Is Spider-Man wrong to have a social life?

[Spidercide]

Given how psychopaths like Venom and Norman Osborn used to know Peter’s identity and where to find him, were Peter and/or Mary Jane out of character or being irresponsible by maintaining social lives and personal relationships back before the mindwipe?

For example is Peter being irresponsible or immoral in taking a teaching position when he knows Norman Osborn is out there and might target those children?

Or is Mary Jane being irresponsible in letting her younger cousin babysit Normie Osborn?

Or were both them being irresponsible in Renew Your Vows #1 given what happened with Venom?

If this is the case does this not eviscerate the characters in question in addition to other superheroes in similar situations?

[Mister Mets]

One factor is that he may be able to save more lives because of the improvement having a social life makes on his mental health. The individuals who interact with him regularly might not want to make that tradeoff, though.

Another is that the people who know his identity could be worse. Venom had a code against hurting innocents. Norman Osborn was dead for several years.

Peter also doesn't see being a superhero as something he can keep on doing forever.

[Celgress]

Hmmm the way I see it. If you say make friends with somebody like Spawn or one of the Ninja Turtles you know the risks involved up front. In the case of say Peter Parker or Bruce Wayne it is a different matter entirely. You have no idea about their dual identities and the possible ramifications that being their friend might bring. In such instances the emphasis is on the person with the secret identity to do everything within his or her power to protect those they care for.

[Spidercide]

One factor is that he may be able to save more lives because of the improvement having a social life makes on his mental health. The individuals who interact with him regularly might not want to make that tradeoff, though.

Another is that the people who know his identity could be worse. Venom had a code against hurting innocents. Norman Osborn was dead for several years.

Peter also doesn't see being a superhero as something he can keep on doing forever.

Well I dunno if he has a retirment plan. ASM #500 more or less implied he'd be being a hero until he falls in the line of duty.

And whilst Venom and Norman weren't on his radar when say he married Mary Jane they neither he nor MJ seemed all that fussed about them when they did present themselves as threats to themselves and those around them.

And Peter didn't spare much thought towards the well being of his students if he were to be targeted by any of his enemies. Norman crashed a truck into his school. Venom attacked out of the blue in Marvel Knights and Doc Ock attacked the school during Civil War although granted he only did that because Peter idiotically revealed his identity.

I'm not saying this confiorms Peter is an asshole, I'm just trying to raise a discussion on the topic, maybe come up with an explanation for this which doesn't paint the characters negatively, that sort of thing.

[Spidercide]

Hmmm the way I see it. If you say make friends with somebody like Spawn or one of the Ninja Turtles you know the risks involved up front. In the case of say Peter Parker or Bruce Wayne it is a different matter entirely. You have no idea about their dual identities and the possible ramifications that being their friend might bring. In such instances the emphasis is on the person with the secret identity to do everything within his or her power to protect those they care for.

That doesn't address the questions though.

[SuperiorIronman]

A cop risks a criminal wanting revenge on them or their family and yet cops still maintain social lives, the same could be applied to superheroes.

There is always risks that a criminal might want revenge. When Peter decided to be Spider-man I really doubt he would have thought about how it would influence everyone around him provided someone discovered who he was. As such when he had been at it for a few years and a number of villains know who he is, the cat is out of the bag at that point. Is it irresponsible though? No, no it isn't. It's irresponsible for him not to consider who being a vigilante would affect, but he was a teenager when he started and of course wouldn't think too heavily on that. By the time he was an adult he already had some sort of balance in his personal life, and while it wasn't always perfect between it and Spider-man things for the most part had been separate. Is a cop in the wrong for living near an area he regularly patrols? Bad things happen but you can't always blame that on a social life as sometimes things just hit the fan.

[Confuzzled]

A cop risks a criminal wanting revenge on them or their family and yet cops still maintain social lives, the same could be applied to superheroes.

There is always risks that a criminal might want revenge. When Peter decided to be Spider-man I really doubt he would have thought about how it would influence everyone around him provided someone discovered who he was. As such when he had been at it for a few years and a number of villains know who he is, the cat is out of the bag at that point. Is it irresponsible though? No, no it isn't. It's irresponsible for him not to consider who being a vigilante would affect, but he was a teenager when he started and of course wouldn't think too heavily on that. By the time he was an adult he already had some sort of balance in his personal life, and while it wasn't always perfect between it and Spider-man things for the most part had been separate. Is a cop in the wrong for living near an area he regularly patrols? Bad things happen but you can't always blame that on a social life as sometimes things just hit the fan.

Yup, this was the point raised in Brian K Vaughan's Ex Machina against the whole "Superheroes are endangering loved ones by keeping them close" conceit. Except EM went in harder and actually called the notion insulting to officers who balance both a social/familial life and risk making some big enemies.

Also, MJ explained it perfectly at the end of Spider-Man 2:

[Mister Mets]

A cop risks a criminal wanting revenge on them or their family and yet cops still maintain social lives, the same could be applied to superheroes.

There is always risks that a criminal might want revenge. When Peter decided to be Spider-man I really doubt he would have thought about how it would influence everyone around him provided someone discovered who he was. As such when he had been at it for a few years and a number of villains know who he is, the cat is out of the bag at that point. Is it irresponsible though? No, no it isn't. It's irresponsible for him not to consider who being a vigilante would affect, but he was a teenager when he started and of course wouldn't think too heavily on that. By the time he was an adult he already had some sort of balance in his personal life, and while it wasn't always perfect between it and Spider-man things for the most part had been separate. Is a cop in the wrong for living near an area he regularly patrols? Bad things happen but you can't always blame that on a social life as sometimes things just hit the fan.

There are some differences between cops and superheroes.

In the real world (at least the United States) criminals very rarely go after the families and friends of cops, partly because such an action would piss off everyone (law enforcement would redouble their efforts with the full support of the public; criminal organizations would be chasing the crook as if he were Peter Loore in M.)

Superheroes often deal with different types of enemies, nasty types that don't exist in the same level of in the real world.

[Celgress]

That doesn't address the questions though.

Yes it does. I'm saying people such as Peter Parker must be very cautious about their social life. I think they can still have one, but they must balance their own needs against the jeopardy they may put others in.

[SuperiorIronman]

There are some differences between cops and superheroes.

In the real world (at least the United States) criminals very rarely go after the families and friends of cops, partly because such an action would piss off everyone (law enforcement would redouble their efforts with the full support of the public; criminal organizations would be chasing the crook as if he were Peter Loore in M.)

Superheroes often deal with different types of enemies, nasty types that don't exist in the same level of in the real world.

It was simply the nearest comparison I could make to the real world. It's probably not that common in the United States (the world I wouldn't know about) given the circumstances it would require, but at the end of the day we are talking about a comic book character who regularly engages in this kind of thing so I'm standing by what I said.

[Confuzzled]

There are some differences between cops and superheroes.

In the real world (at least the United States) criminals very rarely go after the families and friends of cops, partly because such an action would piss off everyone (law enforcement would redouble their efforts with the full support of the public; criminal organizations would be chasing the crook as if he were Peter Loore in M.)

Superheroes often deal with different types of enemies, nasty types that don't exist in the same level of in the real world.

Not really. The only reason comic book supervillains go after a superhero's loved ones so much is because of a writer's lazy tendency to fall back on the tired old damsel in distress/family in trouble trope. I know that the trope helps make the supporting character a part of a story sequence that they otherwise may not be a part of, like a climax battle scene, but it's been so exhausted at this point that it's time to retire it completely/use it incredibly sparingly.

[Mister Mets]

Well I dunno if he has a retirment plan. ASM #500 more or less implied he'd be being a hero until he falls in the line of duty.

And whilst Venom and Norman weren't on his radar when say he married Mary Jane they neither he nor MJ seemed all that fussed about them when they did present themselves as threats to themselves and those around them.

And Peter didn't spare much thought towards the well being of his students if he were to be targeted by any of his enemies. Norman crashed a truck into his school. Venom attacked out of the blue in Marvel Knights and Doc Ock attacked the school during Civil War although granted he only did that because Peter idiotically revealed his identity.

I'm not saying this confiorms Peter is an asshole, I'm just trying to raise a discussion on the topic, maybe come up with an explanation for this which doesn't paint the characters negatively, that sort of thing.

The best explanation might be that Peter would not be able to function without the outlet that his social life provides, so that the risk to those around him is a worthwhile tradeoff, although that's still a decision most of them are not in a position to make.

It's a bit like the question of whether driverless cars should be programmed to kill their driver if it will save more lives.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...ammed-to-kill/

Not really. The only reason comic book supervillains go after a superhero's loved ones so much is because of a writer's lazy tendency to fall back on the tired old damsel in distress/family in trouble trope. I know that the trope helps make the supporting character a part of a story sequence that they otherwise may not be a part of, like a climax battle scene, but it's been so exhausted at this point that it's time to retire it completely/use it incredibly sparingly.

Well, whether writers make the correct decision, these are the types of enemies superheroes face.

I think it's more than a trope, since a big part of fiction is putting characters in extreme situations, to see what they would do when pushed to the absolute limit.

The problem with serial fiction is that these situations can add up.

[theoneandonly]

well actually it's impossible to find a explanation for this issue as the best of the times when the villains find out your identity then you are in for a world of trouble as is evident when Cain used the knowledge of batmans secret identity to frame him for murder and the poor girlfriend had to pay with her life for the frame up to work. this is evident even in the case of the fantastic four where their headquarters are always under attack and the kids are jeopardize due to it to the extent that the social services paid them a visit. so it is one of the morally ambiguous situations where the best answer is that they should know better but ultimately they are humans who have their own lives to lead and social needs which cannot be ignored. after all it is not a perfect world.

[phantom1592]

And whilst Venom and Norman weren't on his radar when say he married Mary Jane they neither he nor MJ seemed all that fussed about them when they did present themselves as threats to themselves and those around them.

Ohhhhh those early Venom stories addressed it. MJ was traumatized and Peter went into hiding and tried to protect his family every time he heard Brock was back on the streets.

The best explanation might be that Peter would not be able to function without the outlet that his social life provides, so that the risk to those around him is a worthwhile tradeoff, although that's still a decision most of them are not in a position to make.

Captain America did pretty well for years without much of a social life. He'd had multiple writers and multiple series... but 'Steve Rogers' civilian life was drastically underdeveloped. It was usually Cap fighting Serpent Society.... Cap working with SHIELD... Cap hanging out with the Avengers... Cap doing some intense training routine... But Steve's personal non-superpowered life? He had a couple of girlfriends just to show how he always put being Cap first... but not a whole lot there.

Bruce Wayne is another. Most of his BW action is just to keep up appearances.

Peter?? He's a bit more social and Stan wanted to show off his girl trouble from the beginning... but honestly? The whole loner nerd doing experiments in the attic?? Peter COULD be the kind of hero who doesn't socialize at all outside of his aunt and other superheroes.... It just wouldn't be as good reading.

[Mister Mets]

He might not have it in him to function as a loner nerd.