Reasons why Lex Luthor (when he is in villain mode) needs to be evil.

[llozymandias]

1.) Super-heroes are largely defined by their villains. Especially their arch-enemies. Which is why Lex as mis-guided good guy does not work.


2.) "He was a good man, once" actually means something if he is truly evil now.


3.) It's more tragic for Superman. Whenever he confronts his arch-enemy, he remembers the good person who was his best friend. That works better if Lex is basically evil incarnate, as well as someone who can possibly intimidate satan.


4.) A story where Lex does a good deed is more compelling if he is the heart of darkness.

[daBronzeBomma]

1.) Super-heroes are largely defined by their villains. Especially their arch-enemies. Which is why Lex as mis-guided good guy does not work.


2.) "He was a good man, once" actually means something if he is truly evil now.


3.) It's more tragic for Superman. Whenever he confronts his arch-enemy, he remembers the good person who was his best friend. That works better if Lex is basically evil incarnate, as well as someone who can possibly intimidate satan.


4.) A story where Lex does a good deed is more compelling if he is the heart of darkness.

1) Agree to a point. Luthor has be squarely on the side of the demons, not the angels. But I think it vital that Luthor not be a cackling "Oh, I'm so evil!" type fiend.* He has do be much more of a "My Ends Justify Any Means" type of evil. Not as sanctimonious nor as well-intentioned as Magneto, tho.

2) Meh, I prefer a Lex that could have been good once upon a time, or the potential for good was there in him but it was extinguished very early on, and Luthor has never looked back once he crossed his moral Rubicon.

3) I really dislike the idea that Clark and Lex were ever best buddies when they were younger ... mainly b/c then there is no way I can buy Lex not figuring out Clark's secret, no matter his pride might otherwise blind him. I do like the idea presented in ALL-STAR SUPERMAN that the adult Luthor is actually fond of the adult Clark (but definitely not Kal-El) as the (mistaken) ideal sort of human who would need Lex's leadership.

4) True. I go by the idea that Lex Luthor is among the most complex super-villains and the Joker is the among the simplest.


* - Unless it involves Luthor and pies. Him stealing them, specifically. 40 of those pies, to be exact. That would be terrible.

[Adekis]

Conversely, I don't think I ever enjoy Luthor less than when he's just evil. Luthor is arrogant, selfish, manipulative and ruthless, but contradictorily, he must also be humanistic. I'm not interested in his cruelties or his crimes if he does not at every turn (and in his own heart as well as in Superman's mind) have the potential for good, maybe even the desire to do good.

But I guess there's a reason my two favorite versions of Lex are from the Silver/Bronze age and Young Justice. The former Luthor really should have been a hero and only held himself back due to his ego, the latter actually did everything out of a desire to do good- and turn a profit along the way, of course.

Of course, the Young Justice Luthor was mitigated by his terrible, mediocre, incompetent Superman, so thy were never defined in relation to each other, and the Pre-Crisis Luthor was held back by inconsistent writing, as well as a sort of lack of clarity regarding how he percieved his own relationship with both Superman and the world, though Elliot S! Maggin explicitly said that he'd eventually get over it and become friends with Superman.

That's an idea I really like- that the smartest man in the world, who really does want to improve the world and be a hero (while making a profit) can only delude himself into opposing Superman for so long- maybe five years, maybe fifty years, but not forever.

[llozymandias]

Conversely, I don't think I ever enjoy Luthor less than when he's just evil. Luthor is arrogant, selfish, manipulative and ruthless, but contradictorily, he must also be humanistic. I'm not interested in his cruelties or his crimes if he does not at every turn (and in his own heart as well as in Superman's mind) have the potential for good, maybe even the desire to do good.

But I guess there's a reason my two favorite versions of Lex are from the Silver/Bronze age and Young Justice. The former Luthor really should have been a hero and only held himself back due to his ego, the latter actually did everything out of a desire to do good- and turn a profit along the way, of course.

Of course, the Young Justice Luthor was mitigated by his terrible, mediocre, incompetent Superman, so thy were never defined in relation to each other, and the Pre-Crisis Luthor was held back by inconsistent writing, as well as a sort of lack of clarity regarding how he percieved his own relationship with both Superman and the world, though Elliot S! Maggin explicitly said that he'd eventually get over it and become friends with Superman.

That's an idea I really like- that the smartest man in the world, who really does want to improve the world and be a hero (while making a profit) can only delude himself into opposing Superman for so long- maybe five years, maybe fifty years, but not forever.

My favorite Luthor is Jerry Siegel's Luthor. Luthor's main creator wrote him as an evil super-genius super-scientist who wanted to conquer the universe. If not the multiverse or omniverse.

[llozymandias]

1) Agree to a point. Luthor has be squarely on the side of the demons, not the angels. But I think it vital that Luthor not be a cackling "Oh, I'm so evil!" type fiend.* He has do be much more of a "My Ends Justify Any Means" type of evil. Not as sanctimonious nor as well-intentioned as Magneto, tho.

2) Meh, I prefer a Lex that could have been good once upon a time, or the potential for good was there in him but it was extinguished very early on, and Luthor has never looked back once he crossed his moral Rubicon.

3) I really dislike the idea that Clark and Lex were ever best buddies when they were younger ... mainly b/c then there is no way I can buy Lex not figuring out Clark's secret, no matter his pride might otherwise blind him. I do like the idea presented in ALL-STAR SUPERMAN that the adult Luthor is actually fond of the adult Clark (but definitely not Kal-El) as the (mistaken) ideal sort of human who would need Lex's leadership.

4) True. I go by the idea that Lex Luthor is among the most complex super-villains and the Joker is the among the simplest.


* - Unless it involves Luthor and pies. Him stealing them, specifically. 40 of those pies, to be exact. That would be terrible.

1.) I agree here. He is a scientist & a conquerer.


2.) I think the potential for good is still there. It's just buried so deep it almost never appears.


3.) Lex & Clark as friends started with Smallville. In the silver & bronze ages Lex was friends with Superboy, not Clark. It seemed that to Lex rarely interacted with Clark. And those interactions were mostly in passing.


4.) I can go along with this.



It would have been ok if he only stole 39 pies. But, omg he stole 40, worst most evil crime ever!

[Persona J]

Lex and Clark actually were friends pre-Crisis (Lex was even a lab partner of Clark's in one story), but it's true that his main friendship was with Superboy.

To be honest, I like the idea of Lex ending up a hero in the main continuity. I think the fact that the New 52 Superman actually inspired Lex to truly give up being a villain and become a hero himself should be kept. If they have to bring in a new Lex, so be it, but I think that if the New 52 Superman doesn't come back then the heroic Lex Luthor should stand as one of his greatest accomplishments.

[llozymandias]

Lex and Clark actually were friends pre-Crisis (Lex was even a lab partner of Clark's in one story), but it's true that his main friendship was with Superboy.

To be honest, I like the idea of Lex ending up a hero in the main continuity. I think the fact that the New 52 Superman actually inspired Lex to truly give up being a villain and become a hero himself should be kept. If they have to bring in a new Lex, so be it, but I think that if the New 52 Superman doesn't come back then the heroic Lex Luthor should stand as one of his greatest accomplishments.

Playing the hero role does not automatically make Lex a godd guy. If i read it right Lex is playing hero (& wearing the "S" emblem) to show that he can do it better than Superman ever could. Also keep in mind; Lex loves challenges. He probably found it boring being a villain without a worthy opponent, like he had in Superman.

[13th Superman]

I've always viewed Lex as a Doc Savage & Tom Strong type whose ego always got the better of him. He genuinely whats to benefit humanity but only believes himself capable. Kind of like Plato's Republic with the cave and the light. He's isolated himself with his brilliance and when he tries to share the light or the "torch" with the rest of humanity, he becomes an outcast. He continues to try to advance humanity thinking that the rest of us will catch up but at present we see his actions as villainy. I seriously believe he could head his own book.

[Persona J]

Playing the hero role does not automatically make Lex a godd guy. If i read it right Lex is playing hero (& wearing the "S" emblem) to show that he can do it better than Superman ever could. Also keep in mind; Lex loves challenges. He probably found it boring being a villain without a worthy opponent, like he had in Superman.

None of which negates any good that Lex does. The fact is, New 52 Superman succeeded where most versions of Superman have failed, in that he actually got Lex to commit to doing good. This isn't a small feat, given Lex's ego and narcissism.