The "failure" of New 52 Superman: What happened?

[Sacred Knight]

Huh? His run established villains and details of the new origin, it didn't require villains and an intricate origin already be established to work. The new Xa-Du didn't have to be already established, the story established him. It didn't have to already be established that Jonathan and Martha died in a car accident, the story established it...and so on and so forth.

[Myskin]

New52 Superman failed for a variety of reasons. Most of the writers didn't really know what to do with him, and every time they put him in never-before-seen situations which could have been potentially revolutionary (WW, Truth), they never really knew how to resolve them.

However, IMHO the very foundation of the character was weak in the first place. It may be because of editorial interference, but IMHO Morrison wasn't entirely sure of what he was doing to begin with. He didn't really explore new territories. Whenever he did so (the rocket as a narrator, President Superman), the character was way more intriguing (except when the new ideas weren't so good - I think that we can all agree that having Vyndktvx as the killer of Kents was a bad idea - and personally speaking, even if I liked the jeans look, I wasn't a fan of the cape - I think that Pak shares my opinion, since he erased the cape in his zero year issue). But Morrison never really wrote this way on a regular basis, and the whole social crusader part was unconvincing. It is vaguely mentioned in a couple of issue at the beginning of his run, and completely forgotten in subsequent issues.

More than anything, every important idea explored in his opening arc had already appeared in earlier retelling of the origins. Superman as an outsider, Sam Lane as a main player working with Luthor, Metallo as an ex-soldier in love with Lois Lane: been there, done that in Johns' Secret Origins. And the Collector of Worlds arc is almost a retelling of Johns' Brainiac saga. Except that Morrison's Brainiac is aesthetically even uglier than musclebound Brainiac (which I don't really like, either). Seriously, am I the only one who sees this http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20120314131436
and thinks of this
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20111130160039
?

There are some morrisonisms here and there - there are some decent parts and even some good parts - but everything is too linear for what a Morrison comics is supposed to be, or incredibly confusing and contradictory. No middle ground.

Superman himself isn't entirely convincing. Morrison never really explores the sense of his mission, his desire to help people. There isn't a "year-one"- type story arc who shows how his ethics is born. Yes, I get it, it's action comics and he puts him in action from the very first page. But since he doesn't give him a proper background, the character cannot be strong and convincing in later stories.

If Morrison had created something organically, incredibly different from what we had seen in the pre-new52 stories, maybe New52 Superman would have been more successful. Maybe an All-Star approach, or maybe a Superman who could seriously be an aspiring social crusader. Or maybe a Superman who had come to earth in 1938 - these are just some examples. But new52 Superman was basically the same character than pre-new52, with some nice touches here and there, a great potential (as usual) and some points who weren't fully developed or integrated in the new continuity.

[Tayswift]

New 52 Superman failed because of inconsistency. There was no consistent characterization, world building, or storytelling. New 52 Superman failed because DC never knew who they wanted that character to be, so the result was that he was everything and nothing.

there wasn't any big plan for him, just crossovers to get sales up and then the sales went down again

Grant Morrison's reinvention and run wasn't really good to begin with.

Writers just continued that trend.

yeah, Morrison origin was MEH. tried to be very edgy on the beggining, then introduced a lot of things and did some 5th dimension shenanigans. it just ended confusing.
I was on 20 years old when reading it, just read some superman comics before. And new52 didn't catch me. It was trying to hard to be "not that boring superman' and ended being very boring too.

my fave story from new 52 was unchained, so not even from a main book it was. The rest is pretty average or even below average;

I'm pretty sure that put the fault on green lantern and batman not rebooting (Batman really rebooted too, so not even that) is get out on a tangent. it didn't afffected anyone perception about other books

[Lokimaru]

I think people never warmed up to him because he looks too Young, It's the same Problem Brandon Routh ran into. People just like seeing a more Mature looking Man of Steel.

[Lokimaru]

I wonder what the Internet would have thought of Bryne's run on Superman and some of what came out of it at the time like him killing Pocket Zod, going crazy because of it and exiling himself from Earth. Would people have come down on it like they do on Truth? (Can a Mod merge this with my other post I made this by mistake.)

[Sacred Knight]

The reaction to just the reboot itself would have been insane if there was social media to record it back then. That was 50 years of stuff plus it had never been done before.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

I wonder what the Internet would have thought of Bryne's run on Superman and some of what came out of it at the time like him killing Pocket Zod, going crazy because of it and exiling himself from Earth. Would people have come down on it like they do on Truth? (Can a Mod merge this with my other post I made this by mistake.)

Indubiously.

If Bryne's reboot had taken place now instead of the 80s, I think the online reaction would be worse than what happened with New 52 Superman.

[manofsteel1979]

Indubiously.

If Bryne's reboot had taken place now instead of the 80s, I think the online reaction would be worse than what happened with New 52 Superman.

I'm not sure if it would have been quite as bad overall in terms of reaction,but I guarantee the Phantom Zoners being killed would have set the net on fire,as would the gangbuster reveal leading up to and including Exile.

[Last Son of Krypton]

These are the same guys though who can't make a decision and keep a decision for more than six months at a time. They have a history of flip-flopping endlessly on what they want. I think at the time they genuinely wanted to lose the marriage.

Well, Jim Lee has already talked in the past about how he sees Superman, and the Superman he has in mind is certainly not the post-Crisis guy. DiDio seems the one that change his mind based on fan reactions. Rebirth is basically a result of this mindset, give what they want to those who hated some initial choices of the reboot.

“We were able to take a lot of the success we had with New 52,” DiDio said, “and then bring back some of the fans who might have felt a little disenfranchised from some of the choices that were made in the New 52 launch.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2016/.../?sf34846486=1

That would explain why they've brought back something that they didn't want in the first place, to appease certain fans. For the moment, the addition of Jon, allows to circumvent the problems that they had about the marriage because they shift the focus from the relationship with Lois to the father-son relationship with Jon.

[Ascended]

I wonder what the Internet would have thought of Bryne's run on Superman and some of what came out of it at the time like him killing Pocket Zod, going crazy because of it and exiling himself from Earth. Would people have come down on it like they do on Truth? (Can a Mod merge this with my other post I made this by mistake.)

I think if social media had been around back then the blowback would have cracked the internet in half and scared DC so badly they would have doubled-back within the first three years, never to do it again.

I mean, the likely reaction seems pretty obvious. They make a small change to a character now like, say, shaving off Green Arrow's goatee, and people freak out. The changes Bryne introduced were often far bigger, and ran much deeper, than Ollie discovering a razor and shaving cream. And many of those changes went against fifty years of Super-history. No way it would have gotten a free pass just because Bryne was at the height of his popularity. It didnt save Morrison in 2011, it wouldnt have saved Bryne in 1986.

As for where Nuperman went wrong, I think it went wrong from the start. Perez didn't know what Morrison was planning and couldn't write a story that built off Action's origin. Management and editorial screwed with Perez on a daily basis. Johns was fully into the habit of doing whatever he wanted with little regard for the shared continuity he was working in. There was no communication between writers and DC's heavy-handed editorial was in full swing on the Super-books.

As others have said, the marketing was a turn off. DC put a lot of effort into throwing around phrases like "He's less human! More edgy! Different! Not your daddy's Superman!" and ultimately none of those things were true, but how many people left without giving the books the benefit of the doubt because of that over-hyped BS?

Endless, needless crossovers. No consistency in approach or world building or characterization. While Pak was building off Morrison's origin, Snyder was writing a post-Crisis Superman in Unchained and so on. Supporting cast was split across the books, with certain people accessible to certain writers, so we never got to see Lana, Lois, Jim, Shay Veritas, etc, in the same title unless it was happening in a big, stupid crossover where the character moments, if they happened at all, were overshadowed by the convoluted and drawn-out plots.

Editors couldnt decide what they wanted. They told Lobdell to go ahead on his Clark Kent: Blogger story, then told him almost immediately afterwards to drop it so far into the background it ceased to exist.

Poor management and worse editing combined with a slipshod start to the entire New52 reboot process caused Nuperman's downfall. Which is a shame because there was a lot of potential there, from the pre-Crisis trappings and parallels to the social commentary.

The worst part is that the same people are in charge today that were in change in 2011, and those are largely the same guys who screwed Superman up in the first place in the 00's. So while the current titles might be off to a solid start, you gotta wonder how long that'll last? I think perhaps a bit longer than Nuperman, since the Rebirth had the benefit of proper planning (at least more than the 52 did), but given the mess of Nuperman's death and Superdad replacing him, I dont believe sales will stay good for long.

[manofsteel1979]

there wasn't any big plan for him, just crossovers to get sales up and then the sales went down again



yeah, Morrison origin was MEH. tried to be very edgy on the beggining, then introduced a lot of things and did some 5th dimension shenanigans. it just ended confusing.
I was on 20 years old when reading it, just read some superman comics before. And new52 didn't catch me. It was trying to hard to be "not that boring superman' and ended being very boring too.

my fave story from new 52 was unchained, so not even from a main book it was. The rest is pretty average or even below average;

I'm pretty sure that put the fault on green lantern and batman not rebooting (Batman really rebooted too, so not even that) is get out on a tangent. it didn't afffected anyone perception about other books

I wasn't putting the fault on Batman and Green Lantern. I was saying that not rebooting those franchises to the degree they rebooted everything else gave the perception that the New 52 was just a sales stunt and not the permanent new status quo that the 1986 reboot,for all it's foibles,did give that feeling of taking it seriously. It and the lack of game plan just showed DC' s lack of commitment to the whole enterprise,which with the slow but almost certain reversion to a continuity that is much like preFlashpoint,bore out the stunt nature of the whole thing. It almost feels like DC knew they'd be reverting to some degree eventually and didn't put much thought into it all.

[Lokimaru]

there wasn't any big plan for him, just crossovers to get sales up and then the sales went down again



yeah, Morrison origin was MEH. tried to be very edgy on the beggining, then introduced a lot of things and did some 5th dimension shenanigans. it just ended confusing.
I was on 20 years old when reading it, just read some superman comics before. And new52 didn't catch me. It was trying to hard to be "not that boring superman' and ended being very boring too.

my fave story from new 52 was unchained, so not even from a main book it was. The rest is pretty average or even below average;

I'm pretty sure that put the fault on green lantern and batman not rebooting (Batman really rebooted too, so not even that) is get out on a tangent. it didn't afffected anyone perception about other books

How was Morrison's Origin Edgy? He just retold Golden Age Superman Stories in the modren era. How is jumping off roof with Glenmorgen any different then running on power lines with a politician? The End result is the same. NuSupes was a self made Superhero, I love that HE came up with his look and philosophy unlike other Supermen. I hate how Mr. "Oz" (See I can do quotes too) is Claiming to have trained him. WHEN? We've seen New 52 Superman from the moment he was BORN, Hell we've seen him Before he was Born when Lara was still Pregnant. We've seen his time with the Kents, With the Legion, with Pete and Lana, After his Parents Died, When he got to Metropolis, When he first put on the S, when he got his Suit, when he learned to fly, when he met the Justice League, Ect. WHEN THE F DID YOU TRAIN HIM! Hell I believe Lana training him more then this Jagoff.

[hellacre]

How was Morrison's Origin Edgy? He just retold Golden Age Superman Stories in the modren era. How is jumping off roof with Glenmorgen any different then running on power lines with a politician? The End result is the same. NuSupes was a self made Superhero, I love that HE came up with his look and philosophy unlike other Supermen. I hate how Mr. "Oz" (See I can do quotes too) is Claiming to have trained him. WHEN? We've seen New 52 Superman from the moment he was BORN, Hell we've seen him Before he was Born when Lara was still Pregnant. We've seen his time with the Kents, With the Legion, with Pete and Lana, After his Parents Died, When he got to Metropolis, When he first put on the S, when he got his Suit, when he learned to fly, when he met the Justice League, Ect. WHEN THE F DID YOU TRAIN HIM! Hell I believe Lana training him more then this Jagoff.

This is why Rebirth Superman is at risk of ending in a mess in the long term. DC can try to sweep new 52 Superman under the carpet I guess but the reality is this is a cheat and when the hype and the novelty of being a new Superman dies down...because face it that is all Superdad's stories are revolving around...the stranger thrown into a new land. This also applies to Jon...because if Jon was organically born in this world or even if this was pre new 52 his and Damien's story prob would not be the two strange boys meeting for the first time. Those two if they were indeed peers prob would have grown up knowing each other given the relationship their fathers had. This is why DC has to shift goal posts, jump through hoops, force the narrative to work or ask its audience to forget and just accept what we know never happened.

People critique Morrison's run but willing to accept this last minute made up convoluted mess about Mr Oz is ironic to me.

[Superlad93]

I hate how Mr. "Oz" (See I can do quotes too) is Claiming to have trained him. WHEN? We've seen New 52 Superman from the moment he was BORN, Hell we've seen him Before he was Born when Lara was still Pregnant. We've seen his time with the Kents, With the Legion, with Pete and Lana, After his Parents Died, When he got to Metropolis, When he first put on the S, when he got his Suit, when he learned to fly, when he met the Justice League, Ect. WHEN THE F DID YOU TRAIN HIM!

There's like 4 and a half years of continuity that DC didn't bother to fill in. All the points in time you brought up are mostly one and done moments that don't flesh out this character's history in any real way.

This really just highlights the issues of the New 52 Superman. It was a Superman that was *supposed* to be totally new. It was *supposed* to create a new and contemporary world for him to play in. It was *supposed* to build him from the ground up. But it didn't. They only had one foot in the pool.

DC could easily say that Oz had been training Nuperman during the 4 and a half gap, and then cleaned away the particulars of the memories. And you know what? Because that 4 and a half year gap is SO wide and full of assumptions, we have nothing to contradict it.

[Superlad93]

because face it that is all Superdad's stories are revolving around...the stranger thrown into a new land.

I don't think this is true. It's almost actively fought against by the books and the writers. The draw and the push seems to come from the idea that "SUPERMAN is back." They seem to want to make his transition as quick as possible. If they were interested in the idea "stranger thrown in a new land" then they probably wouldn't have the character Bibo literally say "he's no strange visitor." The appeal and the focus of the writers doesn't even seem to be in the past of this Superman. It seems to be squarely on what stories there might be going forward.