, I haven't gotten to it yet. What gets me is that universe's Wonder Woman. She seems to relish conquest and forcing her will on others. There's nothing of the "loving sister" that she is supposed to be in the mainstream books. I don't see the mainstream WW doing anything like that. I kind of wonder if the Convergence interpretation of that universe is correct. That it's just an experiment of some version of Brainiac or something.

[Adekis]

Justice Lord was perhaps the most rediculous in the premise. He stopped Lex Luthor from actually starting nuclear war. So basically, he became a tyrant after saving the world, which in abstract thinking, is a little rediculous.

The only thing that can really make "Superman takes over the world" work is if he isn't evil, in my opinion. That's what made Justice Lord Superman interesting- he stopped Luthor from destroying the world, took over, presumably with some degree of public support, and just came to value peace and security over freedom. That's also what made Superman interesting in the earlier Brave New Metropolis. He teamed up with Luthor to enforce public safety, which resulted in Metropolis becoming a police state- but unlike Lord Superman, the instant he realized rights were being trampled he put a stop to it, probably because it was a more subtle and insidious kind of oppression on the Lords' world.

Then think to Red Son Superman. He lives in a world where his natural inclination to populist ideals is saddled with a culture that teaches that the state is the people, and also teaches never to question the state. It's natural that he'd come to work for that state, and from there he takes over once again to make the world a better place- but his "Superman robots" are once more a form of oppression he can overlook because only enemies of the state (read: Superman) are victimized, and none of them are "unhappy" after the fact, much like the lobotomized Arkham patients in A Better World.

Perhaps the best of the dictatorial Supermen is the Nazi Overman, who was literally raised by Hitler! He wasn't present for the Holocaust, didn't become aware of it until it was over, and expressed enormous regret- but still tried to make the current corrupt system work even though he knew it was "a utopia built on corpses". Eventually, he can't succeed in defending his utopia because he knows it's fundamentally a society of bigotry and oppression and thus, subconsciously, wants it to die!

All of these "evil" Superman are fascinating not because they are cruel, malicious, bloodthirsty or unjust, but because they are all good men, trying to do the right thing, and in service to their values, they ignore heinous crimes either on their own part or their societies part, or they ignore massive warning signs for those crimes.

Contrast the Injustice Superman to the one who was literally raised by Hitler, and it becomes obvious that the only reason why Regime Superman is evil is because the writer says so. As Superlad says, Regime Supes is just a terrible person from childhood. There's no defining tragedy. In fact, how could any tragedy really turn Superman evil? He loses Lois in Brave New Metropolis and runs a police state, but he also loses her again and tears the state down! He loses Wally in A Better World, but I don't think that's really what caused him to go bad, it was just a willingness to repeatedly commit atrocities in the name of order. Heck, in Ending Battle, Superman loses Lois and while pissed about it, pretty much sets down that he's going to be the exact same moral hero he'd always been! Only later did he learn that Lois wasn't actually dead. And that's the closest thing to the real, mainline Superman losing Lois that we are ever going to get- a refusal to turn evil. Superman cannot be defined by tragedy, it's practically his definition that he transcends it!

So what turns Superman into a dictator is one question, based highly on circumstance. But what turns him evil? Arbitrary editorial decisions based on ideas so stupid they can't count past five and so edgy they could cut a rock in half.

[Superlad93]

Are you thinking of the blanket incident? It's basically his "origin" in that universe. He was a toddler and had a favorite blanket. Then, one day, the dog ran off with it and he got upset. That's when he knocks over the tractor and the Kent's realize he has powers. I'm reading the collected editions so if there is an incident with a ball, I haven't gotten to it yet. What gets me is that universe's Wonder Woman. She seems to relish conquest and forcing her will on others. There's nothing of the "loving sister" that she is supposed to be in the mainstream books. I don't see the mainstream WW doing anything like that. I kind of wonder if the Convergence interpretation of that universe is correct. That it's just an experiment of some version of Brainiac or something.

Yeah I think that's what I'm thinking of. Martha is explaining all of this, right? He's basically just a man-child who has had something taken from him. And yeah that Wonder Woman is conquest hungry and deceitful.

[Prime]

What about Superboy-Prime? Red Son Superman and Overman wasn't really evil and in the end they regretted their actions. Injustice Superman is a dick.

[Prime]

If there is any version that I would love to see kick Injustice Superman's ass is KC Superman.

[superduperman]

The thing about the Justice Lords concept is that it only works if the entire Justice Leagues gets on board with it. The moment Batman decides he doesn't like this idea, it gets shut down. Even the name, Justice LORDS, is suspicious. It has kind of an evil universe concept to it. Like that universe in Star Trek where the Federation is evil. This is why that episode never sat right with me. One or two getting on board is one thing. All of them is a bit of a stretch. This implies all of them went through a lot of bad stuff we never saw. Which is the only way I can think of for how you get not just one but all of the JL on board with world domination. Or Superman going from good to "evil". Put him through a series of really bad events where he loses EVERYTHING. And even then, in all likelihood, he'd just retire. In terms of Kingdom Come, I always saw him as being led around by the nose by WW. That's twice now she's pushed and/or supported Superman taking over the world. Kind of makes you wonder if she doesn't have a bit of a dictatorial streak in her!